Autopsy Round 9 vs Dees. Blues never in it and Cunners does a knee

[Aphrodite]

Read my post before that? How exactly would the other players know that it was his first goal? That was my point Blue, not one of them would have had an idea. We're looking for problems where they don't exist. If he was a first gamer it'd be different.He debuted 2 years ago.

Yesterday was his 9th senior game.

 

[Original Moody Blue]

The balance between both gameplans. Young players in an overly defensive style V older players in an overly attacking style

Teague has had his chance.

 

[Hands On]

Final note our around the ball set ups and structures were as crapola under Bolton as they are under Teague - whats the common denominator?

Final note our around the ball set ups and structures were as crapola under Bolton as they are under Teague - whats the common denominator?

1. Barker
2. Players set in their ways and no one capable of slapping out of their system------ Barker & coaching panel
3. Perhaps game review and video highlights emphasize Eds and Cripps in and under style play which encourages players to go in and scramble for the ball. If this is the case again its coaching.

 

[Arr0w]

Teague has had his chance.

Still has time, the next 3- 5 games will give everyone an indication if he is willing to make adjustments

 

[katmanblue]

Anyone who only shows up after a loss is a regular poster this season

Ouch

 

[Recon_29]

So, every time a player kicks a goal and the whole 18 on field don't immediately rush him we can assume that the rest of the team don't like him?

Fair comment, but alot of people have mentioned the same thing. Players are generally on the ball when someone kicks their first. Plowmans been playing for a lot longer than Stocker and everyone swamped him when he kicked his first goal for the Blues earlier in the season.

Assumptions aside and if they didn't know thats fine and possibly true, however could have shown a bit more enthusiasm, just looked flat to me at the time for a good goal from a young player who's really putting his body on the line. There was a defeated look from everyone yesterday.

 

[Funk]

I think one of the more intriguing things that's gone somewhat unnoticed was Barass liking Gavstars post in regards to Tegaue being our biggest problem.

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FWIW - history says a new leader is not as wedded to previous decisions as the predecessor.

New President may feel less ownership of Teague appointment than MLG did.

 

[Blue since 72]

Interesting points and would certainly be valid if all clearances related to round the ground, but they don't

Remove the high and low average differentials in centre clearances, Dogs +4.6, Hawks -2.5, every other side sits between +2 and -2. It then comes back to the quality of exits. Teague's number one mantra in his attacking style is pump the ball forward quickly to a 6 on 6, understandable. But unfortunately this doesn't suit a forward line with strong marking forwards that he had at the Crows. This is clear to see, as all our forwards run instinctively to that long kick fall of the ball.

What needs to happen, is using 1 and or more outlets to get into space so we can either hit a leading target or go long to a get out option. Players leading forward, back and to the space, we only have one plan.

I have been on both sides of the coaching fence, so I can tell you, Teague is having the final say, whether the assistants are yes men or vigorously debate alternatives, none of us know

As for the fancy aspect of strategy, zone defense and or incorporating a +1 isn't fancy, it's been industry standard for a number of years, of course with variations. Pies tried 1 on 1 some years ago before challenging and suffered, changed that aspect and became a contender. Teague's defensive mindset is an afterthought, he views it as an opportunity to win the ball back so we can take of at breakneck speed, no matter if we are on top or suffering run ons, rather than using it to determine the nature, flow or momentum of the game, "Play our way" without a single thought of anything else that has unfolded. It's boarding on arrogance.

Apart from 2 sides that love to control the ball, Cats and WC, every other side averages around 70 turnovers a game. If you want to continue to spread the field, when these turnovers occur, we just don't have close to even numbers, hence, why we get scored against so heavily in this area (added to the lack of zone and or +1). I too have been calling for a better/more appropriate contested style (wins flags), so it's why I believe we should be condensing the ground, so when we or the opposition turn it over, we have ample numbers to combat the situation. Then work on the spread, when he have the ball, or be in a better position to negate the quick movement.

Can this gameplan work with a better quality of player and more maturity in the group, maybe, but this is not the style that suits us, at this point in time

Interesting that centre clearances were plus 1 to them (13/12) while around the ground stoppages were plus 16 to us (37/21).

We certainly ain't getting value for our stoppage dominance in general play and I'm sure I heard one of the media during Teague's post match presser saying Goodwin was prepared to lose the stoppage battle.

The game plan just ain't working and given how often it ain't working I'm pretty sure the learning and growing has been done by now. Time to either execute or chuck it out and get a new one (or at the very least tweak it).

