Review Round 9, 2025 - North Melbourne vs. Brisbane Lions

[Nuggo]

Xerri absolutely destroyed Oscar, and while he was beating Fort, Fort was doing a lot better than Oscar against him. So fagan (rightly) took oscar away from the contest. I know some people are complaining about Fagan's inclusions, but we would have lost that game had Oscar taken all the ruck contests yesterday. Fort was a great inclusion just on that. Dizzy was a head scratcher though, but my biggest problem was Kiddy coleman not being in the squad. He is probably in our top 1-6 players. Fagan brought Ashcroft in right away, and Kiddy should have been afforded the same respect. You don't leave out an A grader, and if Kiddy isn't in next week's team, i'll actually start to get frustrated. Especially with Berry out, there's absolutely 0 excuses to ignore him next week.

Depends on the discussion with Kiddy and how he is pulling up after games etc. Could be a few factors involved. Personally with the way he was tracking thought there may have been a chance we did not see him this year at all. So quite comfortable with where he is at.

 

[Bucking Beads]

Xerri absolutely destroyed Oscar, and while he was beating Fort, Fort was doing a lot better than Oscar against him. So fagan (rightly) took oscar away from the contest. I know some people are complaining about Fagan's inclusions, but we would have lost that game had Oscar taken all the ruck contests yesterday. Fort was a great inclusion just on that. Dizzy was a head scratcher though, but my biggest problem was Kiddy coleman not being in the squad. He is probably in our top 1-6 players. Fagan brought Ashcroft in right away, and Kiddy should have been afforded the same respect. You don't leave out an A grader, and if Kiddy isn't in next week's team, i'll actually start to get frustrated. Especially with Berry out, there's absolutely 0 excuses to ignore him next week.

\Ashcroft is ultra professional in the way he prepares. I would almost guarantee that Kiddy isn't and needed the run in his legs in the lower grades.

 

[mpal6]

But Joe liked it. Plus we had Hipwood as well

It's a bit like last year with Morris - if we don't try we won't know. I'd put Hipwood/Gallop in ruck relief and see how it goes for a few rounds.
If Gallop does a Morris this season and brings new energy to that forward line - all the better.

 

[Gadzorks]

Think thats what I kinda said. It turned out to be wrong because Berry got concussed. They are the facts.

You and I will never know what they were planning to do but we do know that nobody expected Bezza to be subbed out early in the game. Does that mean they got it wrong? We do know that our coaching staff are pretty highly rated and there would be a legitimate and quite sound reason for their selections but we will never know those details. So, when Berry got subbed out, original plans changed dramatically & not for the better.

Isn't the sub selection about making sure you maintain team balance no matter who goes down?

The choice is impacted by the versatility of the entire 23 so making the choice you look at scenarios including losing a mid, fwd, ruck and back.

No way was the selection of Darcy, Oscar and Darcy ever going to work if a mid fielder went down.

I figure we were worried about the ruck battle, like loose the ruck and lose the game. And that's kinda how it worked. Oscar and Darcy well beaten which took out the remaining midfield.

 

[Happy_Neale]

It's a bit like last year with Morris - if we don't try we won't know. I'd put Hipwood/Gallop in ruck relief and see how it goes for a few rounds.
If Gallop does a Morris this season and brings new energy to that forward line - all the better.

I shudder to think about Hipwood in the ruck against Xerri tbh. Think it could work against some rucks though

 

[Gadzorks]

The mother's day coincidence - is it really a coincidence???

Training load varies during the year, and what we did last year worked. Brilliantly.

Is it possible that we repeating last year's recipie and the last few weeks have been heavy load. Making our players sluggish and sore, and beatable?

Two years, same outcome ....

 

[Sunny Land]

Isn't the sub selection about making sure you maintain team balance no matter who goes down?

The choice is impacted by the versatility of the entire 23 so making the choice you look at scenarios including losing a mid, fwd, ruck and back.

No way was the selection of Darcy, Oscar and Darcy ever going to work if a mid fielder went down.

I figure we were worried about the ruck battle, like loose the ruck and lose the game. And that's kinda how it worked. Oscar and Darcy well beaten which took out the remaining midfield.

