Society/Culture Ruckus on the Rock

Balls In

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''Immigrants dont respect our culture!''

Nek minute, climbs Uluru.

The main reason for discouraging the climb is actually to do with safety. Its not the action of climbing on the rock that is causing offence. The sign at the bottom of the climb states; "Please don't climb, under our traditional law climbing is not permitted. As custodians we are responsible for your safety and behaviour. Too many people have died or been hurt and its causing great sadness". The indigenous people believe that some of the dreamtime spirits are dangerous which is why they perform smoking and water blessing to give visitors safe passage. If people are killed or injured they feel responsible that they haven't done their job to reassure the spirits of the land about their visitors.
 
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Dazlington

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Self reports as a tool. Thanks for making it easy for us.

Correct me if I'm wrong but don't you complain about people coming to Australia and not 'respecting the local culture'?

Hypocrite.

Gonna need to see some proof
 
Oct 2, 2007
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Fake new Mal, fake news.

Yeah, nah:

"The local Aṉangu do not climb Uluru because of its great spiritual significance. They request that visitors do not climb the rock, partly due to the path crossing a sacred traditional Dreamtime track, and also due to a sense of responsibility for the safety of visitors. The visitors guide says "the climb is not prohibited, but we prefer that, as a guest on Aṉangu land, you will choose to respect our law and culture by not climbing."

My understanding is the main reason that climbing is culturally shunned is should a climber injure or hurt themselves it impacts the whole community adversely. Uluru basically serves as a community hub of sorts.

It's not expressly forbidden in the local custom to climb it, but it is shunned.

It's like being invited to your neighbors house for dinner and then doing a s**t in his bathroom sink. It's not expressly forbidden, but it's a dick move.

There is an express prohbition on photography at certain areas as well, due to some cites being reserved for mens (or womens) buisiness, and the risk that a photograph might be inadvertantly spotted by the wrong gender, breaking an important taboo.

I mean when you ask the traditional owners they'll literally tell you that (culturally) they prefer no-one to climb it, and when it comes to photos definately do not want anyone taking photos in certain areas.

You'd prefer me not to climb your traditional cultural hub and sacred site? I wont climb it. When you invite me to your house, church, Ger hut, temple or whatever, the onus is on me to be respectful of your beliefs and not be a dick.
 

Dazlington

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Besides as an Australian I have just as big a claim to the rock as they do so I say let people climb.

Climbed the stairway to heaven in Oahu earlier this year which is also “illegal” and was one of the best experiences of my life
 
Oct 2, 2007
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The main reason for discouraging the climb is actually to do with safety. Its not the action of climbing on the rock that is causing offence. The sign at the bottom of the climb states; "Please don't climb, under our traditional law climbing is not permitted. As custodians we are responsible for your safety and behaviour. Too many people have died or been hurt and its causing great sadness". The indigenous people believe that some of the dreamtime spirits are dangerous which is why they perform smoking and water blessing to give visitors safe passage. If people are killed or injured they feel responsible that they haven't done their job to reassure the spirits of the land about their visitors.

Exactly. So dont be a dick and climb it.
 
Oct 2, 2007
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Man made structures made to massage egos and honour gods is one thing.

A rock sticking out of the ground is another. Just climb the bloody thing.

And lets be honest, the only reason we respect other countries silly little customs when we are there is because we are afraid the locals will throw us a terrible beating.

I thought you lefties would be all for sharing 'one in all in' and 'we as a collective own everything kill the bourgeoisie blah blah blah.'

Now you don't even want tourists walking on your rocks.

If you didn't have something to whinge about you'd have nothing.

* off Moshie you tool.
 
Apr 12, 2010
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Would you piss on the Shrine, or graffiti the War Memorial?

No one in their right mind would, and likewise as Malifice says, even the biggest ignorant bogan wouldn't climb a Hindu or Buddhist temple.

I wonder then why some people see this differently? I guess all of those other examples were built by humans for that specific, sacred purpose. Uluru was not. It is a gift provided by nature. It's sacred importance came afterwards. Not that that means it should be dismissed, but I do think it makes it different.

Pissing on the Shrine is a demonstration of contempt for what it was built for. I don't think it can be interpreted as much else (except perhaps incontinence)

Climbing the rock, is a demonstration of contempt/ignorance for one group of people's beliefs. But it could also be seen, by some, as merely a want or desire to explore a fascinating part of nature.

If we are going to try and create meaningful analogies that cut through with "white, colonial male aussie culture" I think you need to find other NATURAL landmarks to which the white man has attributed significance. How would we feel about a surfing carnival at Suvla Bay, or Paintball at The Nek?

Then again, Indigenous Australian's were not known for construction, but very much so for their connection with the natural environment. Perhaps it is here that the real disconnect in understanding lies.
 
Apr 8, 2007
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Fake new Mal, fake news.

I had the opportunity of speaking with Paddy Uluru early in my work in Central Australia (I arrived in December 1974).
Mr Uluru was the undisputed custodian of The Rock at that time.
We spoke face to face at the base of monolith, and he was happy to be photographed with the Rock in the background. (Restrictions on photography of The Rock has since developed into a nasty, bitter and divisive issue. Apart from anything else the rules are stifling millions of dollars worth of free publicity of this tourist attraction.)
Mr Uluru told me if tourists are stupid enough to climb the Rock, they’re welcome to it.
For him there was nothing of practical value up there such as water, game nor edible plants.
He made it clear that knowledge of certain elements of the Rock’s dreaming must remain secret, to be known only by a strictly defined circle of people.
That knowledge would be passed on to outsiders at the pain of serious punishment and perhaps death.
But the physical act of climbing was of no cultural interest, Mr Uluru told me.

