Preview Round 9 - Swans vs Bombers - Saturday 14th May @ 7.25pm @ SCG

[Wolftone]

Jpk named at centre. Did it happen last week too? Wonder if horse goes back to him in the mids after we got smashed last week.

He was in the mids that got smashed last week

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[Wolftone]

I guess the concerning part for Ronke is that if anyone in the side was gonna have flat games, it probably shouldn't have been Ronke. Don't get me wrong, there are some regulars who have struggled for form in the best 22 this season, but Ronke was in the reserves and was supposed to be coming in with form behind him. If that forms only lasts three and a bit games, and then it's back to normal programming, then that's not good enough.

I think there were a lot worse than Benny last week. But he went. Wicks was OK in the reserves but not flash. Amartey was the one most likely.

We should have brought COR in. He was sensational. The whole reserves backline had far more composure then their Seniors colleagues. Mind you the opposition didn't exactly turn up.


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[dosser]

I think he’s poor when he has time to think. Against North he had no time snagged a couple of goals. Against Eagles all time in the world. and butchers the ball.

I think you may be right. It frustrates me when he stops, stands still, and frantically looks around for an option when he has the ball. It stops our momentum and shows that he maybe doesn't have strong natural football instincts. There is nothing wrong with that, but I'm not sure what his position/role should be? If he is a pressure forward then his tackles can be broken and he can't be relied on to kick goals. If he is in the midfield and is being used to block avenues and bring pressure then the abovementioned momentum stoppage kills us (and I don't trust his deivery into F50). And he isn't a natural defender.

Having said all that, I am a fan of all of our players and I know how hard they work on and off the field. Bell seems to be a great bloke and I really, really hope something clicks for him and he cements a place through good performance. That's what we really need - Bell to prove to us what the coaching staff undoubtedly see in him.

Then people can start posting some good things about him from behind their keyboards.

 

[Glenn_]

A while ago on another forum, someone was talking about how our forward line is more organised and structured under McVeigh than it was under Steve Johnson. Players have clearer roles.

My guess is that if the coaches want someone to play a defensive forward role. Then Bell might be the best available option who can do it.

We might have needed to bring in an average player who was willing to work hard and do the simple stuff our stars weren't doing against Gold Coast.

Swans and a organised, structured forward line just doesn't happen.

 

[ShireSwan]

I actually hope we lose this so the players that actually play well in the ressies might get a shot and we can become a club that rewards that. It's got to be a better model than Horsey's blinkered two tier "my guys" and the rest of the list making up numbers model which should be burnt to the ground.

With Hickey back we may struggle on and win - while not doing anything much to getting to where we ultimately want to be.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Swans and a organised, structured forward line just doesn't happen.

Swans and a rarely organised midfield delivering anything but floaty jfk special bombs!!

 

[caesar88]

I actually hope we lose this so the players that actually play well in the ressies might get a shot and we can become a club that rewards that. It's got to be a better model than Horsey's blinkered two tier "my guys" and the rest of the list making up numbers model which should be burnt to the ground.

With Hickey back we may struggle on and win - while not doing anything much to getting to where we ultimately want to be.

Ahhhh it's a no from me. There are no circumstances where I want the team to lose. I'm a little bit confused as to which of Horse's "guys" you want dropped, besides Lloyd presumably?

Ps. Can this board make "Horsey" a thing, instead of Horse?

 

[caesar88]

Swans and a rarely organised midfield delivering anything but floaty jfk special bombs!!

I know you don't rate Kennedy anymore, but did you really have to shoot him?

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

I know you don't rate Kennedy anymore, but did you really have to shoot him?

Just a player like any other.

oh - got it now!

 

[RUNVS]

Have not read the previous posts but I think it is harsh to drop McLean and Ronke. There were worse players last week.

 

[Donza]

Ahhhh it's a no from me. There are no circumstances where I want the team to lose. I'm a little bit confused as to which of Horse's "guys" you want dropped, besides Lloyd presumably?

Ps. Can this board make "Horsey" a thing, instead of Horse?

This sprung to mind

 

[RUNVS]

This sprung to mind

I bet the blonde girl now she has grown up deeply regrets that haircut.

 

[SGBeach]

Have not read the previous posts but I think it is harsh to drop McLean and Ronke. There were worse players last week.

