Autopsy Round 9 vs Dees. Blues never in it and Cunners does a knee

[Monty Burns]

Softest team in the AFL....by a long way

And have been for a long long time.
Not only physically soft but more importantly mentally soft.

we seriously need to get some psychologists down there to help out.

 

[Iamcarlton]

I really don't understand the hate Murphy is getting. Been a very good player for us over his career and was our best player for a number of years, and stayed loyal when he could have left and chased coin and/or a flag. He's obviously not the player he once was, but he's never been known for his tackling or pressure. He was far from our worst today.

I think youve just highlighted why he should retire.
If you arent the player you once where and cant/wont take on the requirements of another position then its time to move on whether you have been a good servant or not .
Imo that philosophy has mediocrity written all over it .

 

[DangerousD]

This might be a strange take but I get the feeling the players don't like him. That seemed to cement it.

Maybe he tackled better or two too hard at training, or called a few efforts out, a bit has been written about your idea above, I really hope there’s nothing to it.

 

[Hands On]

I think you are mising my point mate.

BEFORE anyone looks at the fancier side of game plan - we have to fix the really BASIC structures around contested ball sitiuations.

I'll say it again - Carlton playes all dive in at the same time in contested ground ball situations whilst the opposiiton set up AROUND the perimeter of the contested ball situation - often there are 3 Carlton players against 1 opposition player trying to get the ball- the rest of the opposition is away from the contested ball ready to either intercept a handball/tackle a Carlton reciever- there usually NONE anyway - or get an EASY release away from contested area bcause they arent covered.

This is the #1 issue that is the BEGINNING of all other problems. Carlton doesn't need an 'extra' mid if all they are doing is adding to congestion - our set ups around the AREA of the contest are NON EXISTANT | HAP HAZARD makey uppy RUBBISH

This is why we find it hard to DO something with a contested ball win - it usually ends up being an up and under or a turnover or a ball up.

Cripps looks like he is trying to do it all himself - because there is NO predictable release system - no overlap run no 1-2 options ahead of to the side of him - all of this shoudl be a matter of course- it isnt at Carlton and that is why we find it so so hard if not impsosible to use the corridor by run or by hand - we are always forced wide.

This is ALL on Barker and Stanton and it must be said Teague - in fact all teh coaches including Loyd - I mean just look at how the better teams set up around stoppages contested ball areas - it is chalk and cheese between us and them - we are playing kindergarten football with every player chasing the same ball one big mess and no system.

Simple fix 1- 2 players trying to get ball - 3-4 players positioned around the exits - rinse and repeat. If you watch teh Doggies - more often than not it was one against 2-3 of ours - so if we won it-we had nowhere to go and if we lost it - we wer echasing tail.

Thst the story of why we are where we are between teh arcs - that and piss poor tackling skill and kicking skil - half oif which our execution si always under perssure - and the reason why the blokes tire - is because they are chasing tail all the time - despite winning contests !!!

100% Correct. Many of us here have been highlighting this for years. shame the Midfield coaches cant.
If you have noticed the same thing happens in the forward line when we hack or bomb a ball forward. Like under 12 footy they all get drawn to the ball leaving one or 2 defenders outside. Ball comes out a few quick handballs and they have us on the break and commence their overlap run to the forward line.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Would be easier to spread from a stoppage if our ruckmen could compete and occasionally win a hit out to advantage..

 

[JustaBattler]

100% Correct. Many of us here have been highlighting this for years. shame the Midfield coaches cant.
If you have noticed the same thing happens in the forward line when we hack or bomb a ball forward. Like under 12 footy they all get drawn to the ball leaving one or 2 defenders outside. Ball comes out a few quick handballs and they have us on the break and commence their overlap run to the forward line.

a nd half teh time they are falling over each other mucking up each others play for the ball - just keysotne cops stuff - rubbish.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Personally I think Saad is overpaid... but to each their own. It's costing us several thousand dollars per misplaced kick ATM. He did about 4 good things today. Things a competent HBF would do in any good side. A pass but only just.

#onlyCarltonplayersmisstargets

 

[Sweet Seventeen]

I would bring in JSOS too

Absolutely, I did not realise that he was ready. What a difference he would have made yesterday, still would have got beat though.

 

[TwiggleyFanClub]

OMG they HATE HIM!!!! THEY HATE HIM!!!

lol

Not enough love for Stocker.

