Current Royal Commission into Lawyer X gangland convictions on tainted evidence & police corruption

[Kurve]

Why was he in in the first place? Would you accept that if the law was changed and unethically gained evidence was allowed in court, that he should have been found guilty?

From this article, police are stating they acted in good faith (maybe not) and are very disappointed with the quashing of Orman's conviction and prosecutors say there is enough other evidence to get a conviction. What is it? Not enough because they've let him out free to sue the state for more money than it would cost to send him to trial again imo.

Sounds like they're saving face and in damage control to me, what else are they going to say? 'Oh .. well we knew we were probably doing the wrong thing but went ahead anyway ... the streets were awash with blood!'

Behind the gangland hit Faruk Orman was convicted of, then acquitted

Victor George Peirce was shot through the window of his 1993 maroon Commodore on Port Melbourne's Bay Street in 2002.

www.theage.com.au

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

He might have a low iq but he is smart.. didn’t roll over even though the police and prison treated him like s**t and tried to get him to roll on mick. Not sure if it’s came out but he put up with some terrible treatment while in jail.. might add a bit more to his payout.

What sort of treatment?

 

[Kurve]

I remember Mick Gatto having a fundraising dinner for Faruk and from memory raised over $100k.

Just keep your mouth shut Faruk.

Just reading that Mick Gatto had Orman's portrait tattoo'd on himself ... that's a bit ott.

 

[Kurve]

Regardless of whether he was guilty in the eyes of the law the evidence says he did it. Just because the guy he told about it blabbed doesn't mean he didn't tell the guy. I don't believe he was set up - someone drove the car.

John Silvester "Usually when a conviction is quashed there is the possibility of a retrial. It will not happen in this case as Orman is out of here. The evidence is now so fishy no amount of seafood extender could make it palatable."

The one thing Nicola Gobbo did that saw Faruk Orman walk from jail

The key to quashing Orman’s conviction was the fact that when Witness Q was wavering, it was Nicola Gobbo who urged police to make sure he was prepared to give evidence against her own client.

www.theage.com.au

 

[sprockets]

John Silvester "Usually when a conviction is quashed there is the possibility of a retrial. It will not happen in this case as Orman is out of here. The evidence is now so fishy no amount of seafood extender could make it palatable."

The one thing Nicola Gobbo did that saw Faruk Orman walk from jail

The key to quashing Orman’s conviction was the fact that when Witness Q was wavering, it was Nicola Gobbo who urged police to make sure he was prepared to give evidence against her own client.

www.theage.com.au

It's faruked!

You can read the decision here

Basically, they're saying that (i) the evidence given by the particular witness (prison mate) isn't necessarily inadmissible in a new trial but that'd be up to a judge to determine and (ii) there won't be a retrial because it's been too long since the crime happened and Orman has served a significant portion of the sentence from the first trial.

From reading the judgement it's not a given that there'll automatically be a payout to Orman.

 

[AdamMarrett]

It's faruked!

You can read the decision here

Basically, they're saying that (i) the evidence given by the particular witness (prison mate) isn't necessarily inadmissible in a new trial but that'd be up to a judge to determine and (ii) there won't be a retrial because it's been too long since the crime happened and Orman has served a significant portion of the sentence from the first trial.

From reading the judgement it's not a given that there'll automatically be a payout to Orman.

Would have to be a given wouldn't it? I've read the judgement but he had 12 years of his life taken on a conviction that was tainted, and the Victorian Police knew it was tainted at the time.

 

[FrankGrimes]

What sort of treatment?

Solitary confinement etc.. I heard it was to try and break him etc.. of course based purely on media reports..
did you have dealings with him at work?

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Solitary confinement etc.. I heard it was to try and break him etc.. of course based purely on media reports..
did you have dealings with him at work?

Yes. Certainly not true for the 4 years I had dealings with him.

Melaleuca and Acacia certainly aren't mainstream and have stricter regimes but definitely not solitary. Basically all the gangland crooks at the time were housed in these units, mostly for their own protection.

 

[Crimewavex]

For those interested Four Corners did a segment years ago about Dale & the Hodson’s which is a nice watch.

 

[Snake_Baker]

It's faruked!

You can read the decision here

Basically, they're saying that (i) the evidence given by the particular witness (prison mate) isn't necessarily inadmissible in a new trial but that'd be up to a judge to determine and (ii) there won't be a retrial because it's been too long since the crime happened and Orman has served a significant portion of the sentence from the first trial.

From reading the judgement it's not a given that there'll automatically be a payout to Orman.

It begins.

I'd guess Karam would be next, followed by Cvetnovski (most likely on parole), then they will stage manage the "Underbellyed" types.

 

[Snake_Baker]

John Silvester "Usually when a conviction is quashed there is the possibility of a retrial. It will not happen in this case as Orman is out of here. The evidence is now so fishy no amount of seafood extender could make it palatable."

The one thing Nicola Gobbo did that saw Faruk Orman walk from jail

The key to quashing Orman’s conviction was the fact that when Witness Q was wavering, it was Nicola Gobbo who urged police to make sure he was prepared to give evidence against her own client.

www.theage.com.au

Silvester really is a piece of excrement.

 

[chargers 09]

What’s Orman’s background? I.e. which crew did he hang out with? Priors etc.


