Current Royal Commission into gangland convictions on tainted evidence & police corruption

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northcotehead

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From what I understand, hes filthy because he was taped having a conversation with Gobbo which implicates him in organizing the murder of the Hodgsons and hes claiming that the taped conversation is inadmissable because she was an informer and was breaching her client privelige .
How can he act all innocent and righteous when there's evidence (inadmissable or not) that implicates him.
This whole affair might exonerate him legally but he has no right to act all innocent and squeaky clean.
Am i missing something here?
 

Snake_Baker

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Thats bloody rich...
The most corrupt copper in the history of VICPOL getting all righteous
I doubt it.

The most serious charges against him were dropped, he wasn't acquitted. He could very easily trip up or get cornered through these proceedings and they will have no hesitation in going for him again. IMO.

Anything could happen. I'm reading him as nervous and he hasn't mentioned the ODPP yet.
He never went to trial, so no one really knows what's in the files regarding his prosecution and his RC testimony could very well set the ball rolling again, particularly in relation to what Gobbo told the OPI etc.
 

Crimewavex

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I won't quote snake because he gets sooky but Dale's not doing anything of the sort. It looks to me like he's mad as hell and more than happy to have his say in a public forum. That's not to suggest he's not a crim though.
Exactly!
It’s laughable to suggest he was s**tting himself.
Since day one he has said he wants to be called and during the questions he confirmed that if he wasn’t called he would stand out front of the commission and answer any and all questions, he has more than likely been the one witness called thus far to be so open and frank that at one point during proceedings Margaret McMurdo expressed surprise at how smoothly it was going.
 

Snake_Baker

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Exactly!
It’s laughable to suggest he was ****ting himself.
Since day one he has said he wants to be called and during the questions he confirmed that if he wasn’t called he would stand out front of the commission and answer any and all questions, he has more than likely been the one witness called thus far to be so open and frank that at one point during proceedings Margaret McMurdo expressed surprise at how smoothly it was going.
You clearly can't identify a political stunt when you see one.

This exhibition of righteousness came from a man who knew he was always going to be called before the commission.

It's 100% posturing.
 

Crimewavex

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From what I understand, hes filthy because he was taped having a conversation with Gobbo which implicates him in organizing the murder of the Hodgsons and hes claiming that the taped conversation is inadmissable because she was an informer and was breaching her client privelige .
How can he act all innocent and righteous when there's evidence (inadmissable or not) that implicates him.
This whole affair might exonerate him legally but he has no right to act all innocent and squeaky clean.
Am i missing something here?
He says the information linking him to Williams and the Hodson’s were a set up, he didn’t call Williams, it was Gobbo who was on the phone and then would pass it to Dale to make it seem like he was the one calling and organising, it was her who suggested getting a “dirty” phone because she told him her phones were off and they need to communicate privately as well as calling the Hodson’s from pay phones.
 

Snake_Baker

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He says the information linking him to Williams and the Hodson’s were a set up, he didn’t call Williams, it was Gobbo who was on the phone and then would pass it to Dale to make it seem like he was the one calling and organising, it was her who suggested getting a “dirty” phone because she told him her phones were off and they need to communicate privately as well as calling the Hodson’s from pay phones.

Why would Gobbo go out of her way to set up an innocent Paul Dale?

What is the motive for such a bizarre fabrication?
 

shellyg

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I haven't come across the information yet or I've forgotten it, does anybody else know who actually recruited the Hodsons as informants?
 

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Snake_Baker

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I haven't come across the information yet or I've forgotten it, does anybody else know who actually recruited the Hodsons as informants?

Who knows? ASs usual they were most likelyarrested for committing a crime and offered, or were induced, to provide information to police to stay out of prison.

Of course, inducements are not lawful, so any arrangements like that would never see the light of day.
 

sprockets

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Imo he's acting a bit, his little rant like he was about to cry "l believe in justice!" I swear sprockets l replayed it four or five times for a LOL.

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Whether he's acting or not, one thing is clear and it's that he's not ":poo:ting himself". When it comes to cops breaching the law a certain poster likes to over-dramatise it. When career crims do it there's hardly a peep.

PS. What's pooting???
 

