Autopsy Round 9 vs Essendon plus changes

[Barnzy]

Hardwick said Ellis won't be ready for the West Coast game in the post match presser. Back after the bye with Conca.

Pretty much why we're up against it. No matter what changes we make with who's available I struggle to see us beating a full strength West Coast over there.

 

[cairo tiger]

The list has improved. You are embarrassing yourself by saying it hasn't. Think back three years to the day and then fast forward to now. the list has improved enormously.
Whether it can take the next step under Hardwick is another question.
But if you don't think the list has improved under Hardwick's coaching then you don't watch games, which I believe to be the case quite literally.

what you are failing to realise is that the list may have improved but specifc players actually havent that much. name them if you want. who?
to keep pace with all teams improvment we need to improve more than them and I say we have not done that. it is the coaches role to improve stoppages, centre breaks, fwd entries, where is the improvement? maybe some in defence....where else mate?
I watch as many games as I can- last night I saw the game on TV, listened to talk back and talked to mates. Thats what you would probably do as well. what has that got to do with it? l
I say that he has got us up from then bottom- to where? to maybe 10th? 9th? We need more improvement in 4 years. we need to be in the 8. embarrassing myself? not as much as the game plan and the way some of our players show their ineptness in disposing of the ball.

 

[tugga]

what you are failing to realise is that the list may have improved but specifc players actually havent that much. name them if you want. who?
to keep pace with all teams improvment we need to improve more than them and I say we have not done that. it is the coaches role to improve stoppages, centre breaks, fwd entries, where is the improvement? maybe some in defence....where else mate?
I watch as many games as I can- last night I saw the game on TV, listened to talk back and talked to mates. Thats what you would probably do as well. what has that got to do with it? l
I say that he has got us up from then bottom- to where? to maybe 10th? 9th? We need more improvement in 4 years. we need to be in the 8. embarrassing myself? not as much as the game plan and the way some of our players show their ineptness in disposing of the ball.

Why didn't you say this in the first place? Absolutely nothing wrong with what you wrote here and all valid arguments.
But you did ask in the first place in black and white whether the list had improved under Hardwick so forgive me for taking you literally because with the written word, that's all I can do.
I apologise for the not watching games comment.

 

[theflea]

what you are failing to realise is that the list may have improved but specifc players actually havent that much. name them if you want. who?
to keep pace with all teams improvment we need to improve more than them and I say we have not done that. it is the coaches role to improve stoppages, centre breaks, fwd entries, where is the improvement? maybe some in defence....where else mate?
I watch as many games as I can- last night I saw the game on TV, listened to talk back and talked to mates. Thats what you would probably do as well. what has that got to do with it? l
I say that he has got us up from then bottom- to where? to maybe 10th? 9th? We need more improvement in 4 years. we need to be in the 8. embarrassing myself? not as much as the game plan and the way some of our players show their ineptness in disposing of the ball.

I think we have improved our stoppages actually.

 

[Tiger68]

I'm not advocating dropping Maric, but he has been very poor this year. Even before the injury. I don't think he can take us where we want to go, the ruck is our biggest issue IMO. We need to recruit genuine ruck talent in his prime, Maric can push for a spot as the second ruck or be used as depth.

 

[tugga]

I'm not advocating dropping Maric, but he has been very poor this year. Even before the injury. I don't think he can take us where we want to go, the ruck is our biggest issue IMO. We need to recruit genuine ruck talent in his prime, Maric can push for a spot as the second ruck or be used as depth.

I don't think he's been particularly bad, but it's just that he had such a dominant 2012 that it masks every other year he has had at AFL level. Maybe he will be a one-year wonder.
But if bellchambers and Ryder monstered him on the weekend, I absolutely shudder to think what Cox and Nicnat are going to do Stephenson if he comes in. Orren would need to be taking a separate suitcase of anal lube on the flight to Perth.

 

[CoggaRules]

Dissapointing once again. Big game, big stage etc and we bring nothing. Embarrassing to think so many of us marched to the G for another blockbuster against an arch enemy and had to sit there and basically have nothing whatsoever to get enthused about. I mean, apart from the first couple of minutes and about 1.5 minutes in the last...it was as if the bummers put a break on us and we played footy as if we had the lead...i.e nothing was done, no inspiration. Dimma has NFI or refuses to, on how and when to pull something out of his arse, to at least change the status quo to see if it will change the result.
Take your ****ing head out of the ****ing stats book Dimma and start coaching with bravado and making moves and putting your nouse on the line FFS, instead of sitting there for 3.9 quarters hoping the moon is going to go blue and some how the scoreboard will show us in front.!!! Time is approaching Dimma...sorry to say dude but you are a resource like the players are and you are now looking like you have reached your limit...better up the ante or you are gaaaaaaaawwwwwwwnnnnn.

