Current Royal Commission into gangland convictions on tainted evidence & police corruption

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GreyCrow

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IMO, much of this arises for two reasons.

1) They are not representing laws that are reflective of the will of the people, due to a political system that is detached from the populace.
I'm not sure this is correct. I think you are wanting the tail to wag the dog. You correctly point out the political system is detached from the populace but I dont think our laws reflect this. I think you are confusing sentencing - Judiciary- with what people want

I think people are happy with the current laws in place - its the sentencing most have concerns with.


2) There is no genuine oversight mechanism to keep corruption in check, nor is there any intention to create one.
I will agree with this.
 

Snake_Baker

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I'm not sure this is correct. I think you are wanting the tail to wag the dog. You correctly point out the political system is detached from the populace but I dont think our laws reflect this.
They are the front line face of the enforcement arm of the state.

I think you are confusing sentencing - Judiciary- with what people want..
No, i'm not.
 

Snake_Baker

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Because I am interested in seeing how opposite.

I am a libertarian who believes in direct democracy, and you're a statist who doesn't believe the existing position is hard enough, so what's the point?

If you want my view then start with every single piece of criminal legal legislation that was not directly itemised as a political election platform. This should take you about 5 years.

"Tough on crime" accounts for all sorts of absurd misreprsentative ********.
 

GreyCrow

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I am a libertarian who believes in direct democracy, and you're a statist who doesn't believe the existing position is hard enough, so what's the point?

If you want my view then start with every single piece of criminal legal legislation that was not directly itemised as a political election platform. This should take you about 5 years.

"Tough on crime" accounts for all sorts of absurd misreprsentative ********.
I hadnt realised I was a statist. Interesting

Tough on crime. You mean like wanting proper assessments on a prisoners recidivism chances? Wanting Bail laws to be harsher on those already given opportunities? Wanting sentencing to reflect a persons history ?

I believe there are a lot of social issues surrounding crime, literacy being one of the biggest . I think Governments should do all they can to raise the literacy rate. If these means continuing remedial education in prisons then do it. I know education is the one resource that gets cut back in any budget review and I dont agree with it.

I think parole is a gift not a right. If you think you can sit on your arse in prison and expect to waltz out then think again. If you are required to do a program , whether it be anger management , sexual offending or drug and alcohol then you do it and you do it to the satisfaction of the assessor. Or you can do your full sentence. And I have known people to choose this option

This is the reducing recidivism along with literacy and education classes

If you breach bail then you go to remand until your case comes before the court

If you have an escalating history of offending then sentencing should reflect this. If you are too stupid to learn the first time , or even the second then you have issues that need attending, do the program.

If as a Libertarian you think its ok for people to get out of prison and continue to assault people or rob from them then we are miles apart. People have a choice. The lazy choose to bash and rob someone rather than look inside themselves.
 

Snake_Baker

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If as a Libertarian you think its ok for people to get out of prison and continue to assault people or rob from them then we are miles apart. People have a choice. The lazy choose to bash and rob someone rather than look inside themselves.
This is exactly why a discussion with you is pointless.
 

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Is there something medically wrong with you?
Yes there is but it has no effect on my impartiality. For someone who pretends to have studied law you seem fairly, um, simple. Jail is all about restricting freedoms. You may (or may not) have studied law but you certainly don't understand it. Here, I googled it for you https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison

"A prison,[a] also known as a correctional facility, jail,https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison#cite_note-5 gaol (dated, British and Australian English), penitentiary (American English), detention center[c] (American English), remand center,[d] or internment facility (commonly used term in military theatres of war/involvement), is a facility in which inmates are forcibly confined and denied a variety of freedoms under the authority of the state. ..."

Of course, you'll now give us the argument that Wikipedia is wrong but really, all we're after is a general definition.
 
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Snake_Baker

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You use a lot of words to say nothing.
Your level of self awareness is microbial.

Please challenge yourself and post what you think is wrong with the ''system''

Why? So you can build yourself another billboard to plaster narrow minded generalizations all over?

You're not intelligent enough to have this discussion with me at any meaningful level. It's a waste of my time.

Declare yourself "the winner" and move on.
 

GreyCrow

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Your level of self awareness is microbial.




Why? So you can build yourself another billboard to plaster narrow minded generalizations all over?

You're not intelligent enough to have this discussion with me at any meaningful level. It's a waste of my time.

Declare yourself "the winner" and move on.
Lol again you use a lot of words to say nothing. You hold no positions. Oh and using the 'I'm smarter than you so dont waste my time'' is the comeback of stupid people. If you were as clever as you say you would utilise those smarts and post highly intelligent and critical responses

der der i'm cleverer derr derr
 

Snake_Baker

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Lol again you use a lot of words to say nothing. You hold no positions. Oh and using the 'I'm smarter than you so dont waste my time'' is the comeback of stupid people. If you were as clever as you say you would utilise those smarts and post highly intelligent and critical responses

der der i'm cleverer derr derr
You display your intellect with every additional post.

