Current Royal Commission into gangland convictions on tainted evidence & police corruption

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skipper kelly

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Was it a scheduled break in the proceedings or are we surprised by it?
I think it is scheduled. There were no hearings listed after yesterday. Bateson is up again on 30 July and I seriously doubt we will get to hear much of it.

For me it's back to speculation and trying to join the dots.
 
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shellyg

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I think it is scheduled. There were no hearings listed after yesterday. Bateson is up again on 30 July and I seriously doubt we will get to hear much of it.

For me it's back to speculation and trying to join the dots.
Thanks, I haven't had time to try and catch up with it all. It's so frustrating it seems like hard work trying to make sense out of it all when we're blind to so much of the proceedings.
 

skipper kelly

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Thanks, I haven't had time to try and catch up with it all. It's so frustrating it seems like hard work trying to make sense out of it all when we're blind to so much of the proceedings.
It's full time to keep up with everything and then we are only hearing snippets. So far it appears the big picture is as known and is as stated and speculated. It appears everyone involved from the top down knew about Gobbo and others. As I might have argued in some thread previously, the DPP and like must have known. It is not possible for them not to know.

It is allegedly a time honoured practice for

a. some lawyers to represent multiple clients creating a conflict
b. coppers at that level to do whatever it takes
c. some prosecutors to turn a blind eye
d. all of said people to socialise and blab out of school

e. selective memory and recall

allegedly of course.
 

shellyg

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It crawled out of the abyss.

Nicola Gobbo — police informer Lawyer X — had a secret meeting with jailhouse enforcer Matthew Johnson in the months before he bashed Carl Williams to death.

The Barwon Prison liaison between criminal barrister Gobbo and Johnson, who bludgeoned Williams to death with the stem of an exercise bike, happened in mid-2009, according to her police handlers.

 

petedavo

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It crawled out of the abyss.

Nicola Gobbo — police informer Lawyer X — had a secret meeting with jailhouse enforcer Matthew Johnson in the months before he bashed Carl Williams to death.

The Barwon Prison liaison between criminal barrister Gobbo and Johnson, who bludgeoned Williams to death with the stem of an exercise bike, happened in mid-2009, according to her police handlers.

That's one conversation that would be interesting if it was recorded.

Sent from my HTC 2PQ910 using Tapatalk
 

shellyg

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It has begun.

Victoria's top appeal justice believes there are serious questions over the conviction of jailed gangland getaway driver Faruk Orman, substantiated by evidence from police.
Imprisoned for two decades in 2009 for his involvement in the slaying of career criminal Victor Pierce, Orman is appealing his sentence because super-snitch 'Lawyer X' Nicola Gobbo was part of his prosecution.
The 37-year-old wants to be freed on bail while awaiting his appeal, granted after a petition for mercy was accepted by Victoria's attorney-general last month.
Court of Appeal President Chris Maxwell on Wednesday said Orman's written case appeared to have "substantiation" through documents provided by police earlier this year.
If even a proportion of the assertions Orman makes are uncontested by police and prosecutors "it raises very serious questions", he said.
The prosecution case against Orman relied heavily on the evidence of another crook also represented by Ms Gobbo, Orman's sometimes-lawyer.

 

sprockets

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It has begun.

Victoria's top appeal justice believes there are serious questions over the conviction of jailed gangland getaway driver Faruk Orman, substantiated by evidence from police.
Imprisoned for two decades in 2009 for his involvement in the slaying of career criminal Victor Pierce, Orman is appealing his sentence because super-snitch 'Lawyer X' Nicola Gobbo was part of his prosecution.
The 37-year-old wants to be freed on bail while awaiting his appeal, granted after a petition for mercy was accepted by Victoria's attorney-general last month.
Court of Appeal President Chris Maxwell on Wednesday said Orman's written case appeared to have "substantiation" through documents provided by police earlier this year.
If even a proportion of the assertions Orman makes are uncontested by police and prosecutors "it raises very serious questions", he said.
The prosecution case against Orman relied heavily on the evidence of another crook also represented by Ms Gobbo, Orman's sometimes-lawyer.

Orman's been in, for this crime, 12 years and was given a minimum of 14.

They say

"... The prosecution case against Orman relied heavily on the evidence of another crook also represented by Ms Gobbo, Orman's sometimes-lawyer. ..."