 

[Riskingheadandshin]

I'm not advocating dropping Maric, but he has been very poor this year. Even before the injury. I don't think he can take us where we want to go, the ruck is our biggest issue IMO. We need to recruit genuine ruck talent in his prime, Maric can push for a spot as the second ruck or be used as depth.

He is a shadow of last year. He fumbles, drops marks and just doesn't seem to impact the game anything like last year.

 

[CoggaRules]

I'm not advocating dropping Maric, but he has been very poor this year. Even before the injury. I don't think he can take us where we want to go, the ruck is our biggest issue IMO. We need to recruit genuine ruck talent in his prime, Maric can push for a spot as the second ruck or be used as depth.

Sorry but i have to disagree with this...its Ty who needs to pull his finger out and deliver on this so called potential and become the first ruck..well lets make it easy for him, for 10 minutes in a game at least...he is totally ****ed as a ruckman atm and Maric needs someone to help him out...

 

[Damo80]

We played a brand that didn't match our ability...

I'd rather get smashed by a much better team than watch a team who is no better beat us because we play a shit brand.

Have you considered the possibility that we actually did play a team that is clearly better than us, and they beat us, not only by being better than us, but by playing a game plan that totally dismantled our game plan?

That's certainly what I saw. So as far as I'm concerned, the issue is that our players aren't capable of executing the game plan against good sides (sadly, that list seems to be growing!), and further, that there doesn't appear to be a plan B when plan A is not working...

 

[ShaneDoan]

Despite a few costly errors, Nahas when in the forward line has convinced me he should be selected before White who did little in his quite lengthy time on field considering he was the sub.

While my changes aren't super radical, I feel they are fresh enough and different enough to the same ins and outs RFC have been doing the last few weeks. The clubs choices of White in and Nahas out and then White out and Nahas in continuously is obviously not working and it is time to give some other players a shot.

Normally I am a fan of both McGuane and White, but their recent performances have even failed my expectations of them. Everyone is raving about Arnot and I feel he can give some more of the hard footy we need ala Vlastuin. We didn't recruit Edwards to have him kick bags in the VFL all year. McGuane's poor recent form and Edwards own good form warrants a switch up and trial - simply to see if Edwards works any better than what we have going on.

Seriously I think our team is going stale, swap things up. Not everything that should be working is so for the love of god please RFC, try some new blokes.

In: Edwards, Arnot
Out: McGuane, White

 

[partycorolla]

Hadn't had a chance to read the stuff on here but I think it's all pretty easy to work out why we didn't win:

Didn't have the cattle: No Tuck, Conca, Ellis, Knights (all mids/rotating mids) and Grimes out. We are not good enough to beat the Bombers (or any other top 4 aspirants) without these guys. Bombers had probably a full list to pick from (from what I can remember). Not an excuse, but a reason. With our best side in, my gut is that we are still not as good as the Bombers but without these guys, really no chance.

Scared: Not scared of the contest, but scared to take the game on, scared to run hard offensively, scared to make the dangerous kick that will open up play, to scared to make a possible positive mistake. Has been the same all season..... sorry, it has been the same all season when we play decent sides, we actually respect their ability to hurt us on the turnover too much. When we play weaker sides, we feel more confident in our ability level and we tend to try to take the game on more. As a result the ball gets chipped around until it ends up with one of our weaker kicks.... Jacko, Rance, Vickery, Grigg, Nahas etc and what do you know...turnover or 50/50.

Fix the lack of belief (not easy I know) and hope we keep more of our cattle on the park. This and our guns actually need to stop playing so safe and take the game on. Foley should be thinking he needs to take a bounce every time he gets possession, same with Lids, Martin should don't argue 1 player per possie, Cotchin should get 3 possies in every chain he's involved with and so forth.... obviously I'm a bit over the top but our guns need to take on the game more.....especially while Conca, Tuck and co are out.

Changes:
Out: Nahas....set up the win for the opposition, McGuane (now it's time), Lonergan (maybe)
In: Arnott, A.Edwards (need to see what he's got)/McBean (he's not ready but he's crumbing better than Nahas this season and he's a foot taller!), Dea/Helbig/Conca (if fit)

 

[Tiger68]

I take it Edwards was an Emergency on Saturday? Was that the reason he didn't play at Coburg? I'm by no means convinced he is the answer but McGuanne has lost his mojo and at some point you need to give Edwards a crack.

