Review Round 9, 2023 - Brisbane Lions vs. Essendon

[Mr Ripper]

Funny how everyone assumes you might be five points up in a big match and need to practice slowing the game down and retaining possession. What if you're five points down? Ross found this out the hard way.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Funny how everyone assumes you might be five points up in a big match and need to practice slowing the game down and retaining possession. What if you're five points down? Ross found this out the hard way.

Usually you try to pull of some ridiculous kicks and end up losing by 3 or 4 goals

 

[Mr Ripper]

Usually you try to pull of some ridiculous kicks and end up losing by 3 or 4 goals

 

[martinson]

I am in disagreement with some posters on the slowing down of play.
The Lions have been doing this since the early days of Fagan, so it won't be going away.
It is a necessary part of owning the football for short periods of time.

Sure, things can go wrong like any other kick or handball.
This tactic is especially important in the last few minutes of the game. Also needed at other times during the game.
We are not the only club that does this.
Teams towards the top of the ladder are more likely to get it right more times than wrong.
As they say practice makes perfect.

But fatigue and the actual occasion (say close game/final) can cause issues so the more experienced the player the better.
And of course, we only talk about the fumbles part not when we actually score from the tactic like Rayner's last goal v Bombers.
I am sure there are a lot of other occasions where we either score a goal, point or create a forward stoppage with this type of play.

The main aim is to stop a turnover and if it does happen in is preferable to be in our forward 50 with 0-30 seconds left.
We have been doing this irrespective of being 40 points up or 5 points up.
Barring the last quarter, we still do it even if we are 1-2 goals down. Better to reset after the break than be 2-3 goals down.

Good points.

It's either a good plan ,a neutral plan or a poor plan overlayed by the timing and circumstance as to when you do it.

Like every other good plan in life it all gets back to the implementation which at times we fail at.

If it's a poor plan then it just won't work.

It works sometimes so it's not a poor plan except we don't know what might've happened if we didn't do it.

I've noticed ( my bias or truth ?) that when we do it nearing the end of quarters we very rarely( can't remember one ) kick a goal but sometimes the opposition does.

So we either need more training, more mental application to it ,or my preference which is one of our Captains make the call and make sure reliable disposers and experienced players get in the vicinity and in on it.

 

[briztoon]

If we thought the Ashcorft boys are something, i reckon Froggy's boy could be potentially be one of the best with his wife being Zorks sister.

Should we put this boy on the watch list 3KZ ROFL

View attachment 1688681

So taller than Zorks, but with Froggy’s speed.

 

[DERRINALPHIL]

Some one hasn't given Joe a vote!

A troll?

 

[Nunez]

Some one hasn't given Joe a vote!

A troll?

Who was the poster who kept advocating to drop Joe?

 

[Grasshopper17]

Who was the poster who kept advocating to drop Joe?

I believe that was beardancer? Haven't seen much of him in these parts lately

 

[Nunez]

I believe that was beardancer? Haven't seen much of him in these parts lately

Coincidence?

 

[Mr Ripper]

Coincidence?

Joe's too busy kicking goals to bother with posting on an internet forum.

 

[FLVanLandingham]

Honestly out of all our players I could see Joe shittalking on this forum. Or doing a bit of trolling

 

[Viceregal]

Honestly out of all our players I could see Joe shittalking on this forum. Or doing a bit of trolling

If Joe starts talking up Lester we will need to check if he and 3KZ is Football have ever been seen in the same room!

 

[Dalions]

Honestly out of all our players I could see Joe shittalking on this forum. Or doing a bit of trolling

Joe is beardancer?

 

[martinson]

Joe is beardancer?

Tucks his phone into his socks on gameday.

Finding it hard to post lately because they've put him into the play more and he can't find the time.

Wait till he's back permanently forward spraying them and he'll be back having a crack at himself.

 

[Grasshopper17]

I am in disagreement with some posters on the slowing down of play.
The Lions have been doing this since the early days of Fagan, so it won't be going away.
It is a necessary part of owning the football for short periods of time.