Thought Ronke was harsh, especially bringing in Bell and Wicks whom both have had a good crack and produced nothing this year
I like McLean, but he is limited by his lack of mobility. I reckon that position needs to produce more than 1 goal, 1.5 tackles and 3 marks/game. He offers nothing up the ground, and little as a 2nd ruck. I rate Amartey (or at least Amarteys ceiling) ahead of McLean
Ladhams should offer and produce more. Im looking forward to the Ladhams / Hickey combo

 

[Bloods86]

Ahhhh it's a no from me. There are no circumstances where I want the team to lose. I'm a little bit confused as to which of Horse's "guys" you want dropped, besides Lloyd presumably?

Ps. Can this board make "Horsey" a thing, instead of Horse?

I'll admit I didn't really want us to win vs the Cats at the end of 2020. I loved the effort and being competitive, but it would have slid us from pick 4 to 6. Maybe the Hawks wouldn't have bid on Campbell that early if we hadn't picked up McDonald, but it would have been a "bad" win overall.

Personally, although not who you're replying to, I'd put Hayward and Bell in Horse's stable of favourites. Wicks was approaching that, and if he keeps his spot by just doing what he's done since the latter part of last season, he'll become a member. Not really another explanation (I don't buy the "safest" option and if that was the case, Horse needs a review). McLean might have done too, but now that there's enough other fit and better options, the right decision has been made. Lloyd escapes because of his record, but probably needs a break.

 

[RUNVS]

Thought Ronke was harsh, especially bringing in Bell and Wicks whom both have had a good crack and produced nothing this year
I like McLean, but he is limited by his lack of mobility. I reckon that position needs to produce more than 1 goal, 1.5 tackles and 3 marks/game. He offers nothing up the ground, and little as a 2nd ruck. I rate Amartey (or at least Amarteys ceiling) ahead of McLean
Ladhams should offer and produce more. Im looking forward to the Ladhams / Hickey combo

He is one of the few players we have that can reliably take a contested mark.

 

[caesar88]

I'll admit I didn't really want us to win vs the Cats at the end of 2020. I loved the effort and being competitive, but it would have slid us from pick 4 to 6. Maybe the Hawks wouldn't have bid on Campbell that early if we hadn't picked up McDonald, but it would have been a "bad" win overall.

Personally, although not who you're replying to, I'd put Hayward and Bell in Horse's stable of favourites. Wicks was approaching that, and if he keeps his spot by just doing what he's done since the latter part of last season, he'll become a member. Not really another explanation (I don't buy the "safest" option and if that was the case, Horse needs a review). McLean might have done too, but now that there's enough other fit and better options, the right decision has been made. Lloyd escapes because of his record, but probably needs a break.

They are all players who have been dropped in recent times though. Hayward was dropped before round 1 last year, Wicks was dropped this year (though I know you and I see that one differently), McLean has been dropped several times simply for not being Buddy, and Bell is the first one given the chop any time a better alternative becomes available. So I don't think any of them could be considered "favourites". More just the best of the "rest", if that makes sense.

 

[SGBeach]

He is one of the few players we have that can reliably take a contested mark.

yep, its his strength.. but.. he is averaging 1.5 contested marks per game. He needs to get himself into better positions to take more. I reckon his lack of mobility restricts this.
He trys hard, no doubt.. But I would like to see that position achieve more. When compared to other 'stay at home' forwards, his numbers dont stack up.
Hopefully Ladhams will offer more

 

[RUNVS]

yep, its his strength.. but.. he is averaging 1.5 contested marks per game. He needs to get himself into better positions to take more. I reckon his lack of mobility restricts this.
He trys hard, no doubt.. But I would like to see that position achieve more. When compared to other 'stay at home' forwards, his numbers dont stack up.
Hopefully Ladhams will offer more

I am surprised by this to be honest as I have been perfectly comfortable with McLean this year. He provides something that our other players really don't.

 

[Donza]

Have not read the previous posts but I think it is harsh to drop McLean and Ronke. There were worse players last week.

These statements frustrate me.

The swans coaching staff have identified where they need to improve. Especially with Essendon's playing style.
Turnovers and clearances.

Hence they have brought in players to help(Hickey) and players to create turnovers. Bell and Wicks.

 

[Bloods86]

They are all players who have been dropped in recent times though. Hayward was dropped before round 1 last year, Wicks was dropped this year (though I know you and I see that one differently), McLean has been dropped several times simply for not being Buddy, and Bell is the first one given the chop any time a better alternative becomes available. So I don't think any of them could be considered "favourites". More just the best of the "rest", if that makes sense.

Hayward didn't exactly do much when he came in last year and probably should have been dropped a couple of times, but eventually came good. It seems the same thing is happening again. Wicks seemingly takes a long time to earn a dropping, whichever way you look at it. Same with McLean, although less so. He's had runs of quiet games with little impact before finally getting dropped. I get that there's less options to replace him though. We'll have to disagree on there not being better options than Bell (although we agree on COR, I could list a few more).