I'm sure our best 22 if playing would make a better fist of it but how much of that would be down to talent vs system I wonder.

 

[Funk]

The preseason saw overlap runningat least- there is NONE of that now.
The midfield coaching/structures - ie the way the players are being ASKED to play is so behind the way the game is played today that it is OBVIOUS to anyone that just bothers to look at the way opposition teams structure up.
I'm frustrated NOT because of losses when we are 2 men down against an undefeated opponent- I am frustrated because our midfield is being coached to lose - irrespective of how well they play.

FWIW I don’t see a problem with this.

Pies, Hawks and Tigers won flags by developing an effective game plan different to all others.

i.e. nothing wrong with having a new/unique game plan.

However it needs to maximise skill sets/attributes of the playing list and actually be effective.

 

[katmanblue]

1 or 2 ... Seemed like more. Also, his judgement was when selecting options.

30m handball after taking a strong mark on the wing. Falls 5m short, intercepted, everyone out of position. Goal.

Great leadership.

 

[blue healer]

I think you are mising my point mate.

BEFORE anyone looks at the fancier side of game plan - we have to fix the really BASIC structures around contested ball sitiuations.

I'll say it again - Carlton playes all dive in at the same time in contested ground ball situations whilst the opposiiton set up AROUND the perimeter of the contested ball situation - often there are 3 Carlton players against 1 opposition player trying to get the ball- the rest of the opposition is away from the contested ball ready to either intercept a handball/tackle a Carlton reciever- there usually NONE anyway - or get an EASY release away from contested area bcause they arent covered.

This is the #1 issue that is the BEGINNING of all other problems. Carlton doesn't need an 'extra' mid if all they are doing is adding to congestion - our set ups around the AREA of the contest are NON EXISTANT | HAP HAZARD makey uppy RUBBISH

This is why we find it hard to DO something with a contested ball win - it usually ends up being an up and under or a turnover or a ball up.

Cripps looks like he is trying to do it all himself - because there is NO predictable release system - no overlap run no 1-2 options ahead of to the side of him - all of this shoudl be a matter of course- it isnt at Carlton and that is why we find it so so hard if not impsosible to use the corridor by run or by hand - we are always forced wide.

This is ALL on Barker and Stanton and it must be said Teague - in fact all teh coaches including Loyd - I mean just look at how the better teams set up around stoppages contested ball areas - it is chalk and cheese between us and them - we are playing kindergarten football with every player chasing the same ball one big mess and no system.

Simple fix 1- 2 players trying to get ball - 3-4 players positioned around the exits - rinse and repeat. If you watch teh Doggies - more often than not it was one against 2-3 of ours - so if we won it-we had nowhere to go and if we lost it - we wer echasing tail.

Thst the story of why we are where we are between teh arcs - that and piss poor tackling skill and kicking skil - half oif which our execution si always under perssure - and the reason why the blokes tire - is because they are chasing tail all the time - despite winning contests !!!

Teague spoke about that in his presser as well, so pretty sure he's not coaching it.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Read my post before that? How exactly would the other players know that it was his first goal? That was my point Blue, not one of them would have had an idea. We're looking for problems where they don't exist. If he was a first gamer it'd be different.He debuted 2 years ago.

It happens - not every player kicks a goal in his first game, or first 5, or 10. And you do often see a bit of a mob when they eventually get it because usually someone knows.

In Stocker's case, I was a little miffed that we didn't get around him and fire up because of the nature of the goal. Late in the first half, Dees had kicked a couple in a row and were three goals up, Stocker nails a beautiful snap shot off a couple of steps from a fair way out. It was the kind of goal I'd expect someone like Dusty to kick, and almost all of our players to shy away from in favour of 6 more handballs to try and get it to better position.

Pitto, Fogarty, Saad, Jones, Williams and Ed all gave him a bit of love, it was just a little tap and then on they went. Should have been an opportunity for a few of the leaders to really fire up and seize on the moment to get a bit of energy back into the troops.

I reckon it may have been a case of Cunners going down, Harry already playing with one arm, and the wind had gone out of our sail a bit and the players had (to some extent) accepted that a loss was probably coming.

 

[Bell Ringer]

Final note our around the ball set ups and structures were as crapola under Bolton as they are under Teague - whats the common denominator?

