Autopsy Round 9, 2022: St.Kilda v Geelong

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BrutThough

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3- Kolad whatever nish hasnt been cited at all for Higgins concussion? So Ryder stands still and the hawks kid gets concussed (comes off a good 30 minutes later) gets two weeks essentially because a player who ran into him got concussed yet it seems Kolad wont even be looked at? Its not a "saints get the rough end thing" but where is the consistency? Im actually fine with Kolad getting off but i just cant really see how you can say one is two weeks and the other is fine with any sort of consistency on the grading thing.
That incident wasn't what concussed Higgins. It was this incident with Stewart and then he has delayed symptoms.

 

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BrutThough

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Fine, then how can they be sure which one KOd the Hawks player, he stayed on the field for a while after?
They would have gone through the footage and determined the Hawks player wasn't involved in any other physical contests after Paddy bump, and he had delayed symptoms like Higgins experienced.
 

phantom13

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They would have gone through the footage and determined the Hawks player wasn't involved in any other physical contests after Paddy bump, and he had delayed symptoms like Higgins experienced.
Except that we know thats not the case, a few posters pointed out there were a number of other plays he was involved in. Higgins at the very least didnt return after that incident.

Added to that we know that you can be suspended for "potential to injure" which hasnt seemed to ever apply to anyone outside on Ben Long.

Its mental gymnastics to suit whatever narrative the AFL has decided on head contact and the bump this week
 

The Punter

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Stewart gave Higgins some afters post that incident when Higgins was going off.
 

Joffaboy

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Thoughts:

  • Geez I wish Paddy Ryder had been at St Kilda his whole career.
Said that to people at the game on Saturday. Loved him as a player at Essendon. We would have wrecked his career with out 2010-2020 team. So enjoying him in Saints coulours now.
  • Windhager changed things when he got on with how he cracked in but also how composed and creative he was. He may have the entire inside mid package.
Fearless straight line running. That three possession in 10 seconds including a one handed pick up on the fly was awesome. I reckoned he surprised the Cats with his aggressive attack on the ball.

  • Sharman didn't do a lot, but he just knows how to play footy. Finally got to do it in front of a St Kilda crowd.
Yes. I thought he was completely lost at the ground. Saw him on the replay involved much more. They said he was on Stewart for much of the game, a forward tag. If so did his job well. The goal was subline

  • Captain's performance from Seb Ross. Steele injured, Ross stepped up. Playing his best footy of career right now.
Career best form
    • We're getting what we paid for from Brad Crouch.
Career best form
    • Great response from Gresham after the last two weeks.
We forget how important he is to this team. Part of the midfield package.

  • Also, huge response from Sinclair after Cameron decided to try and bully us. Rewatching the third quarter yesterday you could see even an hour later he was still pissed off at Cameron.
Good to see them both having a good laugh together after the game. Go hard, shake hands and have a laugh afterwards.

  • Also, very good second half from Mason Wood.
Wood always seemed to burn us when a forward for North. Thought he was underrated. Couldn't get a good run as he was constantly injured. He himself said he as lucky to get picked up by the Saints and was preparing to life after AFL. Has seemed to overcome his injuries and is getting a game legimately. Wing really suits him.

  • Tackle like Ben Long.

He and Winghager lead the team in the second half with the physical attack on ball and man.
 

Joffaboy

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Except that we know thats not the case, a few posters pointed out there were a number of other plays he was involved in. Higgins at the very least didnt return after that incident.

Added to that we know that you can be suspended for "potential to injure" which hasnt seemed to ever apply to anyone outside on Ben Long.

Its mental gymnastics to suit whatever narrative the AFL has decided on head contact and the bump this week

I think Héritier Lumumba is on to something regarding inherent racism in the AFL. For all the talk the AFL does, still seems like pigmentation of the skin is a possibly unconscious influence on the decisions.

I know I will get burned for this opinion, but racism just doesn't disappear. Name one other player suspended from a final for 'potential for injury'.

Actually name one other player at any time where that has happened. It may not be the case, but we need to maintain and be on the lookout for regression.
 

The Punter

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I think Héritier Lumumba is on to something regarding inherent racism in the AFL. For all the talk the AFL does, still seems like pigmentation of the skin is a possibly unconscious influence on the decisions.

I know I will get burned for this opinion, but racism just doesn't disappear. Name one other player suspended from a final for 'potential for injury'.