But then

"... Former underworld investigator Mark Hatt told the royal commission it's likely Orman would never have been convicted without Ms Gobbo's evidence. ..."

So was it Gobbo giving evidence or this other crook?

And then we have

"... He said there was significant corroborating evidence, including phone calls, used against Orman, but the calls alone were "probably not" enough to secure a conviction. ..." So there was Gobbo's evidence (or the other crook) and there were phone calls and that was it? No, the calls were just some of the other significant evidence. Shoddy, deliberately alarmist reporting.

We also see the lawyers 'go-to' statement of "... If even a proportion of the assertions Orman makes are uncontested by police and prosecutors "it raises very serious questions", he said. ..." In other words, he's not saying that Orman is being truthful, and he'd probably be right.
 

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GreyCrow

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Orman's been in, for this crime, 12 years and was given a minimum of 14.

They say

"... The prosecution case against Orman relied heavily on the evidence of another crook also represented by Ms Gobbo, Orman's sometimes-lawyer. ..."

But then

"... Former underworld investigator Mark Hatt told the royal commission it's likely Orman would never have been convicted without Ms Gobbo's evidence. ..."

So was it Gobbo giving evidence or this other crook?

And then we have

"... He said there was significant corroborating evidence, including phone calls, used against Orman, but the calls alone were "probably not" enough to secure a conviction. ..." So there was Gobbo's evidence (or the other crook) and there were phone calls and that was it? No, the calls were just some of the other significant evidence. Shoddy, deliberately alarmist reporting.

We also see the lawyers 'go-to' statement of "... If even a proportion of the assertions Orman makes are uncontested by police and prosecutors "it raises very serious questions", he said. ..." In other words, he's not saying that Orman is being truthful, and he'd probably be right.
Its also alarmist and agenda driven when the use of ''two decades'' signifies 12 years. Technically correct but deliberately used to gather sympathy.

Thinking about it some more it reads like a handed over insert from the lawyer and no fact checking from the ''journo''
 

Melsy

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It's full time to keep up with everything and then we are only hearing snippets. So far it appears the big picture is as known and is as stated and speculated. It appears everyone involved from the top down knew about Gobbo and others. As I might have argued in some thread previously, the DPP and like must have known. It is not possible for them not to know.

It is allegedly a time honoured practice for

a. some lawyers to represent multiple clients creating a conflict
b. coppers at that level to do whatever it takes
c. some prosecutors to turn a blind eye
d. all of said people to socialise and blab out of school

e. selective memory and recall

allegedly of course.
LawyerX was a 'registered' informant with an obligation to the court.

The criminals can jump up and down all they want. They put 'community' who must be protected in the firing line of danger.
 

Melsy

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The judges are testing that the rule of law has not gone wayward. The law slid into the gravel and no one could see. Now the dust has settled, the judges must make sure that all was carried out with the obligation to the court.

There was some rootin, tootin and shootin goin on. If Cleaver Greene is anywhere near this.....
 

shellyg

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And then he died.

A statement by crime boss Carl Williams has been released, in which he claims a former Victorian detective offered to kill rival Jason Moran for $400,000.
The statement by Williams, who was murdered in prison in 2010, was publicly released on Friday as part of the royal commission into the management of police informants.
The claims, which have previously been aired publicly, include that Williams met former detective Paul Dale a dozen times and that he would regularly pay the officer thousands in cash for tip-offs.
"He was telling me that he could keep an eye out for me. In return Dale expected to be paid for any information that he gave to me," Williams says.
"He would keep me updated as to what was going on with drug squad investigations that involved me or where my name was mentioned."
Another time, he says Dale asked if he wanted them to "do anything" about his rival Jason Moran.
"Dale said they could kill Jason for $400,000. I told them they were dreaming," Williams said, adding former detective, David Miechel, was part of the conversation.

On another occasion, Williams says he paid Dale $10,000 to remove photos and videos from the brief of evidence against his associate, Ian Lesser. He says Lesser later told him they were not part of the case against him.
Dale recently testified at the commission into police use of informant Nicola Gobbo, known as Lawyer X.

 

shellyg

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A poem by Matthew Johnson. What did Gobbo tell the paranoid Johnson on her visit? I can think of something that might prompt an attack and gels with his argument of self defence.