 

[Bird Man]

Dont think you could bag houli on last nights effort. Tried hard. grigg on the other hand.....

i know, but i have a particular thing for half backs who cant tackel and are out shined by 18/19 years olds in Vlas and Ellis in defensive pressure

 

[Bird Man]

dont care if he is a first year player give Mcbean a crack

 

[axel2cotch2lids]

Seriously? Lids was tagged all game and got injured. He was AA last year, I'm sure that makes him a pretty good Mid.
You complain about no midfield strength and then want to take out Jackson.
Do you really think A.Edwards and Stephenson will be better than Vickery and McGaune? That means either Maric or Stephenson will have to play up forward, leaving us with basically only 2 actual forward options and A.Edwards got delisted for a reason.

IMHO LIds is an AA Half-back not in the midfield. He belongs at half-back with an occasional run in midfield ala Goodard. There is nothing wrong with that.

Everytime Vickery goes into the ruck we get slaughtered and lose momentum and his forward line work is hit and miss to say the least. Stephensen is more than competitive in ruck and can jag the odd goal as a forward. I would send Vickery back as the #1 ruck at Coburg until his ruck work is AFL ready.

Jackson is a liability. His tagging often has no effect and his disposal is no longer acceptable at AFL level. I want to replace Jackson with Arnot. No loss of strength there.

And finally A.Edwards is far better forward than McGuane.

We traded for Edwards. He may have been delisted if we didnt - but we did trade for him which means he wasnt delisted.

Edwards has kicked 124 goals in 82 games, with a 100 season in the VFL. What has McGuane done again?

That would leave us with Jack, Edwards and the 2nd ruck. Exactly what we have now except that the balance of the team is far better.

 

[Capitano_Cotch]

Who? I can think of Roughead and Naitanui.

Only those 2? Wow.

How about Ryder, Bellchambers?
Plus many more.
The problem with Vickery is the following:

He may be able to play 2 positions on the field due to his height and athletic capabilities.
However, that doesn't mean that he is exactly good in both positions.
In fact, I think he is a below average ruck and an average forward.
Has kicked a brilliant total of 0 goals over the past 2 weeks which is not good enough, plain and simple.
Our problem is that with Vickery's insipid displays in front of goals, we are still far too predictable in looking for jumping Jack. Other teams have this figured out.
The fact that Luke Mcguane is our second highest goalscorer for the year is terrible.
Premiership forward line of Riewoldt and Mcguane? Doubt it. Would rather give youth a go.
In my opinion, if Vickery is to play, forget putting him in the centre bounces.
I think we can afford to keep him in the forward line the entire match (where he is much better) and play a second ruck.
May seem like a lot of talls in the side, but I think we need it.

 

[Squibbs]

Out: Nahas, McGuane.

In: Arnott, Edwards.

**** it, bring them in. See what they've got. Better than having two spuds out there.

 

[che88]

nahas not up to it.mcguane love him but he is limited.cotchin and deledio when game was to be won watson stood up they did not.love edwards,rance,morris and chaplin but there disposal was woeful.a poor mans hawthorn game plan.we have the midfielders but until we find the birchalls,burgoyes,suckings,hills,hodge,and gibson we are f@#*ed.

 

[TiggerMan22]

IMHO LIds is an AA Half-back not in the midfield. He belongs at half-back with an occasional run in midfield ala Goodard. There is nothing wrong with that.

Everytime Vickery goes into the ruck we get slaughtered and lose momentum and his forward line work is hit and miss to say the least. Stephensen is more than competitive in ruck and can jag the odd goal as a forward. I would send Vickery back as the #1 ruck at Coburg until his ruck work is AFL ready.

Jackson is a liability. His tagging often has no effect and his disposal is no longer acceptable at AFL level. I want to replace Jackson with Arnot. No loss of strength there.

And finally A.Edwards is far better forward than McGuane.

We traded for Edwards. He may have been delisted if we didnt - but we did trade for him which means he wasnt delisted.

Edwards has kicked 124 goals in 82 games, with a 100 season in the VFL. What has McGuane done again?

That would leave us with Jack, Edwards and the 2nd ruck. Exactly what we have now except that the balance of the team is far better.

Vickery has been alright in the ruck this season and a much better forward. He is definitely ahead of Stephenson.

Jackson has tagged a few out of the game his season, hes a great tackler (something we need) and adds toughness to our midfield. Arnot is a first gamer, hes not going to give us anything near what Jackson does.

Hes been a forward his whole career, only kicks goals and does that inconsistently. McGuane has only been a forward the last 2 seasons so his goal tally is no where near Edwards. But McGuane actually has a defensive side and is also a very good mark. VFL stats mean nothing in the AFL.