No. Not at all I don't think. It really depends on the team you play and the game style you chose to play in my opinion.

 

[p4p1]

Isn't the sub selection about making sure you maintain team balance no matter who goes down?

The choice is impacted by the versatility of the entire 23 so making the choice you look at scenarios including losing a mid, fwd, ruck and back.

No way was the selection of Darcy, Oscar and Darcy ever going to work if a mid fielder went down.

I figure we were worried about the ruck battle, like loose the ruck and lose the game. And that's kinda how it worked. Oscar and Darcy well beaten which took out the remaining midfield.

It's an interesting to ponder different scenarios trying to consider not who fills the injured players role best but how you would need to restructure the team to have the player who is in your top 23-25 available players.

If Fort or O go down, well you have a ruck already in the team. But you can go smaller in the forward line and it still works fine. So in that event a small forward would be your best sub. Gardiner isn't a bad sub in this event because he can play as the 3rd tall forward.
If an inside mid goes down, we have guys that are capable of stepping into that role already in the forward line (Bailey, Rayner, LAshcroft). So either a mid or small forward is going to be the best sub.
A winger goes down, then you need to replace that run by either pushing Fletcher back up to a wing, or having Cal push to a wing unless you are using Marshall as the sub. So a small/med mid, forward or defender are going to be the smartest subs.
You have a key back go down. Gardiner is the perfect sub. Otherwise you would need to have someone play tall on the 3rd tall forward ie Answerth, Fletcher. You can't push Hippy down there because that leaves Morris and a Ruck up forward which isn't going to work. So if you chose Gardiner, you're in luck. Otherwise you would want a small defender to make up for the loss of a key back.
A key forward goes down. Well, you have to play smaller. Cam becomes a psuedo tall and you bring in another small. Your best option is probably Gardiner in this situation though.
Small forward or small defender goes down. The best sub is obvious.

On the weekend the scenarios are if a ruck, key forward or key back went down, then Gardiner is your best bet on replacing if you believe he is a better option than moving some magnets around and going smaller up forward.
The problem comes when a a small/medium player is injured as was the case and our run was impacted. With a draw was the wrong selection of the sub a game losing/drawing decision? Probably but the team that was out on the park should have accounted for North without Berry anyway. So what I would consider not the correct choice should not have mattered in this game.

The biggest issue I find myself noticing is that without Day, if our main ruck goes out, assuming we are only playing one ruck then Hippy has to ruck the entire game. I don't mind Hippy as a second ruck, and Joe proved it could be done in a pinch but Hippy isn't Joe, he didn't have a full preseason either, so I don't know if you can take that risk. I don't know that you can plan a sub or have a second ruck play in the unlikely event that happens but I can certainly see why you would.

I went into this thinking that choosing a small/med player as sub was an easy choice but the more you think about it, the more you can envision things going wrong to structurally important players. Maybe that is what happened here, we just overthought it.

The coaches are between a rock and a hard place with the sub. I don't have answer to how the sub rule should work but it feels like if it is a legitimate concussion issue, rather than a tactical or 'normal' injury the coaches should have a bit more choice about who comes in. I also believe that while a HIA is being made, the sub should be able to play for that 15-20 mins and if the sub has been made but a player is coming off for a concussion the player that was subbed out should be able to return to the field.

 

[3KZ is Football]

Yeah ,
I can see Harris going something like .
If I lead to the ball , I don't really want it , unless I do want it.
You know what I mean. lol

It might come down to smarts and vision, and what is practised.


So probably just came down to the kick being terrible, otherwise Harris might of been ok to mark.
Don't really know if it would of been too short still. tbh
Funnily enough it was North back 15 or so years ago that had the decoy lead working to perfection, like trains on tracks, the first leading out towards the kicker , thus making space for a forward to drop in behind him and thats where the kick went.
Gees these days the game is so congested , good luck with these sought of plays working like a training drill .
It was quite impressionable .

I agree.

It might come down to smarts and vision, and what is practised.

Absolutely.

 

[Dalions]

Thought Will had a good first half and non existent second.

Felt like replacing Berry with Gardiner also messed with our structure a fair bit.