Congratulations on your noble victory.
 
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This is exactly why a discussion with you is pointless.
Your on a chat forum, it will always have different ideas.
Why not discuss them instead of suggesting its pointless.
Antime someone questions you this is the stance you take, not sure why your here.
Are you looking for affirmation of your ideas?
 

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shellyg

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shellyg

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Wayne Strawhorn to be the next witness called up this week, now this should be resulting in fireworks!

https://amp.theage.com.au/national/...lled-to-lawyer-x-inquiry-20190429-p51i84.html
I hope none of this goes behind closed doors.

From the article

Corrupt former drug squad detective Wayne Strawhorn will give evidence before the royal commission into gangland barrister turned police informer Nicola Gobbo when it resumes public hearings on Tuesday.

Strawhorn was jailed for seven years in December 2006 for corrupting a scheme he established in which police sold pseudoephedrine, the chemical used to make the drug speed, to criminals to flush out secret drug laboratories.
He was found guilty of selling two kilograms of the chemical to underworld figure Mark Moran.


The commission has been holding myriad closed-door sessions since it adjourned public hearings earlier this month.

"The focus of the second round of public hearings will be on Victoria Police's dealings with Nicola Gobbo between 1999 and 2003 with specific emphasis on Victoria Police's drug squad," a spokeswoman for the commission said on Monday.

Ms Gobbo became a police informer and was given the registered number 3838 when she shared information on some of the state's most notorious underworld figures. Many were her clients, calling into question a number of criminal convictions.

Strawhorn was involved with Ms Gobbo in her early days of informing in the late 1990s. (They need to go back further than that)

At the time, the firm Ms Gobbo was working for represented several people Strawhorn charged with drug trafficking in an investigation dubbed Operation Carron.

Ms Gobbo made allegations to detectives that a prominent lawyer was laundering money. (Alex L ewenberg? Condello not so prominent)

Strawhorn, along with another drug squad detective whose name has been suppressed by the commission, met with Ms Gobbo several times.

The detectives introduced her to former assistant commissioner Jeff Pope, then working at the asset and recovery squad, who went on to become her handler in 1999 in an investigation that focused on the laundering allegations. No charges were laid.
 
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I hope none of this goes behind closed doors.

From the article

Corrupt former drug squad detective Wayne Strawhorn will give evidence before the royal commission into gangland barrister turned police informer Nicola Gobbo when it resumes public hearings on Tuesday.

Strawhorn was jailed for seven years in December 2006 for corrupting a scheme he established in which police sold pseudoephedrine, the chemical used to make the drug speed, to criminals to flush out secret drug laboratories.
He was found guilty of selling two kilograms of the chemical to underworld figure Mark Moran.


The commission has been holding myriad closed-door sessions since it adjourned public hearings earlier this month.

"The focus of the second round of public hearings will be on Victoria Police's dealings with Nicola Gobbo between 1999 and 2003 with specific emphasis on Victoria Police's drug squad," a spokeswoman for the commission said on Monday.

Ms Gobbo became a police informer and was given the registered number 3838 when she shared information on some of the state's most notorious underworld figures. Many were her clients, calling into question a number of criminal convictions.

Strawhorn was involved with Ms Gobbo in her early days of informing in the late 1990s. (They need to go back further than that)

At the time, the firm Ms Gobbo was working for represented several people Strawhorn charged with drug trafficking in an investigation dubbed Operation Carron.

Ms Gobbo made allegations to detectives that a prominent lawyer was laundering money. (Alex L ewenberg? Condello not so prominent)

Strawhorn, along with another drug squad detective whose name has been suppressed by the commission, met with Ms Gobbo several times.

The detectives introduced her to former assistant commissioner Jeff Pope, then working at the asset and recovery squad, who went on to become her handler in 1999 in an investigation that focused on the laundering allegations. No charges were laid.
I believe we will be safe from a private hearing, it’s scheduled for the day and public, no-one else has been slated to appear tomorrow, it’s himself all day.
Some details may be spoken about in private of course but 99% will be open to us.

I’ll be heading down to grab a seat, never even heard the man speak, quite a mystery man.
 

shellyg

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I believe we will be safe from a private hearing, it’s scheduled for the day and public, no-one else has been slated to appear tomorrow, it’s himself all day.
Some details may be spoken about in private of course but 99% will be open to us.

I’ll be heading down to grab a seat, never even heard the man speak, quite a mystery man.
Good stuff. I was thinking of going in myself for Strawhorn's appearance and to see who else is wandering around but might have something on I can't get out of.

I've met Strawhorn but it's been a while.
 
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Good stuff. I was thinking of going in myself for Strawhorn's appearance and to see who else is wandering around but might have something on I can't get out of.

I've met Strawhorn but it's been a while.
I think it will be a fascinating appearance, I’ve read so much and seen so little,
I do have a associate who works at MAP who dealt with him and was quite complimentary, but he seems to have gotten away with so much!
 
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