 

[Koutamightafides]

So I counted 6 or 7 who got over to him ?

Disgraceful . Saad probably didn't know but most of the others would have . Our culture is easily the worst in the league . We have 22 mercenaries not patriots .

 

[Blue and Blue]

Some psychologists here might do no harm also....................

 

[Aphrodite]

Changes for Dawks.
TDK for Pittonet
SPS for Cuningham
Dow for Setters
Honey for Owies

I would bring in JSOS too

Preview - Rnd 10 - Carlton v Hawks Sat May 22 at 1.45 at MCG - Team Post #357

OUT: Cottrell, Murphy, Cuningham (inj), Casboult, Gibbons IN: Silvagni, Honey, TDK, Ramsey FB:NewmanJonesParks HB:WilliamsWeiteringSaad C:DochertyWalshPlowman HF:FogartySilvagniHoney FF:OwiesMcKayTDK FOL:PittonetCrippsSetterfield BENCH:StockerCurnowBetts Ramsey Docherty...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[Brackets]

I think it's clear most didn't realise it was his first goal.

However it is disappointing in any case Cripps didn't make an effort to run over and congratulate him. He's a young player that kicked a nice goal and you'd expect the captain to lead the way in acknowledging it.

Watch when a Tigers player smoothers a ball or does something with desperation. Two players will rush over to pick them up and acknowledge it. It's not something I see often from us.

 

[Arr0w]

I think you are mising my point mate.

BEFORE anyone looks at the fancier side of game plan - we have to fix the really BASIC structures around contested ball sitiuations.

I'll say it again - Carlton playes all dive in at the same time in contested ground ball situations whilst the opposiiton set up AROUND the perimeter of the contested ball situation - often there are 3 Carlton players against 1 opposition player trying to get the ball- the rest of the opposition is away from the contested ball ready to either intercept a handball/tackle a Carlton reciever- there usually NONE anyway - or get an EASY release away from contested area bcause they arent covered.

This is the #1 issue that is the BEGINNING of all other problems. Carlton doesn't need an 'extra' mid if all they are doing is adding to congestion - our set ups around the AREA of the contest are NON EXISTANT | HAP HAZARD makey uppy RUBBISH

This is why we find it hard to DO something with a contested ball win - it usually ends up being an up and under or a turnover or a ball up.

Cripps looks like he is trying to do it all himself - because there is NO predictable release system - no overlap run no 1-2 options ahead of to the side of him - all of this shoudl be a matter of course- it isnt at Carlton and that is why we find it so so hard if not impsosible to use the corridor by run or by hand - we are always forced wide.

This is ALL on Barker and Stanton and it must be said Teague - in fact all teh coaches including Loyd - I mean just look at how the better teams set up around stoppages contested ball areas - it is chalk and cheese between us and them - we are playing kindergarten football with every player chasing the same ball one big mess and no system.

Simple fix 1- 2 players trying to get ball - 3-4 players positioned around the exits - rinse and repeat. If you watch teh Doggies - more often than not it was one against 2-3 of ours - so if we won it-we had nowhere to go and if we lost it - we wer echasing tail.

Thst the story of why we are where we are between teh arcs - that and piss poor tackling skill and kicking skil - half oif which our execution si always under perssure - and the reason why the blokes tire - is because they are chasing tail all the time - despite winning contests !!!

Interesting points and would certainly be valid if all clearances related to round the ground, but they don't

Remove the high and low average differentials in centre clearances, Dogs +4.6, Hawks -2.5, every other side sits between +2 and -2. It then comes back to the quality of exits. Teague's number one mantra in his attacking style is pump the ball forward quickly to a 6 on 6, understandable. But unfortunately this doesn't suit a forward line with strong marking forwards that he had at the Crows. This is clear to see, as all our forwards run instinctively to that long kick fall of the ball.

What needs to happen, is using 1 and or more outlets to get into space so we can either hit a leading target or go long to a get out option. Players leading forward, back and to the space, we only have one plan.

