Current - Royal Commission into gangland convictions on tainted evidence & police corruption | Page 13 | BigFooty

Current Royal Commission into gangland convictions on tainted evidence & police corruption

Discussion in 'Crime' started by shellyg, Dec 1, 2018.

  1. BFew

    BFew Debutant

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    Who is Sly?
     
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  2. shellyg

    shellyg Community Leader

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    John Silvester or Sly of the Underworld. Just quietly, perhaps he might be a little bit concerned. :poo::poo::poo:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Silvester_(writer)

     
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  3. petedavo

    petedavo Team Captain

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    The public will expect Police, Prosecutors & Judges associated with any of this to be stood down until the Royal Commission clears them TBH. I don't think that they can damage control any of it. This will kill many careers, and reputations even if the Royal Commission white washed all of it.

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  4. Slartibartfast

    Slartibartfast Club Legend

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  5. petedavo

    petedavo Team Captain

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    I think it reprehensible that the Herald should mention the kindergarten. There's a suppression order for a reason. In the scheme of things, that could hardly be to protect her professional reputation, and I'd assume it must be to protect her family from physical harm. Publishing that detail IMO might expose her family to physical risk from the reach of those types of people who would do such things IMO. It beggars belief just how salacious journalism can get when the editors see the potential of flogging more papers and thus selling more advertising space.

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  6. shellyg

    shellyg Community Leader

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    Timeline.

    • January 1998 to June 2003
      Alphonse Gangitano, Mark Moran, Richard Mladenich, Victor Peirce and Shane Chartres-Abbott are among the growing body count of the gangland war.
    • Mid-2003 to July 2004
      The lawyer meets six times with a detective from the Purana gangland taskforce.
    • June 21, 2003
      Jason Moran and Pasquale Barbaro executed in front of five children at an Auskick game.
    • March 2004 to May 2004
      Andrew Veniamin, Lewis Moran, Terrence Blewitt and Lewis Caine murdered.
    • May 16 2004
      Terence and Christine Hodson murdered in their home in Kew.
    • September 16, 2005
      The lawyer is registered as Informer 3838.
    • April and March 2006
      3838 provides information to police about her client’s drug lab and then represents him. He was a cook for Tony Mokbel.
    • March 2006
      Tony Mokbel flees just before sentencing after pleading guilty to drug trafficking. The lawyer acted for him at trial when she was informing on him. She cites him as a prime motivator for turning informer.
    • April 2007
      Carl Williams makes first statement to police about officer Paul Dale.
    • May 2007
      Petra Taskforce is established to investigate the Hodson murders and links to police corruption.
    • August 2008
      Robert Karam, Pasquale Barbaro, Frank Madafferi, Pasquali Sergi and Saverio Zirilli arrested over what was lauded as world’s biggest single shipment of ecstasy hidden in tomato tins and shipped from Italy.
    • December 7, 2008
      The lawyer covertly records Dale at a cafe before she makes a statement in early 2009.
    • January 12, 2009
      The lawyer is deregistered as Informer 3838.
    • February 13, 2009
      Dale is arrested.
    • June 30, 2009
      Hand-up brief in the Dale case is found in prison.
    • July 2, 2009
      The lawyer is relocated to Queensland.
    • August 17, 2009
      Trial begins for Faruk Orman, gangland getaway driver in the murder of Victor Peirce. The lawyer acted for him in the trial; concerns she also turned the key witness against Orman into an informer.
    • August 26, 2009
      Police are trying to get the lawyer into witness protection. She is warned by Deputy Commissioner Kieran Walshe that she was at “extreme risk of harm” after SMS death threats and the ad hoc security arrangements were an unacceptable risk.
    • March 2010
      Dale’s committal hearing for Hodson murders begin. The lawyer, called to testify as “witness F”, doesn’t go to court.
    • April 19, 2010
      Williams is killed in Barwon prison by fellow prisoner Matthew Johnson.
    • April 20, 2010
      The lawyer rejects an offer of witness protection via her solicitors and sues the state.
    • June 4, 2010
      Murder charge against Dale is dropped.
    • September 25, 2010
      The lawyer settles lawsuit against Victoria Police for almost $3 million.
    • November 9, 2011
      The lawyer refuses to testify against Dale in committal hearing for charges of lying to the ACC.
    • July 30, 2012
      ‘Comrie review’ into handling of the lawyer as informant completed.
    • April 2014
      Herald Sun publishes first “Lawyer X” story.
    • July 14, 2014
      IBAC commences investigation.
    • July 22, 2016
      Karam files appeal, saying he didn’t receive a fair trial, claiming the lawyer acted as “agent provocateur” when representing him.
    • December 3, 2018
      Supreme Court lifts suppression orders, High Court hands down its judgment and royal commission is announced.
     