Sure, things can go wrong like any other kick or handball.
This tactic is especially important in the last few minutes of the game. Also needed at other times during the game.
We are not the only club that does this.
Teams towards the top of the ladder are more likely to get it right more times than wrong.
As they say practice makes perfect.

But fatigue and the actual occasion (say close game/final) can cause issues so the more experienced the player the better.
And of course, we only talk about the fumbles part not when we actually score from the tactic like Rayner's last goal v Bombers.
I am sure there are a lot of other occasions where we either score a goal, point or create a forward stoppage with this type of play.

The main aim is to stop a turnover and if it does happen in is preferable to be in our forward 50 with 0-30 seconds left.
We have been doing this irrespective of being 40 points up or 5 points up.
Barring the last quarter, we still do it even if we are 1-2 goals down. Better to reset after the break than be 2-3 goals down.

Think you've raised a good point Section 5, altho I think there's an argument to this each way.

I finally finished watching the replay this morning, and I noted with interest the final passage of play you referred to. There was a key difference between that passage of play and all the other ones we've been talking about that have either cost us goals or resulted in heart in mouth moments...

The Rayner goal came from a chain of possession where EVERY kick went forward. There was no kick backwards, stop, have a look, kick sideways, stop, have a look, kick backwards, miss a target, oops

So I think that's pretty key. Yep, milk the clock, great, but do so going forward. When you attack vertically there is much lesser risk of nasty things happening if you mess up, because all your numbers are on one side of the ground making it very congested on the rebound.

Also I'm not against backwards/sideways kicks, but again, let's do so with purpose. If we go backwards (and we should NEVER go backwards if we are already in the corridor... That should just be a team rule, no matter the match situation), take the mark, play on and keep going that way out to the other flank for another mark, this time kicking forward.

If we are able to complete that switch, we should have lost very little, if any, ground from one side of the field to the other, particularly late in a game when the other team should be fatigued. That will then give us the opportunity to complete the reverse switch, back to where we started. This all takes extra time and helps us run the clock.

And maybe by then the opposition have that outlet player manned up. If so, great, that's going to give our next guy (further forward on the same flank) more room to lead into. Kick long to him or boundary side of him, he marks, brings it to ground, or is close enough when it goes out of bounds that the umpire can't penalise us for insufficient intent. Gaining ground AND running the clock at the same time. Now that is smart footy.

The best part is if we do all this well, we can lure the opposition into a trap and actually set up genuine scoring opportunities for ourselves. Maybe that opponent calls our bluff by taking a boundary-side position. Great - he's just given our bloke basically the entire half forward flank essentially unencumbered. Some defences are now adopting boundary-side positioning inside defensive 50 but I dare them to bring that on the half forward flanks where there is much more space.

Maybe after succeeding with a flank-to-flank switch once or twice, their whole midfield zone defence overcommits when we try it again, opening up the potential for us to zig zag back the way we came, from the corridor, without even completing a full switch. Like tacking in sailing.

This was meant to be a couple of paragraphs but has basically become my entire thoughts on how best to run the clock End of the day I still think we should be playing to score at all times and there are ways to do that even while (a) taking time off the clock and (b) minimising the opposition's scoring opportunities.

 

[Section 5]

Think you've raised a good point Section 5, altho I think there's an argument to this each way.

I finally finished watching the replay this morning, and I noted with interest the final passage of play you referred to. There was a key difference between that passage of play and all the other ones we've been talking about that have either cost us goals or resulted in heart in mouth moments...

The Rayner goal came from a chain of possession where EVERY kick went forward. There was no kick backwards, stop, have a look, kick sideways, stop, have a look, kick backwards, miss a target, oops

So I think that's pretty key. Yep, milk the clock, great, but do so going forward. When you attack vertically there is much lesser risk of nasty things happening if you mess up, because all your numbers are on one side of the ground making it very congested on the rebound.

Also I'm not against backwards/sideways kicks, but again, let's do so with purpose. If we go backwards (and we should NEVER go backwards if we are already in the corridor... That should just be a team rule, no matter the match situation), take the mark, play on and keep going that way out to the other flank for another mark, this time kicking forward.

