Autopsy Round 9 vs Essendon plus changes

[tunksy]

Dont think you could bag houli on last nights effort. Tried hard. grigg on the other hand.....

92.6% 1 clanger... 3 rebounds 3 insides 11 marks granted only one tackle, is that what you're getting at?

 

[theflea]

92.6% 1 clanger... 3 rebounds 3 insides 11 marks granted only one tackle, is that what you're getting at?

No im getting at none of those possession hurt the opposition. Every kick is an up and under letting our opponents in to spoil or he kicks it to their advantage instead of ours or he has no idea about depth of kicking and refuses to lower his eyes to a leading fwd or at least have a look and not just bang it long without any idea of purpose. Last year he provided real spread and run and hurt them but unless he does this (which imo he's not) he can be a liability.

 

[theflea]

The other quite noticable thing we have is no timing for leads. We dont get off the mark quick enough and then our leading fwd of the ball, the timing is wrong as by the time the ball carrier is ready the player is too close.

 

[tunksy]

No im getting at none of those possession hurt the opposition. Every kick is an up and under letting our opponents in to spoil or he kicks it to their advantage instead of ours or he has no idea about depth of kicking and refuses to lower his eyes to a leading fwd or at least have a look and not just bang it long without any idea of purpose. Last year he provided real spread and run and hurt them but unless he does this (which imo he's not) he can be a liability.

if this were true wouldn't his disposal efficiency be lower? he has been very up and down this year and way down on last year and agree that his kicks are mostly up and under. however i think this was his best or close to his best game for the year.

The other quite noticable thing we have is no timing for leads. We dont get off the mark quick enough and then our leading fwd of the ball, the timing is wrong as by the time the ball carrier is ready the player is too close.

this. so so much of this. it think 3 talls that are all marking players is really disrupting our marking. The good teams have made us look terrible at this and kept us to low numbers in or just outside of 50 for marks. the 50 is too cluttered and too slow with vickey, jack and mcgune.

 

[Ralll]

toast
-Vlas
-Backline

Roast
-Our offensive gameplan...I just dont think we have the cattle to make this work against the better teams...needs tweaking
-Our zone defence is just awful. Go 1on1, make them accountable.
-The defensive running from our mids was again found out. The usual Grigg/edwards and I even saw Cotch jogging behind while his opponent worked harder away from him and recieved the ball twice in a space of 30secs.

In Dimma's 4th season, we've plateaued with the usual honorable lossess against the better teams and now cant afford to drop any games against lower teams. A different kind of pressure will mount on us if/when we go 5/5.
14/8 made the finals last season...

out
McGuane White Nahas Grigg Lonegron
In
Edwards Ellis... Knights...Conca...Tuck...

 

[theflea]

if this were true wouldn't his disposal efficiency be lower? he has been very up and down this year and way down on last year and agree that his kicks are mostly up and under. however i think this was his best or close to his best game for the year.



this. so so much of this. it think 3 talls that are all marking players is really disrupting our marking. The good teams have made us look terrible at this and kept us to low numbers in or just outside of 50 for marks. the 50 is too cluttered and too slow with vickey, jack and mcgune.

Yeah this is the problem with the DE % and how its calculated too. On your 2nd point, its not only our fwd line its all over the ground.

 

[maceman]

Essendon too good.

Showed the standard of team we are.

Out: Nahas & Lonergan

In: Anyone else

I used to be a real fan of Nahas but geez, that kid just can't keep his feet.

 

[sneakyjetta]

How/why is dustin martin excluded from the holding the ball rule? does this happen in all games? Pretty crazy must be his strength

 

[BC9_]

Can't be ****ed thinking of changes when none of Tuck, Conca and probably Ellis won't be coming in.

Injuries > Richmond.

The Injuries have taken over us and we won't be better than the Injuries until we get more experienced and the Injuries have been overcome. Until then, the sleeping giant will continue sleeping in some ****ing remote Jungle far far away.

 

[Joker91]

How/why is dustin martin excluded from the holding the ball rule? does this happen in all games? Pretty crazy must be his strength

How are Essendon players allowed to just drop the ball in tackles and get away with it?

With Dustin Martin you will notice that majority of the time he manages to get a boot onto the ball or a hand even when getting tackled. The disposal might be crap but he still disposes of it properly.

