Preview Round 9, 2021: Hawks v Roos, 2:10pm 15th May @ UTAS

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Mercy Seat

Premiership Player
Sep 23, 2008
3,603
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he was cooked 4 years ago, he's extra crispy now, i started getting into u18 footy because it was too painful watching us be crap since 2017 and being yelled at every time i said we should plan for the future, but now im depressed watching my beloved hawks play, at least a few goals gives me small moments of happiness and the fact we are finally going to the draft, the way we treat list management for the last 6 or so years has been so crappy no wonder we are now dealing with the situation of barely having a good enough 22 playing for Hawthorn and not much else at BHH.
He was 25 turning 26 4 years ago, pretty young to be cooked.... I think he’s been one of our most consistent and hardest working throughout this dry spell, but he has certainly dropped a level this year.
 

TP86

Club Legend
Apr 16, 2010
1,161
1,270
AFL Club
Hawthorn
This is the least I've looked forward to a game in a very long time. Probably not since some of the do or die games in 2009/10/11 where we were in the gun for underperforming.
 

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View from the nosebleed

A place to discuss all things sport.
Aug 11, 2019
359
532
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Hawthorn
In: OMeara, Gunston, Brockman
Out: Moore, Howe, and Shiels.

Gunston plays wing/forward, Brockman replacing Moore as small forward, and OMeara for Shiels.

I'd like to see Jeka play in a game where we might have a chance of winning through the midfield. He moves well, attacks the footy and presents often. We need more of it.
 

The hands of stone

Club Legend
Sep 13, 2020
1,237
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North try to move the ball quickly and make a lot of mistakes , will come down to who make the other side pay.
We are so low on confidence I'm just not sure we will.

If we get Gunston and JOM back, I think we cover them.
Think itll be tight though .
 

Mrzohs

Club Legend
Oct 9, 2014
2,900
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North try to move the ball quickly and make a lot of mistakes , will come down to who make the other side pay.
We are so low on confidence I'm just not sure we will.

If we get Gunston and JOM back, I think we cover them.
Think itll be tight though .
I agree with this I watched the North game they actually move it alot quicker. But poor turnovers and bad decisions.

We should have them covered down back.
What scares me is our ball movement, starting to turn into a r.lyon coached team due to our personal.

I Would love to See Dermie or Dunstall working with our young fwds. Body work,leading pattern, marking in the contest! It's very hard for them we don't have one fwd over 6,3 with a mature body to take the best defender.
 

darthmann

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Jun 11, 2013
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Out... Tom Mitchell.

Or at least out of the centre. I'm sorry but just cause he gets high possession numbers, doesn't make for a good game. 10 kicks and 31 handballs, 272 metres gained, with the majority of ball gained in the back half is dreadful. He has been like this for a while now. Fear that when Omeara comes back in, Worpel gets pushed out.
i specifically watched his game closely based on this criticism last week and this is simply based on preconceptions of his ability to kick and dispose of the ball and not on what actually happened. I recommend you watch the game again and keep an eye on his possessions

1). i did not see him miss a target by foot. there was one kick that was a bit loopy but 7-8 of his 10 were forwards, hitting a target, and quite often in the middle of the ground. If he didn't pinpoint, he was kicking it inside 50 or down the line about 50 metres — perhaps not ideal but certainly dispelling the notion that he just daintily chips it around the backline sideways and backwards

2). he loses most of his 'metres gained' because he handpasses backwards or sideways. he does this to release the outside players. watch him look for ball users like Wingard, Scrimshaw, Hardwick etc. He is the key to unlocking our run and carry, the problem is we lack the cohesion to get it going properly. He is averaging less kicks than he normally would, so that is a fair criticism.

3). He also made a number of good defensive plays (i think he had 2 intercept marks?) which is unusual for him. 17 of his touches were contested (the highest in the game), so to have an 82% Disposal Efficiency is very good. To contrast, Worpel (10 contested) had 70%, Sheed and Redden (15/12 contested) both 77%. He even had a higher DE than Gaff. He covered the ground extremely well. As did Worpel, from what I saw, though I didn't watch him as closely.

this was the best I've seen him with his disposal since 2018. I understand (though disagree) with the criticism of him generally, but not based on his game vs WC. He was great.
 

savagelunchbox

I'm being followed by a moonshadow.
Jan 4, 2011
10,440
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i specifically watched his game closely based on this criticism last week and this is simply based on preconceptions of his ability to kick and dispose of the ball and not on what actually happened. I recommend you watch the game again and keep an eye on his possessions

1). i did not see him miss a target by foot. there was one kick that was a bit loopy but 7-8 of his 10 were forwards, hitting a target, and quite often in the middle of the ground. If he didn't pinpoint, he was kicking it inside 50 or down the line about 50 metres — perhaps not ideal but certainly dispelling the notion that he just daintily chips it around the backline sideways and backwards

2). he loses most of his 'metres gained' because he handpasses backwards or sideways. he does this to release the outside players. watch him look for ball users like Wingard, Scrimshaw, Hardwick etc. He is the key to unlocking our run and carry, the problem is we lack the cohesion to get it going properly. He is averaging less kicks than he normally would, so that is a fair criticism.