  7. BFew

    BFew Debutant

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    https://www.australasianlawyer.com....cement-oversight-law-council-says-258394.aspx

    What legal advice did the those in the Vic Police hierarchy, request, receive and act or not act on, when managing the issue of lawyers acting as counsel for the defendant, potential defendants, or convicted persons, while also covertly informing against them?
     
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  8. shellyg

    shellyg Community Leader

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  9. Melsy

    Melsy All Australian

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    Police were using LawyerX to rinse out the corrupt cops
     
  10. petedavo

    petedavo Team Captain

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    “There has never been a more significant revelation than what came out of the High Court judgement. It has the potential to uncover misconduct on an incredible scale, travelling from the informer herself all the way to the highest offices of law enforcement,”

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    Last edited: Dec 8, 2018 at 12:50 PM
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  11. Melsy

    Melsy All Australian

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    If it is alleged no one can predict the outcome. If only a few were the Lawyers clients, how can anyone make a statement as fact as to misconduct?

    What will be interesting, is the conduct of officers prying the 'registered' informant for information to rinse out the corrupt officers dealing with organised crime?

    In the fray, what will be the items of misconduct?

    What happens if there is none?
     

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  12. petedavo

    petedavo Team Captain

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    You're looking in the entirety wrong direction Mels. Read the article and the High Court decision again.
    The allegations are seemingly directed at Police hierarchy, not the crooks, nor corrupt police, but at Overland's & others actions in registering and using Lawyer X, and also Lawyer X's actions. It will make no difference if they were clients at the time or not. It's the fact that she was admitted to the Victorian bar. She was a Barrister and officer of the Court 24/7/365. The corruption is against her role, against the Court, against the office, against jurisprudence, and against the separation of powers.

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    Last edited: Dec 8, 2018 at 1:31 PM
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  13. petedavo

    petedavo Team Captain

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    It was done to influence outcomes by the judiciary. To get people charged and found guilty. If that is not a clear interference by the enforcers of the Law with the Judiciary, I don't know what is.

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  14. BFew

    BFew Debutant

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    Way way back many years ago under the Bracks State Government, in the year prior to Lawyer X's official 2005 duties.

    https://www.theage.com.au/national/corruption-new-powers-on-way-20040603-gdxyvn.html
    3 June 2004

    Did the Bracks State Government provide the ombudsman/special commissioner with powers in a way that legalised or legitimised or encouraged undercover operations using Defence Lawyer(s), or from not at the same time, having exclusions and safeguards in these powers that would have led to different actions and outcomes from the mess we are now in?

    Did something go astray in the the Ombudsman delegating these powers to the special commissioner.
    Or between the special commissioner, Vic Police and other parties to the decision making process that led to undercover operations using Defence Lawyer(s).
     
  15. petedavo

    petedavo Team Captain

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    http://www.walk.com.au/pedestriancouncil/Page.asp?PageID=339
    Police Accountability and Oversight: An Overview
    A.M. Gleeson AC
    Chief Justice of the High Court of Australia (Article published when the Hon Murray Gleeson AC was Chief Justice of NSW

    Extracts»

    "The fact that the police force is part of the executive branch of government carries with it, as a corollary, certain consequences flowing from the principle of separation of powers."