 

[tunksy]

Can't be screwed thinking of changes when none of Tuck, Conca and probably Ellis won't be coming in.

Injuries > Richmond.

The Injuries have taken over us and we won't be better than the Injuries until we get more experienced and the Injuries have been overcome. Until then, the sleeping giant will continue sleeping in some ******* remote Jungle Galaxy far far away.

EFA

 

[TiggerMan22]

Our pressure was pathetic last night. When we had the ball there was always an Essendon player running at the ball carrier which caused us to stuff up many, many, many times. Yet when Esesendon had in the had a huge amount of space and just hit target after target with no pressure. As we have seen with Pies v Cats and Ess v Lions if you come out and just tackle, tackle, tackle you can beat the better team. Tackling should be our only goal against the Eagles, just tackle and tackle and tackle and actually want the ball (unlike last night), if we do that we should win .If I remember correctly, that kind of pressure is why we beat the Swans and Hawks last year.

 

[TiggerMan22]

Jackson 7 clangers.

Could probably say that about half the team. How many inside 50's were shanked towards the boundary? I lost count.

 

[TiggerMan22]

Deledio – any chance of this guy playing well against a good team? Ever? The midfield experiment can come to an end – send him back to half-back



OUT: Nahas, Lonergan, Jackson, McGuane, Vickery

IN: Ellis, Arnot, A.Edwards, Conca (Hopefully), Stephensen

Seriously? Lids was tagged all game and got injured. He was AA last year, I'm sure that makes him a pretty good Mid.
You complain about no midfield strength and then want to take out Jackson.
Do you really think A.Edwards and Stephenson will be better than Vickery and McGaune? That means either Maric or Stephenson will have to play up forward, leaving us with basically only 2 actual forward options and A.Edwards got delisted for a reason.

 

[TerraTiger]

We really missed the run and link up play of ellis and conca tonight. It goes to show you we actually dont have depth because nahas, white, lonergan,grigg and mcguane simply would not get a game in a top 8 side. We need a big fish in the pre-season ala essendon with goddard last year to get to that next level.

Defence was good, forwards didnt lead and midfield well beaten

With respect, i don't think that should be our strategy (just my opinion). We got smashed in the middle, no doubt .......however..... the signs from Ellis and Conca this year have been good/great. They can fill the void where we've needed to run Edwards, Nahas and King in the middle and help out Cotch, Lids etc. Also, bring Foley to something like full fitness, add Helbig - I think the players are there. To get desperate and try to entice a really big name would be a kneejerk reaction.

 

[Capitano_Cotch]

Vickery was in our top 3 last week.

Against Melbourne?
Indicative of our whole side really.
Great against the terrible teams, terrible against the better teams.

This is where as a club, we stagnate.

Too much accepting mediocrity going on...

 

[copthat]

Against Melbourne?
Indicative of our whole side really.
Great against the terrible teams, terrible against the better teams.

This is where as a club, we stagnate.

Too much accepting mediocrity going on...

Was great v Carlton, our best forward v Freo and serviceable v Collingwood. Just a bit inconsistent. Standard for a 23 yr old Ruck/Forward.

 

[Capitano_Cotch]

Was great v Carlton, our best forward v Freo and serviceable v Collingwood. Just a bit inconsistent. Standard for a 23 yr old Ruck/Forward.

Yep, i see all that.
Was good against Carlton, our best forward.
Was also good against Freo.

Serviceable is not good enough for a top 10 draft pick.

Look, I'm not saying he is a terrible player (my emotions get the better of me sometimes)
It's just that other teams have players in that role who are much better.

This is where we fail.

I'm not making him the scape goat, I just think he makes us dysfunctional as a team.

The forward lines best performance came in the game against Port where he did not play.

 

[Neen]

92.6% 1 clanger... 3 rebounds 3 insides 11 marks granted only one tackle, is that what you're getting at?

Another 25 + possession game for Grigg, but as per usual, they are nothing kicks sideways, backwards and cover more height than penetration. There should be a stat for players like Grigg - "Distance covered by disposal", because his would be negative. Typical effort - four possessions in less than 30 seconds, with his last handball to a player under pressure. He is a shadow of the damaging player he was last year, and teams allow him space because he seldom hurts the opposition by foot.