Craven Morehead

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I don't have an opinion on anyone or anything.
However, watching this unfold is fascinating and deeply disturbing.
Little wonder that, as a 12 yr old, I hated Vic coppers after booking me for jay-walking, (no warning at all).
FFS, I was a kid from the bush in Qld!
 

shellyg

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Anybody tried to go through what's available on the official site? There's hardly anything there but when you do find something it looks like this.

RCO145 Statement from Gobbo. Page 1. Page 2 is possibly even more heavily redacted.

gob`.jpg
 

northcotehead

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Just thinking, I'm reading Adam Shand's Big Shots about the gangland wars. If Jason Moran listened to his brother Mark and put a bullet in Carl William's head instead of his belly all this s**t would probably not be happening. The butterfly effect it caused is astounding.
 

shellyg

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Should he not name these certain police who might want to have him killed?

Mr Dale also told the commission he was angry police had given underworld figures access to his home address by publishing it in a brief related to the 2003 drugs charges.

"At times I thought maybe it wasn't incompetence, it was an opportunity to try and have me killed by certain Victoria Police members. That got me very angry," Mr Dale said.

 

sprockets

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Should he not name these certain police who might want to have him killed?

Mr Dale also told the commission he was angry police had given underworld figures access to his home address by publishing it in a brief related to the 2003 drugs charges.

"At times I thought maybe it wasn't incompetence, it was an opportunity to try and have me killed by certain Victoria Police members. That got me very angry," Mr Dale said.

""Very first time I have ever seen it and I have never heard that before. I certainly don't recall asking or requesting Nicola to do any of that," Mr Dale said."

Don't recall? How about "No, I never requested that"???
 

petedavo

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""Very first time I have ever seen it and I have never heard that before. I certainly don't recall asking or requesting Nicola to do any of that," Mr Dale said."

Don't recall? How about "No, I never requested that"???
It's a "covers your arse" answer. You know, in the near certain expectation, that Nicola was wearing a wire, so the offer side will probably produce a tape recording, to contradict anything I says. Kind of answer.

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petedavo

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'Kafkaesque': Police try to block criminals' lawyers from inquiry probing wrongful convictions https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/kafkaesque-police-try-to-block-criminals-lawyers-from-inquiry-probing-wrongful-convictions-20190626-p521g3.html

Victoria Police has moved block criminals whose convictions are under question from the Lawyer X inquiry, as well as their lawyers, who said the attempt was “Kafkaesque”.

Gangland murderers once represented by barrister turned police informer Nicola Gobbo are pushing to be freed. But on Wednesday, police lawyers told the royal commission into the use of police informers that the criminals' lawyers should be locked out of the hearing.

Former Purana taskforce detectives who investigated the cases of underworld gunmen Evangelos "Ange" Goussis and Faruk Orman are set to give evidence, but Victoria Police wants to control the information the jailbirds' lawyers are allowed to hear.

Instead, police lawyer Renee Enbom said the killers should be given transcripts of the evidence after the force had reviewed and redacted the material.

Goussis' lawyer Adam Chernok said the attempt to shut the men out was offensive and likened the the move the oppressive world of novelist Franz Kafka.

Kafka's work is characterised by nightmarish settings in which characters are crushed by nonsensical, blind authority.

"Kafka himself couldn't have dreamt [this] up," Mr Chernok said.

The inquiry, frustrated by closed door hearings and mounting suppression orders, was called following a High Court judgement that labelled the conduct of the force and Ms Gobbo as reprehensible.

A number of convictions are under question, including Orman's, because of allegations Ms Gobbo breached the ethical obligations that protect conversations between lawyers and their clients and shared that information with police to assist in their prosecutions.

On Wednesday not even lawyers for the government accepted the force's argument, saying potentially affected people should not be shut out.

Victoria Police then argued that the lawyers should be given redacted versions of the detectives' statements. But the commission heard Victoria Police's redactions went too far, with Orman's name blacked out in one statement, along with footnotes referencing suppression orders.

The sentences are blocked out under public interest immunity, designed to prevent the release of information that could thwart a police investigation, reveal police methodologies to criminals or expose identities of informers and undercover operatives.

"I'm not satisfied they are legitimate [public interest immunity] claims," Commissioner Margaret McMurdo said.

Ms McMurdo ruled lawyers for the potentially affected men could sit in to hear the closed-door evidence of the detectives under orders they could not divulge information that did not concern their clients.

