Injury Royal inquest needed?

[76woodenspooners]

Just wondering, how many ACL's a club needs to blow in one season for them to stop blaming "bad luck" and start investigating if there's something systemic?

Do you reckon it's > 4, or <= 4 ?

 

[mattys123]

Honestly, I reckon it's not a number, it's more how they occurred.

If all 4 injuries had of occurred in the same type of incident than there would be a massive need for concern, but it seems that all 4 (from reports, not too many saw the Krakouer one) have been different type of clashes/turns that have led to the injury.

It's just plain bad luck, there's no doubting that.

 

[Swooop]

Honestly, I reckon it's not a number, it's more how they occurred.

If all 4 injuries had of occurred in the same type of incident than there would be a massive need for concern, but it seems that all 4 (from reports, not too many saw the Krakouer one) have been different type of clashes/turns that have led to the injury.

It's just plain bad luck, there's no doubting that.

Krakouer appeared to be knocked off balance ( it happened out in the centre at Geelong's ground) just like Keeffe was bumped off balance by Tippett last night.

Krakouer's was just the first play after either the QT or HT break ( so he wasn't fatigued ) though it was first game back after his break, so perhaps his muscles around the knee may not have been properly balanced or toned.
( again, unlikely)

MacAffer also was off balance I think after getting a bad handball thaat had him awkwardly positioned. Didn't see Luke Ball's mechanism of injury and don't even know if it was first or second time he went down.

The ACL is ( kind of) supported/helped/assisted by strong hamstrings and the PCL is 'supported' by the quads.

If you are looking for a systemic problem, if there is a lot more work done on the quads and less on the hamstrings, then the ACL may be being relatively compromised to a degree.

But very much doubt this would be happening TBH.

Just rotten luck IMHO, but would value TRS' opinion.

 

[Hva sher a]

Krakouer appeared to be knocked off balance ( it happened out in the centre at Geelong's ground) just like Keeffe was bumped off balance by Tippett last night.

Krakouer's was just the first play after either the QT or HT break ( so he wasn't fatigued ) though it was first game back after his break, so perhaps his muscles around the knee may not have been properly balanced or toned.
( again, unlikely)

MacAffer also was off balance I think after getting a bad handball thaat had him awkwardly positioned. Didn't see Luke Ball's mechanism of injury and don't even know if it was first or second time he went down.

The ACL is ( kind of) supported/helped/assisted by strong hamstrings and the PCL is 'supported' by the quads.

If you are looking for a systemic problem, if there is a lot more work done on the quads and less on the hamstrings, then the ACL may be being relatively compromised to a degree.

But very much doubt this would be happening TBH.

Just rotten luck IMHO, but would value TRS' opinion.

Agreed - it is bad luck. Its not like Essendon's spate of hammys which has been attributed to their training load. That's a bit of easily corrected.
Knees are just one of those things. Most clubs seem to cop one, two or 3 a year. We've just got seriously unlucky. And its compounded by the fact that we are in serious flag contention as its not easy to bring in a rookie and expect them to contribute at a high level.

 

[eddiebankbalance]

I reckon all the other clubs will be calling for a Royal Inquest as to why COLLINGWOOD have won 6 in a row

 

[danielnajdek]

We've had 6 in the pass 2 years including Brad Dick and Nate Brown

 

[Baltimore Jack]

I think the Queen will be far too busy

 

[76woodenspooners]

I think we've only had three ACL's over the last five years or so? - Chris Dawes, Nate Brown, and Brad Dick. (any others?)

The 4 ACL's we've had this season have come at a time when there has been a significant change in the club.

Maybe there is causality there, and maybe there's not. But surely the club is obliged to investigate for both the health and wellbeing of the players and for our desire for success.

Swooop suggested one possible failure mode (however unlikely). Maybe there are others? Maybe there's a new yoga instructor that is putting players in positions that strain their knee? Maybe Buckley has got the team doing secret break dancing classes that are overloading players' knees? Maybe a black cat crawled up into the rafters of the Westpac centre and died? Maybe there's a secret CIA plot to get Shae onto the senior list?

I think it is now time to investigate. Put Jack Kennedy in charge of getting in some top shelf independent sports medicos to have a probe around. Maybe they'll conclude that it is simply bad luck and unhappy coincidence?

Investigating can't hurt.

And surely there wouldn't be too many more worthy causes for us to spend our money on at the moment? And besides, we could probably get some assistance from the AFL and our medical insurance company for such a cause.

 

[Heater39]

I was thinking of starting this thread but thought i'd get blasted for it.

I really hope (and I'm sure they am) that the club are looking into it.

You'd need to have a medical /sports science background to know what causes acl ruptures and what particular training methods can strengthen or weaken the acl.