Tuck was sent back to Coburg to learn a more defensive mindset, and Grigg is overdue. Grigg is an EXPERT at creating space, but he is not hurting the opposition, and as an outside mid, has not fulfilled anything near his output from 2012. His stats will continually be 25 + per game, there's no argument that he creates space, but his first option is always a safe option sideways or backwards. I would love to see him take risks and hurt the opposition.

Grigg frustrates me because he can really hurt the opposition with his space and disposal by foot. But it is not happening this year.

 

[nobulltiger]

Aaron Edwards

 

[copthat]

It's just that other teams have players in that role who are much better.

Who? I can think of Roughead and Naitanui.

 

[cairo tiger]

We have a fundamental problem that was particularly evident last night. We are clumsy, and i don't just mean McGuane and Nahas. Whenever we attempt to pick the loose ball of the ground, rarely do we gather it cleanly with the first attempt. Too many kicks failed to be effectively delivered to the intended target - making the intended target's job all that much more difficult. Even more troubling were the occasions when we dropped well delivered passes. The same sort of clumsiness was there to be cringed over when we handballed. Clumsy Tiges. We had to work twice as hard (perhaps even more) than should have been necessary. Practice these fundamental skills - other clubs clearly practice these things more than we do.

which begs my question- has the list improved under hardwick and his team of coaches? My answer is negative.

 

[MR]

Anyone suggesting we bring in Arnot/McBean into the team needs to ask themselves if they are prioritizing development or winning. If someone truly believes that we need to put development ahead of everything else at this stage, then yes, bring in McBean, bring in Arnot, heck, bring in McDonough and Elton too. However, there should not be one person here who believes that winning is our highest priority and that to accomplish this bringing in McBean and Arnot is our best option.

Look at this logically. Arnot has been playing pretty poor football in the seconds, and people want to pit him up as our grunt inside midfielder against an AFL finals quality team? Take a few breaths and erasing the mistake in the last quarter, think about the true measure of Lonergan's game last night? I can tell you now it wasn't bad enough to be dropped. First game in the AFL this year, coming back from injury and he was in the mix for some critical statistics for our team. Arnot is not ready for AFL. When he begins knocking down the door then this discussion can be had but I can't see how Arnot can benefit Richmond at this stage.

The other side of the coin is Liam McBean. He's in ripping form in the VFL. Richmond supporters can't help but get excited over him. However, since we have such a gem in our hands we need to care for it correctly. The last thing we want to do is ruin his development. Bringing him up for one game, him being bashed about by huge bodies, subbing him out due to poor performance and then dropping him again serves only one purpose. A severe drop in confidence. It happened with Elton last year and it will happen again if McBean gets the call-up. Look at him, he is still a stick! He's tracking along very very nicely at Coburg so let's keep it this way. Only way McBean should get a game this year would be a massive injury run to the KPF department. Even so, Elton, Astbury, Stephenson, Derickx, Griffiths and Edwards are all ahead of him.

 

[tugga]

which begs my question- has the list improved under hardwick and his team of coaches? My answer is negative.

The list has improved. You are embarrassing yourself by saying it hasn't. Think back three years to the day and then fast forward to now. the list has improved enormously.
Whether it can take the next step under Hardwick is another question.
But if you don't think the list hasn't improved under Hardwick's coaching then you don't watch games, which I believe to be the case quite literally.

 

[tugga]

Presuming Conca is not right and knowing Tuck is a long way away and that Ellis will be OK.

In: Edwards, Ellis, Dea
Out: McGuane, Nahas, Lonergan

Ellis comes straight in obviously. Nahas goes out after a very poor display.
McGuane isn't working. Wouldn't rule him out for the season, but we need to mix it up a bit and get Edwards in to see what he can bring. The other option would be Griffiths as our 2nd tall, but Edwards' form is better and deserves it.
Lonergan should never have been gifted that game on the weekend. I'd rather we try and develop Dea and get some games into him to see if he can cut it.
Very tempted to want McBean in for Vickery. But Vickery did play well against Melbourne, which means it will be another three weeks until he plays his next good game. McBean will get his chance in good time.
Foley hasn't been anywhere near good, but he has missed so much footy, it is pointless dropping him. I am hoping he can come good...but...