Actually name one other player at any time where that has happened. It may not be the case, but we need to maintain and be on the lookout for regression.

Without necessarily disagreeing with your thesis, and although it not being exactly the same, and it being a while ago, Steven Baker was suspended for two weeks in 2006 for "attempting to strike" Greg Stafford.
 

SaintsSeptember

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I think Héritier Lumumba is on to something regarding inherent racism in the AFL. For all the talk the AFL does, still seems like pigmentation of the skin is a possibly unconscious influence on the decisions.

I know I will get burned for this opinion, but racism just doesn't disappear. Name one other player suspended from a final for 'potential for injury'.

Actually name one other player at any time where that has happened. It may not be the case, but we need to maintain and be on the lookout for regression.

FFS Heritier thinks he should be financially compensated for damage done to him from overhearing a racial slight to Adam Goodes.
He's the other side of the problem.
As far as Long goes and with our history at the tribunal, it seems more to be a thing about StKilda football club than race.
 

gringo2011

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I think Héritier Lumumba is on to something regarding inherent racism in the AFL. For all the talk the AFL does, still seems like pigmentation of the skin is a possibly unconscious influence on the decisions.

I know I will get burned for this opinion, but racism just doesn't disappear. Name one other player suspended from a final for 'potential for injury'.

Actually name one other player at any time where that has happened. It may not be the case, but we need to maintain and be on the lookout for regression.


There definitely seems to be a loading for skin colour. Even if it's subconscious. Also a small-team loading and star exemption for some. I heard a guy talking about how they'd studied league games and discovered umpiring favoured the teams that were expected to win over a long period and significantly.

I think being a smaller club and having spent 10 years down the ladder probably contributed to our games being umpired more to the favour of the opposition. I think we also have inherent biases that we don't even recognise exist on top of that. I wouldn't be surprised at all if indigenous guys got more frees paid against them and were hit harder at the tribunal.
 

Armitage2Riewoldt

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Has anyone else noticed that Higgo gets smashed a lot. Like every game? He seems to always be dumped, bumped, kneed in the head, running into a post. I feel like if he's not injured he's sore.

Probably doesn't help with the pace he attacks the footy at, and how small he is.

But yeah, getting Paddy vibes a little. But not sure what he can do about it, really just chance/luck at this point.
 

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gringo2011

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FFS Heritier thinks he should be financially compensated for damage done to him from overhearing a racial slight to Adam Goodes.
He's the other side of the problem.
As far as Long goes and with our history at the tribunal, it seems more to be a thing about StKilda football club than race.


He's a pretty prickly and unlikable character and probably does s**t people more than he brings people around to his view point but squeaky wheels get more s**t done that pleasant conversation. Perhaps Collingwood will come out of this a better organisation from his anger. Buckley seems to have become a very open minded guy and perhaps HL helped that. Bucks seems to have grown a bit from it and I think like Nicky Winmar's stance society gets better if we sort s**t out rather than hide it away.
 

gringo2011

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Has anyone else noticed that Higgo gets smashed a lot. Like every game? He seems to always be dumped, bumped, kneed in the head, running into a post. I feel like if he's not injured he's sore.

Probably doesn't help with the pace he attacks the footy at, and how small he is.

But yeah, getting Paddy vibes a little. But not sure what he can do about it, really just chance/luck at this point.


He's a yapper, I think he winds them up.
 

Saintbloke

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Has anyone else noticed that Higgo gets smashed a lot. Like every game? He seems to always be dumped, bumped, kneed in the head, running into a post. I feel like if he's not injured he's sore.

Probably doesn't help with the pace he attacks the footy at, and how small he is.

But yeah, getting Paddy vibes a little. But not sure what he can do about it, really just chance/luck at this point.
Maybe just needs to change his game as a crumber and stay on the outside a bit more in the forward half- still tries to mark against bigger opponents, which is one way to get crunched above the shoulders.
 

Circus

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Jon Ralph on fox just said Elliott for pies back next week after 6 weeks for same op

#FingersCrossed
It depends on what type of surgery. Apparently there are three different methods of repair, depending on which part of the shoulder/ligaments are injured. Heard Elliot interviewed and he said his nominated surgeon was unavailable so a different surgeon did a different procedure, (wired his shoulder up), that had a different recovery time. We need the best possible surgery for Steele regardless of the recovery time.
 