Not sure why we didn’t straight away shuffle Fletcher up to wing and put Darcy in Defence

 

[p4p1]

He is probably in our top 1-6 players. Fagan brought Ashcroft in right away, and Kiddy should have been afforded the same respect. You don't leave out an A grader, and if Kiddy isn't in next week's team, i'll actually start to get frustrated. Especially with Berry out, there's absolutely 0 excuses to ignore him next week.

Kiddy had more set backs than Ashcroft did. The most recent set back meant he basically had to stay home on the couch for a month to reduce the swelling. His fitness would be questionable at AFL level given that was only a few months ago. He had 15 disposals on the weekend. That probably goes in the column of not being ready for an AFL return yet. He had an excellent game his first game back but he wasn't carrying any soreness from the knocks and the increased workload of playing a game vs just training. I would love to see Kiddy back when he is ready but for now, maybe he needs a bit more time in the VFL to get his match fitness up and/or a sub role at AFL level before starting a game.

Will was out for 11 months from late July 2023 to late June 2024. Kiddy went down in round 0 last year, 8th of March 2024, his first comeback game in the VFL was two weeks ago so early May. That is an extra 3 months out compared to Will as more proof that things haven't been going to plan for Kiddy.

 

[mpal6]

Not sure why we didn’t straight away shuffle Fletcher up to wing and put Darcy in Defence

There were a few coaching levers to pull which we may have missed. Just backing our players in to come good eventually etc. Bailey, McCluggage, Fletcher - few could've gone through that wing area and we rotated differently through the middle.

Midfield was getting beaten anyway, was worth trying a few different combinations.

 

[p4p1]

Not sure why we didn’t straight away shuffle Fletcher up to wing and put Darcy in Defence

Yeah, it is a bit weird. Froggy can play as a HBFer with Dizzy taking the 3rd tall role.
If we had moved around the magnets a bit then Dizzy as the sub could work. We have plenty of guys who can play multiple roles.

 

[LionCub29]

Ashcroft 26 disposals 5 marks 5 tackles. Had equal tackles with Neale (equal 4th most for us) and much more of the ball. What exactly about this result is his fault?

I think 1 chain over 4-5 seconds accounted for 4 of those possessions. Washcroft wasn't terrible but (strangely) uncompetitive when the heat ramped up. Fletcher again had a telling influence in important passages of the game.

 

[Dalions]

Yeah, it is a bit weird. Froggy can play as a HBFer with Dizzy taking the 3rd tall role.
If we had moved around the magnets a bit then Dizzy as the sub could work. We have plenty of guys who can play multiple roles.

I think we generally like to play a defensive player as sub but it needs to be a more versatile and a running player like a McKenna or Beeken or Kiddy or Doedee.
Not Gardiner.
And Fort is not the Answer to our structure in the forward line. Far to slow defensively and same with Oscar when he rests up there.
And Oscar clearly plays better when 1 out, plenty of evidence to back this up.
We definitely got a few things wrong.
Please be quick to get back, Day!

 

[Tassie4ever]

Xerri absolutely destroyed Oscar, and while he was beating Fort, Fort was doing a lot better than Oscar against him. So fagan (rightly) took oscar away from the contest. I know some people are complaining about Fagan's inclusions, but we would have lost that game had Oscar taken all the ruck contests yesterday. Fort was a great inclusion just on that. Dizzy was a head scratcher though, but my biggest problem was Kiddy coleman not being in the squad. He is probably in our top 1-6 players. Fagan brought Ashcroft in right away, and Kiddy should have been afforded the same respect. You don't leave out an A grader, and if Kiddy isn't in next week's team, i'll actually start to get frustrated. Especially with Berry out, there's absolutely 0 excuses to ignore him next week.

 

[Kernel Kurtz]

I agree.

Absolutely.

Ha ha , I see what you did there.
Completely insane.

 

[Tassie4ever]

Those promoting Doodee are misguided. He hasn't played for 2 years and shows every sign of it. TBH he may now be beyond it and his chance may have passed him by. Similarly Kiddy is still finding his way and is a way off. Despite showing every sign of his real class.