The media has also been permitted to sit in these private hearings, but cannot publish information without the commission's permission.

Orman's barrister Carly Marcs Lloyd said there were ongoing problems with her client's access to the commission, with Corrections Victoria preventing him from watching the online live stream of the public hearings.

On Tuesday Victoria Police was threatened with criminal charges for withholding more than 1000 vital documents from the commission.



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sprockets

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'Kafkaesque': Police try to block criminals' lawyers from inquiry probing wrongful convictions https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/kafkaesque-police-try-to-block-criminals-lawyers-from-inquiry-probing-wrongful-convictions-20190626-p521g3.html

Victoria Police has moved block criminals whose convictions are under question from the Lawyer X inquiry, as well as their lawyers, who said the attempt was “Kafkaesque”.

Gangland murderers once represented by barrister turned police informer Nicola Gobbo are pushing to be freed. But on Wednesday, police lawyers told the royal commission into the use of police informers that the criminals' lawyers should be locked out of the hearing.

Former Purana taskforce detectives who investigated the cases of underworld gunmen Evangelos "Ange" Goussis and Faruk Orman are set to give evidence, but Victoria Police wants to control the information the jailbirds' lawyers are allowed to hear.

Instead, police lawyer Renee Enbom said the killers should be given transcripts of the evidence after the force had reviewed and redacted the material.

Goussis' lawyer Adam Chernok said the attempt to shut the men out was offensive and likened the the move the oppressive world of novelist Franz Kafka.

Kafka's work is characterised by nightmarish settings in which characters are crushed by nonsensical, blind authority.

"Kafka himself couldn't have dreamt [this] up," Mr Chernok said.

The inquiry, frustrated by closed door hearings and mounting suppression orders, was called following a High Court judgement that labelled the conduct of the force and Ms Gobbo as reprehensible.

A number of convictions are under question, including Orman's, because of allegations Ms Gobbo breached the ethical obligations that protect conversations between lawyers and their clients and shared that information with police to assist in their prosecutions.

On Wednesday not even lawyers for the government accepted the force's argument, saying potentially affected people should not be shut out.

Victoria Police then argued that the lawyers should be given redacted versions of the detectives' statements. But the commission heard Victoria Police's redactions went too far, with Orman's name blacked out in one statement, along with footnotes referencing suppression orders.

The sentences are blocked out under public interest immunity, designed to prevent the release of information that could thwart a police investigation, reveal police methodologies to criminals or expose identities of informers and undercover operatives.

"I'm not satisfied they are legitimate [public interest immunity] claims," Commissioner Margaret McMurdo said.

Ms McMurdo ruled lawyers for the potentially affected men could sit in to hear the closed-door evidence of the detectives under orders they could not divulge information that did not concern their clients.

The media has also been permitted to sit in these private hearings, but cannot publish information without the commission's permission.

Orman's barrister Carly Marcs Lloyd said there were ongoing problems with her client's access to the commission, with Corrections Victoria preventing him from watching the online live stream of the public hearings.

On Tuesday Victoria Police was threatened with criminal charges for withholding more than 1000 vital documents from the commission.



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On the one hand, crims are among the dumbest people in society so it's only fair for them to have their lawyers present, but on the other, lawyers can't be trusted to not pass on sensitive info to their other crim clients? What's best for the rest of society? I guess the rights of good honest citizens to live their lives without fear comes before those of people who choose the criminal path.

Having said that, I doubt any of that comes into police thinking - they want as many of these affected people to remain behind bars as possible for them to not look as corrupt as they currently do.
 

petedavo

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On the one hand, crims are among the dumbest people in society so it's only fair for them to have their lawyers present, but on the other, lawyers can't be trusted to not pass on sensitive info to their other crim clients? What's best for the rest of society? I guess the rights of good honest citizens to live their lives without fear comes before those of people who choose the criminal path.

Having said that, I doubt any of that comes into police thinking - they want as many of these affected people to remain behind bars as possible for them to not look as corrupt as they currently do.
The Legal profession has strong code of ethics and the Law Society has processes to keep the profession beyond disrepute. It's a rigorous process to be admitted to the Bar, to keep out the disreputable, imposters, unqualified, and unethical.
Therefore, your concern should be unfounded, and we should have perfect trust in jurisprudence to always maintain the proper functioning of the rule of law.

What's this Royal Commission about again?

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