Even if you know the general mechanisms of the acl, you wouldn't know the particular training that our boys are doing that might have impacted on the injuries.

Not sure how you can say for certain that it's bad luck matty. That seems pure blind faith in the club.

 

[Swooop]

I'm sure the Club would have asked the question as to why, and is there anything that may be dierectly or indirecty contributing to this.

It's mainly in Buttifant's court and he's been there a while and would be aware of any differences in the demands, both generally on the lower limbs and ACL-specific issues ( like the quad/hamstring balance) this year as compared to previous.

But agree with 76 ws it's time to ask the question IF it hasn't been already.

I like the CIA conspiracy theory, as Shae is geting pretty close now LOL.

 

[76woodenspooners]

It's mainly in Buttifant's court and he's been there a while and would be aware of any differences in the demands, both generally on the lower limbs and ACL-specific issues ( like the quad/hamstring balance) this year as compared to previous.

Yeah, but I'd imagine that Professor Buttifant would be familiar with the value and rigour that comes from peer review.

If Butters can only attribute the ACL thing to bad luck, then I'd hope that he'd be the one taking the initiative to get some independents in to review.

On the other hand, if he can fully understand why they have happened and has started taking measures to prevent more happening to the satisfaction of Walsh, Buckley, the Medical Team, etc, then an independent review may seem redundant.

I like the CIA conspiracy theory, as Shae is geting pretty close now LOL.

Yeah, I say we promote Shae now. If the ACL's then stop, then we'll know who was behind them.

 

[rand corp]

Come on, its patently obvious isn't it .......











Its either Adwian Assclown's constant tinkering with the rules and interchange arrangements or, its that Mick's got a bunch of Collingwood player voodoo dolls and he is sticking pins in their knees to curtail Buxs rising star as a coach.

 

[ipswichpies]

Come on, its patently obvious isn't it .......











Its either Adwian Assclown's constant tinkering with the rules and interchange arrangements or, its that Mick's got a bunch of Collingwood player voodoo dolls and he is sticking pins in their knees to curtail Buxs rising star as a coach.

Seriously though if as someone noted they have all happened in a different way surely it must be bad luck,I would think the club would be all over this if there is a way to have stopped even 1 knee happening they would be doing it.

If most of them had occurred late in matches I might be blaming tired players and lack of rotations but I think it is just bad luck.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

4 hammies = something wrong with fitness sports science

4 knees = bad luck. Really f**king rotten bad luck

 

[MarkT2]

I think the number warrants some investigation but I doubt it would be possible to solve why there have been so many. If it was then there would be a lot less of them in every sport. I doubt there is more to it than bad luck but that shouldn't stop some prudent self examination.

 

[jonbe54]

Bad luck is an understatement but true, hideous run of season ending injuries. The real heroes here are the coaching staff and match commitee for selecting replacements and grooming them to take the step up.

 

[Markfs]

I thought it might be the surface of the ground. To me, Football Park looked a little soft, like when the grass is too spongy. It looked to me that Keeffe's ankle didnt get support from the turf...

But the MCG is fine, where the Pie's other injuries would have taken place.

 

[The Magnificent Seven]

I think the Queen will be far too busy

Maybe Phil the Greek will sail on over and have a poke and prod around?

 

[ipswichpies]

I thought it might be the surface of the ground. To me, Football Park looked a little soft, like when the grass is too spongy. It looked to me that Keeffe's ankle didnt get support from the turf...

But the MCG is fine, where the Pie's other injuries would have taken place.

The ACL,s we have suffered have all been at different grounds different times of matches where the player has been injured,no common denominator just rotten luck.

Agree Jonbe the coaching and fitness and development have been outstanding 4 first year players debuting just amazing to be sitting where we are'with some of these other kids coming through things are looking real good from where I stand,I would love to see Ceglar,Witts and Mooney given a run as well.

 

[dubber]

MacAffer also was off balance I think after getting a bad handball thaat had him awkwardly positioned. Didn't see Luke Ball's mechanism of injury and don't even know if it was first or second time he went down.

I think MacAffer's was someone sliding into him that did the knee ??

 

[76woodenspooners]

The ACL,s we have suffered have all been at different grounds different times of matches where the player has been injured,no common denominator just rotten luck.

There is one notable common denominator: all 4 players were trained by the Collingwood Football club.

I'm not suggesting that the fitness staff are to blame. I am suggesting that it should be investigated.

It's off-season in the EPL, perhaps Eddie can ask our mates at Emirites if the head of sports medicine at Arsenal is interested in an all expenses paid working holiday to Australia for him and his family?

And besides, there's sure to be some sports medicine academic out there who would relish the rare opportunity to study high incidence ACL cell.