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[Crimewavex]

What’s Orman’s background? I.e. which crew did he hang out with? Priors etc.


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A childhood friend on Andrew Veniamin but in the later years was more in the company of Gatto.
If you see the news footage of Carl Williams & Mick Gatto meeting at crown casino you can Faruk on the scene with Gatto and Steve Kaya.

He was also at La Porchetta when Gatto killed Veniamin in self defence.
Contacts in both camps but more so “Carlton Crew”

 

[sprockets]

Faruk Orman to sue Victoria over jail time

Faruk Orman will sue the state of Victoria and seek compensation after the former "Lawyer X" client had his murder conviction quashed and walked free from prison after 12 years.

www.news.com.au

As stated above, he won't automatically receive a payout, he'll have to work for it and the govt will (should) fight just as hard not to give him one.

 

[chargers 09]

A childhood friend on Andrew Veniamin but in the later years was more in the company of Gatto.
If you see the news footage of Carl Williams & Mick Gatto meeting at crown casino you can Faruk on the scene with Gatto and Steve Kaya.

He was also at La Porchetta when Gatto killed Veniamin in self defence.
Contacts in both camps but more so “Carlton Crew”

OK- so he’s no angel obviously.


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[sprockets]

OK- so he’s no angel obviously.


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And when you lay down with dogs what happens?

 

[Kurve]

And when you lay down with dogs what happens?

You get a Royal Commission.

 

[chargers 09]

And when you lay down with dogs what happens?

Did he have any prior convictions etc?

Wouldn’t have thought a clean skin would agree to be the driver for the assassin murdering a heavy in Victor Pierce.


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[sprockets]

Did he have any prior convictions etc?

Wouldn’t have thought a clean skin would agree to be the driver for the assassin murdering a heavy in Victor Pierce.


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Me either.

 

[Crimewavex]

Did he have any prior convictions etc?

Wouldn’t have thought a clean skin would agree to be the driver for the assassin murdering a heavy in Victor Pierce.


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He has prior convictions for assault, assault with a weapon and a conviction for possession of heroin.

 

[skipper kelly]

Not a problem,
Traglia also have information about Paul Kallipolitis’ murder which also resulted in Orman being charged as the getaway driver for Veniamin but that was dropped right after Orman was sent to jail actually.

I believe the Pierce trial/result was under suppression until the Kallipolitis matter was dealt with.

You are right, it can only be Traglia. Here is the sentencing report of Orman http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/cases/vic/VSC/2009/538.html and here is the Court of Appeal report http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/v...6.html?context=1;query=orman;mask_path=#fnB67

 

[Snake_Baker]

He has prior convictions for assault, assault with a weapon and a conviction for possession of heroin.

Which pales in to comparison with the systematic corruption being exposed by the Royal Commission.

 

[skipper kelly]

Not sure if this has been linked before but well worth a read again. Pretty much nails it from the start.

Deeper, wider, longer: lawyer X inquiry reveals corruption of justice system | Richard Ackland

As the identity of Informer 3838 remains under wraps, the royal commission into police informants exposes a scandal that worsens by the day

www.theguardian.com

More appropriately, it might be called royal commission into the corruption of the criminal justice system. The terms of reference already have to be tweaked because Victoria police has discovered that Informer 3838, aka Lawyer X, aka EF was informing from 1995, 10 years earlier than first suspected.


Royal commissioner Malcolm Hyde fell on his sword because of a perceived conflict of interest, having been a senior Victorian police officer during this earlier period. The commission soldiers on with the former president of the Queensland court of appeal, Margaret McMurdo, at the helm.


It is now apparent that this perversion of justice runs deeper, wider and longer than was first imagined. Other lawyers are said to be involved in dishing-up their clients to the police, and not just in Victoria. How far it has spread is for now a matter of conjecture. Are any judges in on the racket? Perish the thought.


This will continue to unravel painfully, damaging the so-called independence of the legal profession, and betraying a criminal justice system supposedly designed to give every advantage to the citizen against the state. The Victorian Bar has been quick to quarantine the fallout, saying there is nothing to suggest other barristers are involved and that what has been uncovered so far is “wholly aberrant”.


At its heart this is a story about secrets, and the struggle in the courts over the past four years to keep the lid on them.

 

[Snake_Baker]

This is tip of the iceberg stuff.

You have to ask yourself how many more corruption matters remained uncovered due to them not having the spotlight of the High Court placed upon them?

The system is fundamentally flawed, and the Victoria Police have FAR TOO MUCH independent power.

 

[skipper kelly]

This is tip of the iceberg stuff.

You have to ask yourself how many more corruption matters remained uncovered due to them not having the spotlight of the High Court placed upon them?

The system is fundamentally flawed, and the Victoria Police have FAR TOO MUCH independent power.

Agree mostly. I always believed that the oversight of the VP in major cases was covered by the DPP and above. It seems all parties are running scared but only some might be held accountable. No-one can tell me that these others (who are not bound to give evidence to the RC) did not know what was going on. Only have to look at the quick release of Orman and the judgement to get an idea of what is not being told. It will be interesting to see how quickly he gets a settlement. Very quickly is my guess.

Comrie, Kellam and Champion would know all but we, the public, will likely never know the full extent.

Too big a rabbit hole to explore for the amateur sleuth, and almost impossible for a RC to expose everything.