I have been on both sides of the coaching fence, so I can tell you, Teague is having the final say, whether the assistants are yes men or vigorously debate alternatives, none of us know

As for the fancy aspect of strategy, zone defense and or incorporating a +1 isn't fancy, it's been industry standard for a number of years, of course with variations. Pies tried 1 on 1 some years ago before challenging and suffered, changed that aspect and became a contender. Teague's defensive mindset is an afterthought, he views it as an opportunity to win the ball back so we can take of at breakneck speed, no matter if we are on top or suffering run ons, rather than using it to determine the nature, flow or momentum of the game, "Play our way" without a single thought of anything else that has unfolded. It's boarding on arrogance.

Apart from 2 sides that love to control the ball, Cats and WC, every other side averages around 70 turnovers a game. If you want to continue to spread the field, when these turnovers occur, we just don't have close to even numbers, hence, why we get scored against so heavily in this area (added to the lack of zone and or +1). I too have been calling for a better/more appropriate contested style (wins flags), so it's why I believe we should be condensing the ground, so when we or the opposition turn it over, we have ample numbers to combat the situation. Then work on the spread, when he have the ball, or be in a better position to negate the quick movement.

Can this gameplan work with a better quality of player and more maturity in the group, maybe, but this is not the style that suits us, at this point in time

 

[BlueAbroad]

 

[BlueBayou]

Changes for Dawks.
TDK for Pittonet
SPS for Cuningham
Dow for Setters
Honey for Owies

Murphy or Gibbo

 

[BlueBayou]

#onlyCarltonplayersmisstargets

????????

 

[gab213]

So I counted 6 or 7 who got over to him ?

Yep, 6 or 7 of them, what would anyone expect?I doubt that any of them had any idea that it was his first AFL goal. This wasn't a kid kicking a goal in his first game, he first played two years ago, quite a few of those in the team yesterday weren't playing for us when he debuted. I don't know whether it's a reasonable expectation to have the players know that he hadn't kicked a goal before.

We're really looking at finding things to get upset about if this is meant to be an issue.

 

[JustaBattler]

Interesting points and would certainly be valid if all clearances related to round the ground, but they don't

Remove the high and low average differentials in centre clearances, Dogs +4.6, Hawks -2.5, every other side sits between +2 and -2. It then comes back to the quality of exits. Teague's number one mantra in his attacking style is pump the ball forward quickly to a 6 on 6, understandable. But unfortunately this doesn't suit a forward line with strong marking forwards that he had at the Crows. This is clear to see, as all our forwards run instinctively to that long kick fall of the ball.

What needs to happen, is using 1 and or more outlets to get into space so we can either hit a leading target or go long to a get out option. Players leading forward, back and to the space, we only have one plan.

I have been on both sides of the coaching fence, so I can tell you, Teague is having the final say, whether the assistants are yes men or vigorously debate alternatives, none of us know

As for the fancy aspect of strategy, zone defense and or incorporating a +1 isn't fancy, it's been industry standard for a number of years, of course with variations. Pies tried 1 on 1 some years ago before challenging and suffered, changed that aspect and became a contender. Teague's defensive mindset is an afterthought, he views it as an opportunity to win the ball back so we can take of at breakneck speed, no matter if we are on top or suffering run ons, rather than using it to determine the nature, flow or momentum of the game, "Play our way" without a single thought of anything else that has unfolded. It's boarding on arrogance.

Apart from 2 sides that love to control the ball, Cats and WC, every other side averages around 70 turnovers a game. If you want to continue to spread the field, when these turnovers occur, we just don't have close to even numbers, hence, why we get scored against so heavily in this area (added to the lack of zone and or +1). I too have been calling for a better/more appropriate contested style (wins flags), so it's why I believe we should be condensing the ground, so when we or the opposition turn it over, we have ample numbers to combat the situation. Then work on the spread, when he have the ball, or be in a better position to negate the quick movement.

Can this gameplan work with a better quality of player and more maturity in the group, maybe, but this is not the style that suits us, at this point in time

Yes I have previously stated that Teague's game plan is pretty much Adelaide's game plan of 2015-2017 as you say - we dont have three monster marking forwards or the kicking skill to play that game convincingly agianst better opponents - and ultimately even the tuggers were able to destroy that game plan in their first GF win.

Dont disagree with anything you are saying - I am just saying that we should at least know how to set up around stoppages and contested ball situations - this would pretty much fix 75% of the momentum issues that we cop.

You arent going to see serious pressure on Teague - until Cripps/McKay and Walsh are put to bed - just like he wont drop Murphy because (obviosuly) Murphy was a prime mover in getting Teague hsi gig.