1. Barker
2. Players set in their ways and no one capable of slapping out of their system------ Barker & coaching panel
3. Perhaps game review and video highlights emphasize Eds and Cripps in and under style play which encourages players to go in and scramble for the ball. If this is the case again its coaching.

Teflon John

 

[Aphrodite]

Coaches Votes ...

10 Clayton Oliver (MELB)
8 Tom McDonald (MELB)
6 Jake Lever (MELB)
4 Sam Walsh (CARL)
1 Christian Salem (MELB)
1 Sam Docherty (CARL)

 

[Hands On]

Teflon John

Hard to kill!!!!!

 

[JustaBattler]

The Carlton coaching crew and its game plan has been publicly disrespected by opposition coaches twice thsi year now. Hinkley with his -" we knew the game was won in second quarter" ( they were two goals up) and yesterday that DH from Melbourne - " we were prepared to lose contested ball because we knew we could get it back"...

Teagues contested ball ( meaning Cripps) and inside 50 count ( meaning bombs to nobody and nowhere) is a meaningless positive drivel - and all opposition know it.

 

[Weiterbot23]

Changes for Dawks.
TDK for Pittonet
SPS for Cuningham
Dow for Setters
Honey for Owies

What has Owies done wrong?

 

[Arr0w]

Yes have them as wins

So 4- 5 of those as wins, then 1-2 from your list?

Okay

 

[Bluezer]

Yep, 6 or 7 of them, what would anyone expect?I doubt that any of them had any idea that it was his first AFL goal. This wasn't a kid kicking a goal in his first game, he first played two years ago, quite a few of those in the team yesterday weren't playing for us when he debuted. I don't know whether it's a reasonable expectation to have the players know that he hadn't kicked a goal before.

We're really looking at finding things to get upset about if this is meant to be an issue.

That may be so, but we always make excuses at Carlton these days. Good clubs with strong leaders don't miss this s**t. Culture and standards are driven by little things like this. IF they got around him, he walks taller doesn't he?

Our coaches make excuses, our leaders lean on excuses, what do we think the kids will do.

 

[__Bobcat__]

Interesting that centre clearances were plus 1 to them (13/12) while around the ground stoppages were plus 16 to us (37/21).

We certainly ain't getting value for our stoppage dominance in general play and I'm sure I heard one of the media during Teague's post match presser saying Goodwin was prepared to lose the stoppage battle.

The game plan just ain't working and given how often it ain't working I'm pretty sure the learning and growing has been done by now. Time to either execute or chuck it out and get a new one (or at the very least tweak it).

I'm sure our best 22 if playing would make a better fist of it but how much of that would be down to talent vs system I wonder.

Moving a high marking back men forward could have made the difference!


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[chelseacarlton]

Same old issues. Gameplan, transition between the arcs, bombing the ball forward, Cripps trying to do too much and turnovers.

It seems to almost be a directive, no one ever runs past him whilst he’s got 3 blokes hanging off him though, they just spread and run forward, they should be swarming him for a handball feed.

 

[gab213]

That may be so, but we always make excuses at Carlton these days. Good clubs with strong leaders don't miss this sh*t. Culture and standards are driven by little things like this. IF they got around him, he walks taller doesn't he?

Our coaches make excuses, our leaders lean on excuses, what do we think the kids will do.

Like I said you're looking for things to get upset about, this has nothing to do with 'Culture'. Do you seriously expect the players to know when a guy who first played two years ago kicks his first goal? Just explain to me how they'd be aware? Do they diligently study each of their teammate's stats before a game? It's not an excuse, it's that your expectation isn't a reasonable one at all in this circumstance.

These things usually (the getting around them) usually happens when the goal comes in their first game because everyone knows it's their first, when that goal puts the team in front or is the match winner. This is the classic case of turning a molehill into a mountain which is all too common around here at the moment.


We have plenty of real issues to deal with as a team, this isn't one of them.

 

[Blue since 72]

Moving a high marking back men forward could have made the difference!


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Apparently.

Good to know we're in safe hands.

 

[Blue1980]

They will still beat us next week

Definitely possible, I mean Hawks are a bottom 2-3 side, but we are a lower middle side at the moment.

Hawthorn were fairly competitive first 6 rounds, seems wheels have fallen off a bit last 3 weeks, but I’m anticipating them to come at us hard on Saturday.

We would be favourites, but I don’t see it as much more than 50-50 in our favour.

 

[FRUMPY]

You a bit grumpy FRUMPY

Here have a

View attachment 1130134

Haha nope, I was fine with this loss. Played out as expected

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