There are others in the 2's worthy of consideration [eg Beeken, Gallop]. Where we ARE short is in the ruck as yesterday showed. Fort has been playing very well in the VFL but against top class he found it difficult. Oscar has not recovered his best form and in fact is well down.

 

[twhowler]

Mids got smoked. Feels like the gap between our best and worst there has widened? Pies game awful in CC. I have no stats to back it up, but i don't like Will and Neale in there together. It feels A) too small and B) they are both ball hunters. when we lost some of the clearances yesterday they just waltzed away

Would like to see Oscar given a rest. Give Fort the go against Gawn. Oscar looked weary. Gallop deserves a shot. 2 rucks not working for us

We badly missed Day! Hope he can come back

Lohman should have played 2s. He had enough match fitness v saints but having missed 1.5 more games was very rusty and lacked confidence. Should be better for the run

Morris could not buy a free kick, kept trying though

Hipwood in very good form overall. Has been excellent since he go fitness off a very limited pre season. Shame he missed that last one. he is better on the other side on his right!

Harris was excellent early. Did he take Mogadon at half time? The Zorko kick that went to ground he just watched it go out of bounds. Then the htb - what did he think would happen by holding it in the air with one hand? Obviously he is a gun, just wish at times he would recognise he needs a bit of urgency.

Payne was awesome. Then awful. Then redeemed himself with that last spoil. Did really well to read the play and be right there for it.

THe ground - no doubt we would have won at docklands imo. But it wasn't cold. Just a bit slippery. Harder to play our kicking game. But again if we won enough in clearance would not have happened

Ideally we would have won by 8 goals to boost our % and got the points

But certainly there is upside to not worrying about %

 

[Nathan Barley]

If the draw puts us 2 point above someone on the ladder we end up in the same spot if not better had we won and not loss

2 points is better than none but linking it to not having to worry about percentage doesn’t make sense

 

[M Malice]

Those promoting Doodee are misguided. He hasn't played for 2 years and shows every sign of it. TBH he may now be beyond it and his chance may have passed him by. Similarly Kiddy is still finding his way and is a way off. Despite showing every sign of his real class.

There are others in the 2's worthy of consideration [eg Beeken, Gallop]. Where we ARE short is in the ruck as yesterday showed. Fort has been playing very well in the VFL but against top class he found it difficult. Oscar has not recovered his best form and in fact is well down.

I have watched all of his games in the VFL, 1 of which I attended last week v the Suns at BHA, he has improved steadily, in his game against the Suns he looked way above VFL level, cool and calm with great disposal and defensive attributes. Tom only recently turned 28 so has at least 3-4 years after this season left in footy.

If he can stay injury free he will be a definite asset for our senior side.

 

[M Malice]

If the draw puts us 2 point above someone on the ladder we end up in the same spot if not better had we won and not loss

2 points is better than none but linking it to not having to worry about percentage doesn’t make sense

Our man Fages said in his presser that our percentage doesn't come into it now while noting our percentage was not that good... he caveated it with unless there is another draw.

 

[LoganMorrisFan]

Those promoting Doodee are misguided. He hasn't played for 2 years and shows every sign of it. TBH he may now be beyond it and his chance may have passed him by. Similarly Kiddy is still finding his way and is a way off. Despite showing every sign of his real class.

There are others in the 2's worthy of consideration [eg Beeken, Gallop]. Where we ARE short is in the ruck as yesterday showed. Fort has been playing very well in the VFL but against top class he found it difficult. Oscar has not recovered his best form and in fact is well down.

Doedee is a genuine A grader - don't forget he was favourite for captain at Adelaide. Yes he has had a fair time out but the attributes that make him unique are still there

 

[Nunez]

Not sure why we didn’t straight away shuffle Fletcher up to wing and put Darcy in Defence

Fairly sure we did, didn't we?

 

[mpal6]

Fagan was quite calm in presser. I believe he was in mulligan mode again. It's hard to tell with new ground, conditions, Oscar beaten by Xerri and our midfield getting pantsed as well as questionable sub. Also, North have been playing well for last 2 weeks and were closer to a win, their desperation showed.

Let's see how the boys respond next week.