“THIS PLACE”
Camera’s and bars in every cell,
In this hell, where few dwell,
At any second the walls could close,
Bashed and prodded in a cell with no clothes,
My own voice and echoes my only friends,
My own friendship never bends,
Is this pain I feel as my lungs heave,
Because of the toxins I’m forced to breath,
I was left, some thought, with nothing to believe,
Only pain, at the hand of filth, to receive,
I’ve been gassed and all the rest in this place,
But every time I laugh and spit blood in there face,
Some say I crazy, but it’s my will to survive,
I’ll hold my head high until the day I die,
I outlived Carl and you all know why,
Anger manifests into an uncontrollable rage,
I’m a starved demon being poked in a cage,
Now this evil, it won’t leave my face,
It isn’t me, but this soul killing jungle of a place.

 

shellyg

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"The conflicts were well known by the director, the OPP [Office of Public Prosecutions], the courts and I think the ethics committee," he said.

Sounds like Conspiracy to me.


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If Orman is successful with his appeal and it's demonstrated a wrong outcome was achieved, a case for perverting the course of justice might be constructed off that. For a start.
 

shellyg

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Not the right timing to bring this up but I might forget. Mokbel was right, he wasn't going to get a fair trial.

Mokbel fought his extradition for months. His lawyers argued that after the gloating by the Victorian Government and police he couldn't get a fair trial in the state. He even took his case to the European Court of Human Rights.

But his arguments failed and Mokbel was brought back to Melbourne in a chartered jet in May 2008. His flight plan was shrouded in secrecy because of fears there could be a contract out on his life. The arrival of his plane prompted a media frenzy and he was flown by helicopter straight to Barwon Prison to start serving his minimum nine-year sentence. The other gangland kingpin, Carl Williams was already there, serving 35 years for three murders.

While he was on the run, Mokbel was charged with the murders of gangland heavyweight, Lewis Moran in 2004 and hot-dog vendor and small time drug dealer, Michael Marshall in 2003.

 

Badge666

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Not the right timing to bring this up but I might forget. Mokbel was right, he wasn't going to get a fair trial.

Mokbel fought his extradition for months. His lawyers argued that after the gloating by the Victorian Government and police he couldn't get a fair trial in the state. He even took his case to the European Court of Human Rights.

But his arguments failed and Mokbel was brought back to Melbourne in a chartered jet in May 2008. His flight plan was shrouded in secrecy because of fears there could be a contract out on his life. The arrival of his plane prompted a media frenzy and he was flown by helicopter straight to Barwon Prison to start serving his minimum nine-year sentence. The other gangland kingpin, Carl Williams was already there, serving 35 years for three murders.

While he was on the run, Mokbel was charged with the murders of gangland heavyweight, Lewis Moran in 2004 and hot-dog vendor and small time drug dealer, Michael Marshall in 2003.

Could never understand the " guilty "pleas by Mokbel and more particularly Williams....any heavy crook worth their salt lives and dies by the axiom "never plead guilty."
The coppers have the burden of proof....lots can go wrong...Williams seemed genuinely shocked at his sentence....was he expecting to get off lightly after admitting to making Melbourne streets run red with blood for years.....not likely....
 

shellyg

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Could never understand the " guilty "pleas by Mokbel and more particularly Williams....any heavy crook worth their salt lives and dies by the axiom "never plead guilty."
The coppers have the burden of proof....lots can go wrong...Williams seemed genuinely shocked at his sentence....was he expecting to get off lightly after admitting to making Melbourne streets run red with blood for years.....not likely....
Possibly because their lawyer told them as part of the deal they'd only do ten years or something. Mokbel may not do much more than that eventually anyway, if he isn't killed beforehand.

If the European Court of Human Rights had known his lawyer was a police informant working against him?
 

sprockets

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Could never understand the " guilty "pleas by Mokbel and more particularly Williams....any heavy crook worth their salt lives and dies by the axiom "never plead guilty."
The coppers have the burden of proof....lots can go wrong...Williams seemed genuinely shocked at his sentence....was he expecting to get off lightly after admitting to making Melbourne streets run red with blood for years.....not likely....
There's lots of 'crook' axioms but when it comes to the crunch they all look after number one. It's why they become crooks in the first place.
 
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