    "First, police do not exercise legislative power; that is to say, they do not make laws. This observation may seem trite, but its implications are sometimes overlooked. Less obvious, but equally important is the need to guard against vesting in the police discretionary powers which, for practical purposes, may amount to powers to make law, or to dispense with the compliance with the law."

    "A second consequence of the separation of powers is that it is no part of the function of the police to exercise judicial power. It is for the judiciary, not the police, to determine whether people are guilty or innocent of crimes, and it is for the judiciary, not the police, to punish citizens who have broken the law. To take one simple but important example, the power of arrest is a power that is given for the purpose of taking into custody suspected wrongdoers in circumstances where such custody is necessary for the proper administration of justice. It is not a power that is to be exercised punitively. The police are not given a power to arrest suspected offenders for the purpose of enabling the police *to punish such people, and the exercise of a power of arrest for such a purpose would be a serious abuse of power."

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  16. Slartibartfast

    Slartibartfast Club Legend

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    I am fascinated by this aspect.
    They would have been told they were on solid ground but on what basis??
    Just makes me think there is more to this than we know but I cannot fathom what that is.
     
  17. Chameleon75

    Chameleon75 Norm Smith Medallist

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    It very much matters if they are clients or not, that’s the heart of the matter, you’re suggesting that a barrister cannot report a crime under any circumstance. What they cannot do is provide information to police on the very charges they’re engaged to advocate against without that privilege being first waived by the client. The issue with the police is they’re alleged to have conspired with a defense advocate to stitch up their client.
     
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  18. shellyg

    shellyg Community Leader

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    Poor Paul Dale on a righteous rant wants senior police charged over LawyerX, maybe even the DPP.

    The only reason drug charges against Dale were dropped was because the Hodsons were conveniently killed and his murder charges for the Hodsons went nowhere because Carl was conveniently killed and LawyerX refused to go witness against.

    Poor Paul. :rolleyes:

    https://www.theage.com.au/national/...g-barrister-as-informant-20181208-p50l0y.html
     
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  19. shellyg

    shellyg Community Leader

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    Vic police spent $4.52 million trying to stop the LawyerX scandal becoming public.



    Simon might lose his $400,000 p.a. job.[​IMG]
     
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  20. petedavo

    petedavo Team Captain

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    An aggravating circumstance, but many people seek legal advice without contracting the lawyer. One would expect advice to be a privileged if it's from a discussion with a lawyer, they swore an oath of office, and thus like judges, police, military officers they are what they are 24/7/365, they don't have the luxury of being private citizens ever whilst they hold their commissions, unlike Joe blow serving behind the counter at Bunnings on a wage. Being admitted to the bar does have onerous responsibilities, one of which is that you don't stop those responsibilities when you're not charging a small wage packet an hour, or more if you're a QC. They're not private individuals after dark, regardless of jokes about being blood sucking vampires and such like.

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  21. Chameleon75

    Chameleon75 Norm Smith Medallist

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    If one has sort and received legal advice then they have engaged a lawyer it’s not dependent on an invoice being issued. Privilege applies.

    But your talking about privilege being this blanket that prevents them from reporting any crime, irrespective of if it’s a client.

    Even in respect to their clients it’s not a coverall, there are circumstances when their obliged to report or even appear as a witness against their client.
     
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  22. petedavo

    petedavo Team Captain

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    Reporting a crime to police is different to police engaging a human source to discover information IMO. Registered human sources are generally paid for their services and have a handler who checks that the human source has credible access to information on criminal activities, then asks the human source for information about such criminal activities, or asks the human source to gather information about certain suspected criminal enterprises and report it back usually.
    They wouldn't register a human source who just voluntarily reports information about a crime as they would be more valuable as a witness in Court instead, I'd assume. Maybe someone who knows more about this sort of thing would be able to iron it out for us?

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  23. shellyg

    shellyg Community Leader

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    Can anyone remember the name of the woman who was tasked with the Paul Dale prosecution? It was Italian I think, she broke her foot and was getting around on crutches for a while.
     
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