- Jul 13, 2015
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I'd say most people who convicted him years ago wont change their mind in the slightest.
Of course the same can be said of him being found guilty on a number of charges.
The Law Royal Commission into Child Abuse
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I'd say most people who convicted him years ago wont change their mind in the slightest.
Of course the same can be said of him being found guilty on a number of charges.
jenny61_99
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Of course it is.
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Another who simply can't be bothered doing a little research into why sexual abuse hearings are held in camera.
jenny61_99
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I know full well why SOME sexual abuse hearings have been held in camera. For the majority of the RC, though, this has not been the case.
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Certainly. But I can tell you I'd want, as part of the guilty findings, an explanation of two things that I know from my own experience to be true.
1. What were the circumstances leading to the extremely unusual situation of a couple of choir boys having access to the sacristy at the Cathedral in the first place and the Archbishop wandering into the sacristy unaccompanied some period of time after Mass. The Cathedral is not like a parish Church. And the Archbishop is not like a Parish Priest. The kids don't have access to the sacristy. Their changing rooms are elsewhere and the sacristy is always locked. And moreover, the Archbishop never hangs around for any period of time after Mass. He greets the parishioners, then he goes. If the described scenario was a parish situation, it might make sense. But this doesn't.
2. Why was George Pell never amongst the discussions between boys of priests to be avoided in Ballarat. The boys all knew who the perps were, and I know at least a dozen of these boys. All of them say the same thing. George Pell wasn't one of those whispered about.
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You have just made that up.
jenny61_99
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Yeah, nah. I listened or watched much of the testimony over the duration. There were a few victims who chose not to be named, and gave evidence in camera, but the majority chose very bravely to come forward.
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You're talking about the Royal Commission, and you are very wrong about the majority.
jenny61_99
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There were significant LIVE testimonies throughout the commission. You are putting forward that it doesn't happen. It does.
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No. I'm not at all. I am saying that the majority of sexual abuse matters held in camera in criminal proceedings are done so for the reason of protection of the accuser's identity.
There were some LIVE testimonies at the Royal Commission, which is not the same as a criminal proceeding. There were over 8,000 private hearings. Pell's 3 appearances were televised live.
No one knows precisely why the charges against Pell are being held in camera, but the suggestion, given the weight of all that has come before, that it is at Pell's request is simply stupid. And gives a great deal of substance to the sense many have, including myself, that the whole thing is a witch hunt.
jenny61_99
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Why are you standing up for him?
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Bruce is the resident RCC rep.
jenny61_99
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I figured as much. And look, to be fair, the man is to be considered innocent until proven otherwise. But I cannot fathom anyone - whether RC or not - publicly defending Pell after everything we know.
jenny61_99
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Yes they have, but their brief was far too limited. While child sex abuse by adults in authority within these institutions was abhorrent... the REAL elephant in the room was never addressed. Until we do that, the Royal Commission won't even begin to scratch the surface.
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It’s what I know that gives cause to defend him. There is stuff that continues to be reported as fact despite it being known that it can’t be true. Such as witnessing first hand abuse in Ballarat when his passport shows he was in Rome. Or altar boys overheating conversations that records show couldn’t have occurred and I know couldn’t have been overheard in the way described. If Pell is guilty of abuse, he can rot. But the breathless excitement whenever an allegation is made sickens me, especially when the breathlessly excited should know they have been fooled more than once already.
What do you “know” already?
- Jul 13, 2015
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I would judge the success on convictions, not on referrals. The Pink Batts RC made many findings but it considered by many a witch hunt. So too the RC in to trade unions. Heaps of findings there too.
Nothing you know has been tested in court. And I dare say what you know is very little, like the rest of us.
But Im sure that is enough to hang him. Afterall, he looks guilty. Right?
Very true. Most government institutions got away with very minimal investigation. So too Islamic groups. And of course the biggest destroyer of lives being family members of victims and the failure of the government to properly investigate when complaints are made.
Its like William Tyrrell's mother coming out and saying he was let down by the foster system. Well, he wouldnt have been with a foster family if there were no issues with his actual parents.
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The point is if there are no convictions then it doesnt matter how many items were referred to the police. It just means someone complained and the commission passed it on without really looking in to the veracity of the complaint.
I thought that would be obvious.
You know, like how heaps of trade union officials were referred to the police yet very few even ended up facing charges. Not even sure if anyone went to gaol.
Want me to link to a post which you Liked which made this very point?
Why is it different with this royal commission?
Maggie5
Moderator
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Okay then.
You don't think that it helped those that experienced abuse who were not listened to or believed?
You don't think that they will be able to seek professional assistance will help?
You don't think that this commission hearing should make institutions aware that they no longer can cover up abuse?
Of those that have been convicted, you don't think some justice has been achieved?
You do know that it is not over and some are still to come before the courts?
You do know that some members of the various institutions have admitted to knowing what was happening don't you?
I am not interested in your thoughts on unions or pink batts in this thread, thanks anyway.
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Im sure for some victims it was helpful.
Im pretty sure they had already previously been offered professional assistance.
How many of the claims were from the last 5 years, and how many were more than 20 years old?
Obviously its good that guilty people have been convicted. But how many were found by the RC and then prosecuted? What percentage of the claims made at the RC had not previously been heard in any of the previous state and federal investigations, as well as police and prosecutors (I.e. what percentage were wholly new claims)?
Im pretty aware of at least one case which is before a court.
And yes. But unfortunately we left out a whole heap of institutions and groups where there are allegedly very high rates of abuse (Aboriginal communities being one, Islamic institutions being another - why did they not get included? Do we not value the lives of Aboriginal and Muslim kids?)
I'll reiterate the last one.
But unfortunately we left out a whole heap of institutions and groups where there are allegedly very high rates of abuse (Aboriginal communities being one, Islamic institutions being another - why did they not get included? Do we not value the lives of Aboriginal and Muslim kids?)
Why did Gillard decide to avoid those 2 groups? Only logical reason I can think of is that she doesnt care about those groups. She wouldnt have chosen politics over the lives of kids, would she? Afterall, she was our best Prime Minister in decades.
Maggie5
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Interesting that you bring up Muslims, the Bolt report also raised it April 2017.
I don't have any answers to your particular questions but have you read the 'Terms of Reference'?
Not sure that it specified which institutions or religions to investigate.
Why can't you stick to thread title? You tried unions, pink batts now we are on to Gillard.
I don't have any answers to your particular questions but have you read the 'Terms of Reference'?
Not sure that it specified which institutions or religions to investigate.
Why can't you stick to thread title? You tried unions, pink batts now we are on to Gillard.
- Jul 13, 2015
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I would say I am. Questioning why child abuse in Aboriginal communities and Islamic groups was ignored given especially high rates in Aboriginal communities.
You seem to ignore that in each of my posts.
White guilt?
- Jul 13, 2015
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The terms that sought to exclude a couple of key areas where abuse happens frequently? Maybe we will save the Aboriginal kids next time eh?
