Ruckman

[SC_Power]

Even then only 2 flags for Gawn and Cox, so it just shows having an elite ruck doesn't give you a dynasty

It’s a single position on the ground, so the numbers are going to be less for Ruckmen than any other position on the ground.

As a comparison, wonder what the numbers are for elite pure CHF’s over the last 10 years.

 

[iameviljez]

Leigh Brown was a bit of a meme player at the time but you put him in a side in 2025 and he'd probably be a late 1st rounder.

If you had a version of him capable of covering enough ground for the modern game, absolutely.

 

[tiger_tough]

While it's great to have a Max Gawn

11

Max Gawn

Age

34

Ht

209cm

Wt

110kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.1

4star

K

7.4

3star

HB

6.7

4star

CL

2.8

4star

HO

35.3

5star

D

18.5

4star

K

11.5

4star

HB

7.0

4star

CL

3.5

4star

HO

29.2

5star

D

8.4

3star

K

3.6

2star

HB

4.8

4star

CL

1.0

3star

HO

15.6

5star

(if you can draft one), history shows that a competitive big man is all that is required to win flags.

There is a ruck merry go round every year, you can always trade for a decent ruck when the window opens. I wouldn't be trading early picks or drafting a ruckman with an early pick. We got Nankervis for pick 46 from the Swans.

 

[amazingjoshy]

With the recent mega-deal for Tom De Koning and reports that Sam Draper was asking big money before ultimately nominating Brisbane, I can’t help but wonder is it really worth tying up so much of a club’s cap in ruckmen?


Looking back at the past decade of premiership teams, the trend seems pretty clear: only once in the last 10 years has a flag been won with a genuinely top-tier, highly paid ruck duo Max Gawn and Luke Jackson in 2021. More often than not, clubs have gone with serviceable, battle-hardened rucks who compete honestly in the hit-outs and let their midfield and forward line take control.


Meanwhile, Brodie Grundy has appeared in two losing grand final sides, and Nic Naitanui also featured in two runner-up teams both elite talents, but not enough to push their clubs over the line.


So the question is: are clubs overvaluing top-end ruck talent when history shows premiership success has more often come from solid, cost-effective big men rather than the big-money stars?

Year	Premier — No.1 / No.2 ruck	Runner-up — No.1 / No.2 ruck
2024	Brisbane — Darcy Fort / Joe Daniher	Sydney — Brodie Grundy / Hayden McLean
2023	Collingwood — Darcy Cameron / Mason Cox	Brisbane — Oscar McInerney / Joe Daniher
2022	Geelong — Rhys Stanley / Mark Blicavs	Sydney — Tom Hickey / Hayden McLean
2021	Melbourne — Max Gawn / Luke Jackson	Western Bulldogs — Stefan Martin / Tim English
2020	Richmond — Toby Nankervis / David Astbury	Geelong — Rhys Stanley / Mark Blicavs
2019	Richmond — Ivan Soldo / Toby Nankervis	GWS — Shane Mumford / Jeremy Finlayson
2018	West Coast — Scott Lycett / Nathan Vardy	Collingwood — Brodie Grundy / Mason Cox
2017	Richmond — Toby Nankervis / Shaun Grigg	Adelaide — Sam Jacobs / Josh Jenkins
2016	Western Bulldogs — Jordan Roughead / Tom Boyd	Sydney — Sam Naismith / Callum Sinclair
2015	Hawthorn — Ben McEvoy / David Hale	West Coast — Nic Naitanui / Callum Sinclair

Preaching to the choir with me

Can add to this 3 of the 4 finals games last week the winners have lost the hitouts (and quite substantially in a couple of those) and most the best ruckmen seem to play for bottom half teams

Nice to have a decent one but by no means as important a position as what's always made out

 

[MisterMarcus]

2016 - Wayne Campbell is umpires boss and calls for the removal of the 3rd man up rule for the 2017 season (perfected by Mark Blicavs) before conveniently leaving the job with plausible deniability.

2017 - The "Campbell/Blicavs" rule introduced. Richmond win premiership with Geelong effectively muzzled.

You know it's true.

"We'd have won 10 flags in a row if it wasn't for Shocking Campbell and the CFL being in lifelong conspiracy against us!!!""

Amidoingitrite?

 

[Corn Cobbers]

Peak Corey McKernan

Corey Mckernan

Age

52

Ht

197cm

Wt

105kg

Pos.

F/R

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.7

3star

K

9.0

3star

HB

3.7

3star

M

5.1

5star

T

0.7

3star

G

1.3

5star

No current season stats available

D

9.2

3star

K

5.6

3star

HB

3.6

3star

M

4.2

4star

T

1.0

3star

G

1.2

4star

would be worth this sort of coin, can de Koning reach that level?

 

[Ralll]

"We'd have won 10 flags in a row if it wasn't for Shocking Campbell and the CFL being in lifelong conspiracy against us!!!""

Amidoingitrite?

Did you learn that from the main board, or did you drop by our board and watch them in their natural habitat?

 

[My Tilly]

There will also be the last touch rule... meaning far fewer boundary throw ins...

Which also favors the mobile big men as they will be required to run a bit more. I mean De Koning and Jackson averaged 18 disposals a game. They are essentially hybrid midfielders.

I've missed this...what ruck rules are they looking to change?

Throw ins being reduced along with stricter interpretation inhibiting guys like Grundy and Gawn to stand without jumping and hack the ball forward from ruck contests.

 

[Bianconeri]

Leigh Brown was a bit of a meme player at the time but you put him in a side in 2025 and he'd probably be a late 1st rounder.

He was a good role player for two years, but even then he wasn’t kicking alot of goals or wining alot of hit outs.