 

[TheDyerLegacy]

Where do I start?

I am not one to say "sack the COACH!" or "What a dud DELIST!". I feel nearly every player has a strength but when the strength is heavily outweighed by their weaknesses that's when maybe that player has to go.

Firstly Hardwick. I love what he has done for us. Though as a matchday couch i think he just doesn't have it. For example the win again Port a couple weeks ago, the game plan worked so nothing needed to be changed game day. Last night it didn't work and he was clueless. All he could say what i don't know what went wrong. not good enough Dimma. That what you are being paid for. Look at Malthouse round 1 things weren't working made changes and they nearly won the game. I just dont think he is capable of pulling stings on matchday.

Now to the players. I just dont think we will be a good side with the current list. Its all fun and games to beat up on opponents when we are up and about but they need to stand up when the times are tough. There is a saying, "champions breed champions" and unfortunately for us we haven't had a champion in over 30 years. Campbell? Knights? Richardson? A far cry from a Voss, Hird or Ablett. Deledio or Cotchin needed to stand up just like Watson did. They only player i saw attempting to take the game on was a young man by the name of Vlastuin. A first year player that reeks of leaderships. Captain of the Vic Metro.
The players below I dont see a future at the club.
Jackson; Can have 40 touches he will not make an impact. Has to be one of the slowest players with and without the football.
Grigg; Same as above and is soft as they come. Front runner of the highest order.

There is more I want to mention but I still have hope for others.

I cbf writing anymore and apologizes for the poor editing and writing.

 

[cairo tiger]

Where do I start?

I am not one to say "sack the COACH!" or "What a dud DELIST!". I feel nearly every player has a strength but when the strength is heavily outweighed by their weaknesses that's when maybe that player has to go.

Firstly Hardwick. I love what he has done for us. Though as a matchday couch i think he just doesn't have it. For example the win again Port a couple weeks ago, the game plan worked so nothing needed to be changed game day. Last night it didn't work and he was clueless. All he could say what i don't know what went wrong. not good enough Dimma. That what you are being paid for. Look at Malthouse round 1 things weren't working made changes and they nearly won the game. I just dont think he is capable of pulling stings on matchday.

Now to the players. I just dont think we will be a good side with the current list. Its all fun and games to beat up on opponents when we are up and about but they need to stand up when the times are tough. There is a saying, "champions breed champions" and unfortunately for us we haven't had a champion in over 30 years. Campbell? Knights? Richardson? A far cry from a Voss, Hird or Ablett. Deledio or Cotchin needed to stand up just like Watson did. They only player i saw attempting to take the game on was a young man by the name of Vlastuin. A first year player that reeks of leaderships. Captain of the Vic Metro.
The players below I dont see a future at the club.
Jackson; Can have 40 touches he will not make an impact. Has to be one of the slowest players with and without the football.
Grigg; Same as above and is soft as they come. Front runner of the highest order.

There is more I want to mention but I still have hope for others.

I cbf writing anymore and apologizes for the poor editing and writing.

spot on.

we shit ourselves just when the supporters want more.

our coaching dept are clueless when we need to keep the game plan simple and play to our strengths we come up with basketball keep away which we cannot execute, and clearly they have not developed the players. its time to send clear messages to some of these passengers, lets drop them and bring in those that want to provide contest after contest.

 

[docko911]

Bring in the wholesale changes:

B: Astbury, Chaplin, Rance
HB: Deledio, Batchelor, Newman
C: Houli, Cotchin, Morris
HF: Vlastuin, Riewoldt, Martin
F: King, Maric, McGuane
R: Stephenson, Foley, Jackson
Int: Arnot, S.Edwards, Helbig
Sub: White (only for pace)

To me that looks a lot more dangerous than a team with Grigg, Nahas, Vickery and Lonergan in it... I'd consider Dea before any of those players as well incase we have any injuries.

What does everyone think?

 

[Capitano_Cotch]

Bring in the wholesale changes:

B: Astbury, Chaplin, Rance
HB: Deledio, Batchelor, Newman
C: Houli, Cotchin, Morris
HF: Vlastuin, Riewoldt, Martin
F: King, Maric, McGuane
R: Stephenson, Foley, Jackson
Int: Arnot, S.Edwards, Helbig
Sub: White (only for pace)

To me that looks a lot more dangerous than a team with Grigg, Nahas, Vickery and Lonergan in it... I'd consider Dea before any of those players as well incase we have any injuries.

What does everyone think?

Mcguane for Edwards and you have yourself a deal.

 

[Bird Man]

Mcguane for Edwards and you have yourself a deal.

Or Mcbean !!!!