Maybe Teague is the problem I dont know - but they are all in it together as he says.

Final note our around the ball set ups and structures were as crapola under Bolton as they are under Teague - whats the common denominator?

 

[gab213]

This might be a strange take but I get the feeling the players don't like him. That seemed to cement it.

So, every time a player kicks a goal and the whole 18 on field don't immediately rush him we can assume that the rest of the team don't like him?

 

[Blue__Balls]

????????

Might shock you to hear - but players from other sides also miss targets by foot.

We only really notice when our players do it, but Saad really isn't any different to any other HBF in this regard.

 

[Original Moody Blue]

I think you are mising my point mate.

BEFORE anyone looks at the fancier side of game plan - we have to fix the really BASIC structures around contested ball sitiuations.

I'll say it again - Carlton playes all dive in at the same time in contested ground ball situations whilst the opposiiton set up AROUND the perimeter of the contested ball situation - often there are 3 Carlton players against 1 opposition player trying to get the ball- the rest of the opposition is away from the contested ball ready to either intercept a handball/tackle a Carlton reciever- there usually NONE anyway - or get an EASY release away from contested area bcause they arent covered.

This is the #1 issue that is the BEGINNING of all other problems. Carlton doesn't need an 'extra' mid if all they are doing is adding to congestion - our set ups around the AREA of the contest are NON EXISTANT | HAP HAZARD makey uppy RUBBISH

This is why we find it hard to DO something with a contested ball win - it usually ends up being an up and under or a turnover or a ball up.

Cripps looks like he is trying to do it all himself - because there is NO predictable release system - no overlap run no 1-2 options ahead of to the side of him - all of this shoudl be a matter of course- it isnt at Carlton and that is why we find it so so hard if not impsosible to use the corridor by run or by hand - we are always forced wide.

This is ALL on Barker and Stanton and it must be said Teague - in fact all teh coaches including Loyd - I mean just look at how the better teams set up around stoppages contested ball areas - it is chalk and cheese between us and them - we are playing kindergarten football with every player chasing the same ball one big mess and no system.

Simple fix 1- 2 players trying to get ball - 3-4 players positioned around the exits - rinse and repeat. If you watch teh Doggies - more often than not it was one against 2-3 of ours - so if we won it-we had nowhere to go and if we lost it - we wer echasing tail.

Thst the story of why we are where we are between teh arcs - that and piss poor tackling skill and kicking skil - half oif which our execution si always under perssure - and the reason why the blokes tire - is because they are chasing tail all the time - despite winning contests !!!

Have heard under 9's coaches telling their kids this.

 

[Arr0w]

Yes I have previously stated that Teague's game plan is pretty much Adelaide's game plan of 2015-2017 as you say - we dont have three monster marking forwards or the kicking skill to play that game convincingly agianst better opponents - and ultimately even the tuggers were able to destroy that game plan in their first GF win.

Dont disagree with anything you are saying - I am just saying that we should at least know how to set up around stoppages and contested ball situations - this would pretty much fix 75% of the momentum issues that we cop.

You arent going to see serious pressure on Teague - until Cripps/McKay and Walsh are put to bed - just like he wont drop Murphy because (obviosuly) Murphy was a prime mover in getting Teague hsi gig.

Maybe Teague is the problem I dont know - but they are all in it together as he says.

Final note our around the ball set ups and structures were as crapola under Bolton as they are under Teague - whats the common denominator?

The balance between both gameplans. Young players in an overly defensive style V older players in an overly attacking style

 

[Blue__Balls]

So, every time a player kicks a goal and the whole 18 on field don't immediately rush him we can assume that the rest of the team don't like him?

It was his first goal, and you do tend to see players get swamped when they nail their first.

That being said, Stocker has been on the list 3 years now, so it's possible that the boys just didn't realise he hadn't kicked a goal before that.

 

[gab213]

It was his first goal, and you do tend to see players get swamped when they nail their first.

That being said, Stocker has been on the list 3 years now, so it's possible that the boys just didn't realise he hadn't kicked a goal before that.

Read my post before that? How exactly would the other players know that it was his first goal? That was my point Blue, not one of them would have had an idea. We're looking for problems where they don't exist. If he was a first gamer it'd be different.He debuted 2 years ago.