In 2025 he’d score less goals with how the game is now and win less hit outs given the height of most ruckman has increased.

 

[nineteen eighty]

...


Throw ins being reduced along with stricter interpretation inhibiting guys like Grundy and Gawn to stand without jumping and hack the ball forward from ruck contests.

Interesting. I'm an ex ruck and I simply don't understand why the law makers want to determine the type of ruckmen that should exist in the game. Rucks should be allowed to ruck any way they like...within the rules of the game. If some of them are tall and stand to tap and others want to take a run up and jump then so be it. May the better man win.

More madness from the AFL around rucking of which they have zero idea about. Get some of the old ruck champs in a room to determine what would be best. Blokes like Madden (both of them as they were so different, Peter Moore, Goldstein, NicNat would add a lot of value in making sensible rules around ruckmen.

 

[My Tilly]

Interesting. I'm an ex ruck and I simply don't understand why the law makers want to determine the type of ruckmen that should exist in the game. Rucks should be allowed to ruck any way they like...within the rules of the game. If some of them are tall and stand to tap and others want to take a run up and jump then so be it. May the better man win.

More madness from the AFL around rucking of which they have zero idea about. Get some of the old ruck champs in a room to determine what would be best. Blokes like Madden (both of them as they were so different, Peter Moore, Goldstein, NicNat would add a lot of value in making sensible rules around ruckmen.

Couldn't agree with more.
This is the AFL for you. Obsessed with changing the rules every 5 years.

 

[Toump Ass]

When you consider Gawn, Cox, Sandilands, Naitanui and Grundy have 23 All-Australian jumpers between them, but only 2 flags speaks volumes

23 All Australian jumpers, but 8 of them belong to Max Gawn and he's been at a rabble for a lot of that time.

 

[Proper Gander]

When you consider Gawn, Cox, Sandilands, Naitanui and Grundy have 23 All-Australian jumpers between them, but only 2 flags speaks volumes

Maybe. Not big volumes though. Takes more than one effective player to get a flag as a rule.

 

[A Swallow]

Peak Corey McKernan would be worth this sort of coin, can de Koning reach that level?

Peak Corey McKernan would be worth an insane amount in the modern game. Super mobile, highly skilled, great hands, kicked long goals.

 

[kane249]

23 All Australian jumpers, but 8 of them belong to Max Gawn and he's been at a rabble for a lot of that time.

Maybe. Not big volumes though. Takes more than one effective player to get a flag as a rule.

Which again proves the OPs point about how overpaying for a ruck doesn't seem worth it for flag success, it's a low conversion rate. Better to spend up elsewhere and go with an honest battler instead in the ruck

 

[Proper Gander]

Which again proves he OPs point about how overpaying for a ruck doesn't seem worth it for flag success

Not really. I mean you pay a bit for any AA quality player - and some of them don’t get you a flag. It’s not limited to Rucks. Carlton, or at least media, have been pumping up elite players on their list for years. No flags.

 

[Toump Ass]

Overpaying for a ruck doesn't seem worth it for flag success

I don't think overpaying for anyone is good idea, probably why it's called "overpaying" maybe.

 

[Underdog]

Meanwhile, Brodie Grundy has appeared in two losing grand final sides, and Nic Naitanui also featured in two runner-up teams both elite talents, but not enough to push their clubs over the line.

In fairness, West Coast would have been a better side in 2018 with Naitanui playing had he not copped an injury before finals. He was also only in one runner-up team.

 

[Kappa]

Even then only 2 flags for Gawn and Cox, so it just shows having an elite ruck doesn't give you a dynasty

I mean you can say the same about every single position in the comp... 1 player can't win u a flag

 

[Tasmanian saint]

Au contrare.

Half the number of throwins, and in positions where a key position player can compete?

And entirely predictable ball ups in the centre?

I'd suggest now is not the time to be throwing huge cheques at ruckmen.

Why are Geelong so keen to bring in Marshall than if it not a good time

 

[Tasmanian saint]

Gawn and Cox were in a different class to the other two to be fair

So effectively unless you have the two clear best ruckman of at least the last 40 years (Gawn & Cox) you are better off with an average workhorse as ruckman

It’s a stupid argument people make against ruckman really. Can a team win a premiership with a average to good ruckman yes , would that same team be a better chance to win a premiership with max Gawn as there ruckman its a simple answer really

 

[Tasmanian saint]

There will also be the last touch rule... meaning far fewer boundary throw ins...

Can’t see it lasting once injuries go through the roof due to less stoppages and breaks in play the players association will jump up and down. They have tried it before in pre season comps it wasn’t popular then won’t be any different this time

 

[FootyLad0]

Why are Geelong so keen to bring in Marshall than if it not a good time

Cats have been keen on Marshall since 2022.
Has no standing on ruck rule changes.

And their interest has always been "If we can get him then great, but we aren't paying overs"

Chris Scott's priority list has always had ruck quite low.
I'm positive Rowan is very open to moving and that's why this is picking up more steam than last year when he requested to move.

 

[Kappa]

People are using premierships as the only measure of success way too much.

Plenty of the best mids in AFL/VFL history won 0 flags.

1 Great player doesn't make your team win flags.

The impact guys like Gawn Natanui ect had on games was immense.

Collingwoods rise up the ladder strongly coincided with Darcy Cameron

14

Darcy Cameron

Age

30

Ht

204cm

Wt

103kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

6.0

1star

K

3.3

1star

HB

2.7

2star

CL

0.3

2star

HO

5.3

5star

D

7.5

2star

K

4.5

2star

HB

3.0

2star

CL

0.5

3star

HO

3.5

5star

D

6.0

2star

K

3.3

2star

HB

2.7

3star

CL

0.3

2star

HO

5.3

5star

's improved form