Joffaboy

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There definitely seems to be a loading for skin colour. Even if it's subconscious. Also a small-team loading and star exemption for some. I heard a guy talking about how they'd studied league games and discovered umpiring favoured the teams that were expected to win over a long period and significantly.

I think being a smaller club and having spent 10 years down the ladder probably contributed to our games being umpired more to the favour of the opposition. I think we also have inherent biases that we don't even recognise exist on top of that. I wouldn't be surprised at all if indigenous guys got more frees paid against them and were hit harder at the tribunal.
More eloquently put than me.

I don't want blithely scream RACIST every time an indigenous player is rubbed out. That is just silly. However as you say, people are people with all their bias, prejudice, and life's experiences.

And as you once put it, Christianson is so dumb he would hardly know which orifice to stuff his sandwich in. He would be too dumb to know he was handling players differently.
 

Joffaboy

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He's a pretty prickly and unlikable character and probably does s**t people more than he brings people around to his view point but squeaky wheels get more s**t done that pleasant conversation. Perhaps Collingwood will come out of this a better organisation from his anger. Buckley seems to have become a very open minded guy and perhaps HL helped that. Bucks seems to have grown a bit from it and I think like Nicky Winmar's stance society gets better if we sort s**t out rather than hide it away.

I think HL is a complete tosser. Makes claims to get attention and then won't back them up. When Buckley asked him to release the full tapes of conversation, he said, oh that would be hours. Well only release the full tape of the one particular conversation FFS.

However I see his PoV. There is still underlying racism no matter how many times the AFL have dreamtime games or rounds. It is all for PR and not for practical solutions.
 

SaintsSeptember

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He's a pretty prickly and unlikable character and probably does s**t people more than he brings people around to his view point but squeaky wheels get more s**t done that pleasant conversation. Perhaps Collingwood will come out of this a better organisation from his anger. Buckley seems to have become a very open minded guy and perhaps HL helped that. Bucks seems to have grown a bit from it and I think like Nicky Winmar's stance society gets better if we sort s**t out rather than hide it away.

I just get the vibe that with Heritier its all about him, even though he paints the picture of crusading a bigger cause.

Others, like Winmar have done better.
I don't mind it being up for discussion.

Apart from Long i can't really think of any disparate tribunal punishments as suggested. But my memory is probably shot.
 

Ads734

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Anyone got a gif of the Ben Long spear tackle? Absolutely love that he smashes someone once a week, and that recently he has found the way to do it without giving away a free. He's got a real unique skill set does Ben, and I love having him in the forward line
Not since Stevie Baker have we had a physical enforcer like him. I'm really happy he's found his niche in the side because its something good sides have. Also mentioned it before but he has an ability to really lift the guys with those types of efforts.
 

Ads734

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I think Héritier Lumumba is on to something regarding inherent racism in the AFL. For all the talk the AFL does, still seems like pigmentation of the skin is a possibly unconscious influence on the decisions.

I know I will get burned for this opinion, but racism just doesn't disappear. Name one other player suspended from a final for 'potential for injury'.

Actually name one other player at any time where that has happened. It may not be the case, but we need to maintain and be on the lookout for regression.
I dont think the Ben long suspension was a racist thing though I think it has more to do with the AFl's genuine bias against teams with lesser stars then say Melbourne. The AFL will rarely make an example out of a player such as Trent Cotchin, Joel Selwood, or even BUddy. On the other hand a guy like Toby Green and Ben Long , no such sympathy.
 

sammm

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Anyone got a gif of the Ben Long spear tackle? Absolutely love that he smashes someone once a week, and that recently he has found the way to do it without giving away a free. He's got a real unique skill set does Ben, and I love having him in the forward line
Better not call it a spear tackle. umpires will charge Ben Long in retrospect, and he will be out for 100 weeks. lol.
 

Ephemeral Hope

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There definitely seems to be a loading for skin colour. Even if it's subconscious. Also a small-team loading and star exemption for some
yep there's probably all 3 of those biases in play. Sometimes they interact and cross over making it hard to really pin down whether they're in play at a certain time. Eg. sometimes a player is so much a star that it overrides any small team loading or race bias. Eg. Doesn't matter how small our team is I reckon Steele's at the belovedness in the comp that he would get the easy ride at the tribunal
 

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