Maybe then, this is what the “don’t climb” campaign is all about (also quoting from the management plan): “Considerable resources are dedicated to managing the climb and to related health and safety issues.

“Maintenance of the park’s vertical rescue capability requires that the numerous staff involved undertake intensive external training and regular in-house training.

“Each time an incident occurs several staff and emergency personnel are involved and helicopters are often utilised.

“Search and rescue operations in the park often require those involved to undertake some level of personal risk.”

Translation: It’s all too hard?

The park is Federally funded. It had an operating cost of $15,306,000 in 2013-14 and received external revenue of $6,778,000, largely made up of ticket sales.
The Rock: To climb or not to climb – Alice Springs News

www.alicespringsnews.com.au
www.alicespringsnews.com.au
Ever heard of using quotes?
 

Dazlington

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It's self evident.

I mean you're the kind of guy who creates alias accounts to troll internet forums with bulls**t to elicit an adverse response.

That's the work of a textbook tool wouldnt you agree?

Yeah gonna need proof of that claim too.

You don’t like my opinion do melt and start name calling. So much for sensible discussion on a site when they are the actions of a “moderator”
 

TimmeT

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Seems that those against climbing the rock like to put up a lot of strawman argurments, make points which are simple whataboutism and dismiss any examples of others doing the same type of behaviour as they see clmbing the rock as...
 
Does anyone else find it amusing when lefties will bend over backwards towards any random ancient superstitious belief of certain races yet constantly ridicule say white people that believe in attending a church?
You could argue that this could get caught up in the religious freedoms debate with Indigenous Australian using their faith as a reason to block people climbing Uluru in the same way that a faith based school has the right to block people from certain positions
 
Fake new Mal, fake news.

I had the opportunity of speaking with Paddy Uluru early in my work in Central Australia (I arrived in December 1974).
Mr Uluru was the undisputed custodian of The Rock at that time.
We spoke face to face at the base of monolith, and he was happy to be photographed with the Rock in the background. (Restrictions on photography of The Rock has since developed into a nasty, bitter and divisive issue. Apart from anything else the rules are stifling millions of dollars worth of free publicity of this tourist attraction.)
Mr Uluru told me if tourists are stupid enough to climb the Rock, they’re welcome to it.
For him there was nothing of practical value up there such as water, game nor edible plants.
He made it clear that knowledge of certain elements of the Rock’s dreaming must remain secret, to be known only by a strictly defined circle of people.
That knowledge would be passed on to outsiders at the pain of serious punishment and perhaps death.
But the physical act of climbing was of no cultural interest, Mr Uluru told me.

Maybe then, this is what the “don’t climb” campaign is all about (also quoting from the management plan): “Considerable resources are dedicated to managing the climb and to related health and safety issues.

“Maintenance of the park’s vertical rescue capability requires that the numerous staff involved undertake intensive external training and regular in-house training.

“Each time an incident occurs several staff and emergency personnel are involved and helicopters are often utilised.

“Search and rescue operations in the park often require those involved to undertake some level of personal risk.”

Translation: It’s all too hard?

The park is Federally funded. It had an operating cost of $15,306,000 in 2013-14 and received external revenue of $6,778,000, largely made up of ticket sales.
The Rock: To climb or not to climb – Alice Springs News

www.alicespringsnews.com.au
www.alicespringsnews.com.au
If it takes too many resources to manage it, then shut it down.

Otherwise I'd say charge people $10k a pop.

Let the rich pay for the privilege and keep a few people employed.
 

Fat Yak

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If it takes too many resources to manage it, then shut it down.

Otherwise I'd say charge people $10k a pop.

Let the rich pay for the privilege and keep a few people employed.
Yep I don't mind if they charge a fortune to climb the rock, just don't make up BS about it being a sacred site.
 
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Balls In

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Just another front in the culture wars in which aging white men take offence at being told they can't do something anymore.
Well I'm an aging white man and I can confirm that yes I'm mightily perplexed at increasing restrictions at the places I used to love to visit. I feel for my kids and the generations to come who will never experience what I have, partly because some dickheads in Canberra decided to double our population in 20 years, and partly because the various bureaucracies are incompetent.

The restrictions that really piss me off are councils and DWER (the old CALM) who think the only way to manage remote locations is to charge/lock out/block off. They have really ****ed all of the best tourist locations imo. I guess many will see the Uluru restriction in the same context.
 
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rank and file

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The Nepalese dont have any cultural rules against climbing Everest. Heck; the second guy to do it (by a few seconds) was Nepalese.



They're not climbing the bastard are they?



Whats that got to do with anything?



Thats being a bogan s**t, not being disrespectful.



Only for s**t-campaigner tourists. Most people I travel with dont ride the elephants, or swim with the whale sharks. They cover up in temples, and are respectful and deferential to local customs and cultural norms.
What's wrong with swimming with whale sharks?
 
Oct 2, 2007
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The board announced in 2010 that it would close the climb once the proportion of visitors to Uluru who chose to climb the rock fell below 20%. The ABC reported it was then at 38%, down from 74% in the 1990s, but as of 2015, it was down to 16.2%.

A spokesman for Parks Australia said 87% of visitors now chose not to climb Uluru, although there had been an increase in the number of visitors. In the last financial year there were 395,338 visitors to the park, up 20% on the previous financial year.



The idea that closing the climb is going to cause the locals some sort of financial calamity is ludicrous.

Essentially, you're a dickhead if you choose to climb - best of luck to the tiny minority of tourists and the handful of angry white keyboard warriors in their losing battle.
 
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