Anyway, I just think there's some that take a while to earn getting dropped, whereas others can have one poor game and they're in trouble. Or not even that. Players like COR who do their job in seniors, dominate at reserves level, but struggle to get a look in or are quickly out of the senior team after a fleeting opportunity. I'd put Stephens in this category too, at least in comparison to the opportunities Bell (and sometimes Wicks) is given based on performances.

 

[SGBeach]

I am surprised by this to be honest as I have been perfectly comfortable with McLean this year. He provides something that our other players really don't.

fair enough.. and agree he provides a marking target inside 50.. not while on a lead - Buddy, McDonald, or not finding space in the pockets or 50m line - Heeney, Hayward and Paps (when he gets going). McLean provides a solid target deep inside the 50, and I appreciate that.
My point being is that that is all he does. Hes not a good 2nd ruck, there are better on the list. Hes not mobile - again there are a few more mobile talls on the list. Hes not good below his knees - again we've better, and hes not good defensively.
He plays as the deepest forward / 2nd tall, I just think we can get more out of that position.
Reid used to provide a 'get out of jail' marking option, also a marking option on the wing, also play as a spare in defence (if only he kicked straighter), and play the 2nd ruck role. I think these other strings to that position are important. If you are only going to do what McLean does, you need to be kicking 2-3 goals/game. McLean is kicking just over 1.
Ladhams will provide a better 2nd ruck, and hopefully a better marking target, offer more around the ground and more defensively, and hopefully kick more goals

 

[caesar88]

Hayward didn't exactly do much when he came in last year and probably should have been dropped a couple of times, but eventually came good. It seems the same thing is happening again. Wicks seemingly takes a long time to earn a dropping, whichever way you look at it. Same with McLean, although less so. He's had runs of quiet games with little impact before finally getting dropped. I get that there's less options to replace him though. We'll have to disagree on there not being better options than Bell (although we agree on COR, I could list a few more).

Anyway, I just think there's some that take a while to earn getting dropped, whereas others can have one poor game and they're in trouble. Or not even that. Players like COR who do their job in seniors, dominate at reserves level, but struggle to get a look in or are quickly out of the senior team after a fleeting opportunity. I'd put Stephens in this category too, at least in comparison to the opportunities Bell (and sometimes Wicks) is given based on performances.

McLean was very solid first two rounds, wasn't gonna get dropped. Had a poor game against Bulldogs, then another mediocre game against North where he still finished with two goals, so wasn't gonna get dropped. Very solid again against West Coast and Hawthorn, wasn't gonna get dropped. Two poor games against Brisbane and Gold Coast and he's been dropped. So if having two bad games is "taking a while" to get dropped, then sheesh.

Wicks not much difference. Played three games and then out because of COVID and banished to the VFL for a month.

I think sometimes we get fixated on a player's overall form in deducing whether they should be dropped or not, rather than looking at the individual performances that make up their form "slump".

 

[sataris]

This sprung to mind

I used to love this show!

 

[Bloods86]

McLean was very solid first two rounds, wasn't gonna get dropped. Had a poor game against Bulldogs, then another mediocre game against North where he still finished with two goals, so wasn't gonna get dropped. Very solid again against West Coast and Hawthorn, wasn't gonna get dropped. Two poor games against Brisbane and Gold Coast and he's been dropped. So if having two bad games is "taking a while" to get dropped, then sheesh.

Wicks not much difference. Played three games and then out because of COVID and banished to the VFL for a month.

I think sometimes we get fixated on a player's overall form in deducing whether they should be dropped or not, rather than looking at the individual performances that make up their form "slump".

We see McLean differently. As others have noted, he doesn't offer a lot other than to play deep forward, take marks and kick goals. We've had to have him pinch hit in the ruck due to injuries or the form of Sam Reid, but very sparingly. And the job he's in the team for, he doesn't do that well either. I think we view "very solid" differently. He's getting 1.2 goals a game, and 3.4 marks (with a couple of "bigger" weeks against the Eagles and Hawks where he had to move around and ruck a bit). 2 of his 3 multiple goal games were against the Eagles and North, so it's not stellar.

But as I said, for McLean it's partly due to options. If Amartey hadn't kept breaking down in reserves, he should have taken McLean's place a few weeks ago. I'm not even saying he'd be better (doubt worse), but it'd have been earned.

 

[RUNVS]

I used to love this show!

"Round the Twist" was my jam.