3). He also made a number of good defensive plays (i think he had 2 intercept marks?) which is unusual for him. 17 of his touches were contested (the highest in the game), so to have an 82% Disposal Efficiency is very good. To contrast, Worpel (10 contested) had 70%, Sheed and Redden (15/12 contested) both 77%. He even had a higher DE than Gaff. He covered the ground extremely well. As did Worpel, from what I saw, though I didn't watch him as closely.

this was the best I've seen him with his disposal since 2018. I understand (though disagree) with the criticism of him generally, but not based on his game vs WC. He was great.
All this may be true, but that's not where criticism lies.

Watching him play, there's no denying he's a stoppages beast. It's outside of that is where he loses value and/or impact.

When he gets the ball in general play he doesn't move with the ball more than a few steps. He rarely, if ever, runs with ball in hand. This slows down ball movement if there is no free runner within handball distance. There isn't a stat for this.

When kicking the ball more than 30m, he lacks penetration and his kicks are high, airy and slow. Again, slows down ball movement, especially when factoring in the above. Hard to pin point a 50m kick amongst a full field zone that hangs in the air for too long. There isn't a stat for this either.
(JOM has this problem too, although his drop short rather than hang in the air)

Combine that with our lack of run from his teammates and in the gameplan, it's easy to see why he can get 41 touches and feel like he had little impact.
 

hawkheart

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Jun 27, 2007
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We’ll be right. JOM returning will make a world of difference. Tassie is a handy advantage. And let’s not forget pre-season: North are Kosi’s bunnies.
 

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mustang

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Oct 8, 2004
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We have a percentage of 73.5% and North have a Percentage of 52.7% anyone good with that maths to work out what do we need to lose by for North to over take our Percentage.
 

WWSD

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We have a percentage of 73.5% and North have a Percentage of 52.7% anyone good with that maths to work out what do we need to lose by for North to over take our Percentage.
If we lose our next two games by over 10 goals and North Melbourne win their next two games they will overtake us on the ladder.
 

Todman

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 7, 2004
7,380
6,148
AFL Club
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every time i said we should plan for the future, but now im depressed watching my beloved hawks play, at least a few goals gives me small moments of happiness and the fact we are finally going to the draft, the way we treat list management for the last 6 or so years has been so crappy no wonder we are now dealing with the situation of barely having a good enough 22 playing for Hawthorn and not much else at BHH.
We've behaved like Carlton did 20 years ago. Trade away early picks for role players that only stayed a little while.
 

HODGEYROAD

Brownlow Medallist
May 10, 2007
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This game really could go either way, arguably the 2 worst sides in the comp, JOM and Gunston returning may see us just get over the line.
 

TylerDurden

Premium Platinum
Mar 5, 2007
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Sliding doors moment this. If we lose, have we truly bottomed out, or is there further to go?
If we win, can we start to build towards something for the rest of the year.
I'm fine finishing bottom 4, but the fans want to see competitive performances while getting games into some quality youth. Understand that's not possible at present.
Would adding JOM, Gunston and Shaun help lift the confidence of others around them?
Get the feeling there will be a lot of players yo-yo'ing in and out of the side, week to week this season. Getting the balance right at selection each week is a big challenge.
 

The hands of stone

Club Legend
Sep 13, 2020
1,237
3,123
AFL Club
Hawthorn
i specifically watched his game closely based on this criticism last week and this is simply based on preconceptions of his ability to kick and dispose of the ball and not on what actually happened. I recommend you watch the game again and keep an eye on his possessions

1). i did not see him miss a target by foot. there was one kick that was a bit loopy but 7-8 of his 10 were forwards, hitting a target, and quite often in the middle of the ground. If he didn't pinpoint, he was kicking it inside 50 or down the line about 50 metres — perhaps not ideal but certainly dispelling the notion that he just daintily chips it around the backline sideways and backwards

2). he loses most of his 'metres gained' because he handpasses backwards or sideways. he does this to release the outside players. watch him look for ball users like Wingard, Scrimshaw, Hardwick etc. He is the key to unlocking our run and carry, the problem is we lack the cohesion to get it going properly. He is averaging less kicks than he normally would, so that is a fair criticism.

3). He also made a number of good defensive plays (i think he had 2 intercept marks?) which is unusual for him. 17 of his touches were contested (the highest in the game), so to have an 82% Disposal Efficiency is very good. To contrast, Worpel (10 contested) had 70%, Sheed and Redden (15/12 contested) both 77%. He even had a higher DE than Gaff. He covered the ground extremely well. As did Worpel, from what I saw, though I didn't watch him as closely.

this was the best I've seen him with his disposal since 2018. I understand (though disagree) with the criticism of him generally, but not based on his game vs WC. He was great.
His playing style is an easy target in a poor side who arent playing well.
We just dont have the players currently or confidence to take advantage of his creative handball and stoppage play .
 

The hands of stone

Club Legend
Sep 13, 2020
1,237
3,123
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Sliding doors moment this. If we lose, have we truly bottomed out, or is there further to go?
If we win, can we start to build towards something for the rest of the year.
I'm fine finishing bottom 4, but the fans want to see competitive performances while getting games into some quality youth. Understand that's not possible at present.
Would adding JOM, Gunston and Shaun help lift the confidence of others around them?
Get the feeling there will be a lot of players yo-yo'ing in and out of the side, week to week this season. Getting the balance right at selection each week is a big challenge.
It'll be rock bottom imo. In fact I think our form is currently there .

The thing is noone will be talking about this game in a months time , win , lose or draw.

Our best result for this season is winning 6-7 games which realistically nets us a bottom 4 pick.
Hopefully see Downie and DGB in the back part of the season. Have Day back and be ready for Sicily start 2022.
And weve added games to the others .
 
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