If we are able to complete that switch, we should have lost very little, if any, ground from one side of the field to the other, particularly late in a game when the other team should be fatigued. That will then give us the opportunity to complete the reverse switch, back to where we started. This all takes extra time and helps us run the clock.

And maybe by then the opposition have that outlet player manned up. If so, great, that's going to give our next guy (further forward on the same flank) more room to lead into. Kick long to him or boundary side of him, he marks, brings it to ground, or is close enough when it goes out of bounds that the umpire can't penalise us for insufficient intent. Gaining ground AND running the clock at the same time. Now that is smart footy.

The best part is if we do all this well, we can lure the opposition into a trap and actually set up genuine scoring opportunities for ourselves. Maybe that opponent calls our bluff by taking a boundary-side position. Great - he's just given our bloke basically the entire half forward flank essentially unencumbered. Some defences are now adopting boundary-side positioning inside defensive 50 but I dare them to bring that on the half forward flanks where there is much more space.

Maybe after succeeding with a flank-to-flank switch once or twice, their whole midfield zone defence overcommits when we try it again, opening up the potential for us to zig zag back the way we came, from the corridor, without even completing a full switch. Like tacking in sailing.

This was meant to be a couple of paragraphs but has basically become my entire thoughts on how best to run the clock End of the day I still think we should be playing to score at all times and there are ways to do that even while (a) taking time off the clock and (b) minimising the opposition's scoring opportunities.

Grasshopper17 you always have a good analysis of the game.
I also understand fans frustration of slowing down the play and especially kicking backwards. However, i don't always agree with what fans say or think.
Running down the clock will always require a team to kick sideways and back to some extent. Forward short kicks to an unmarked player also required.
It is then up to the opposition to go man on man if they wish.

I disagree on some of the bolded part i put on your post. Most kicks went forward as you stated but only just.
However, you need to look at the end result in this case. Meters gained if you like, from where it started to where it stopped.
Remember every 15-meter short kick forward and marked results in the player going back 10 meters behind the mark to take his kick.

The timeframe i look at in these slow down plays at end of quarters is 0-3 minutes actual game time. All games and situations vary.
Quite often there is no need to even try this type of play. But the Lions have been doing/practicing this for a few years now. Other teams also.
The fans hate it, but too bad. Teams need to practice this type of play. It will come in handy, but you don't know when.
Mistakes may/will happen as we saw in the last two weeks.
Both times to Andrews, one resulted in a goal. I am sure if the game was close, he would be more switched on.
Don't worry i scratched my head too, but that was just a human reaction at the time. Not the play itself.

What actually happened (Rayner goal v Bombers) is pretty much textbook from what i said in my post being:
"The main aim is to stop a turnover and if it does happen in is preferable to be in our forward 50 with 0-30 seconds left."

In this case McCarthy kicked a goal with 2 minutes left on the clock.
From the bounce the ball went into our defense and Payne marked in the back pocket with 1.47 remaining.
1.36: Payne kicks forward to Dunkley who marks 5 meters on defense side of the Lions I/C bench. This spot important regarding meters gained.
1.26: Dunkley with a 15-meter kick forward to Jo who marked. Jo literally just stepped onto the ground from the I/C bench.
1.10: Jo holds it up a bit, then pretends to go long. However, kicks 15 meters slightly forward towards the middle to unmarked Wilmot who marks.
1.00: Wilmot with a slightly backward kick to Jo who marks once again where the Lions interchange bench is.
This spot is only 10 meters from where Dunkley marked at 1.36 being the start of the slow down play. So only 10 meters gained with 3 marks and 3 kicks.

0.50: Jo looks backward but shakes his head at someone. He then decides it is time to go forward and see if we can score, so a long kick forward.
0.46: McInerney marks, goes back slowly, looks for options. Kicks 15 meters to the boundary slightly forward but further from goal for mark to Neale.
0.34: Neale kicks forward inside 50 which pretty much only gives 1 team a chance of scoring. That should be the teams aim, and they did it well.

0.34-0.00: From Neale's kick, no one marks the ball. Ball then goes out. Throw in, a rushed kick out of our forward 50 by Essendon.
Wilmott collects loose ball and a rush kick inside 50. Rayner marks and goals after the siren.