Society/Culture Ruckus on the Rock

Goosecat

All Australian
Sep 9, 2006
970
838
Mandurah
AFL Club
West Coast
It's never been about some cultural requirement to not climb it, we know that and there is plenty of genuine evidence regarding indigenous climbers themselves and past traditional owners not giving a crap about it.
They just haven't seen any benefit in climbing the thing really.. There's no tree cover, plants, game or water up there (other than the odd hole that fills during a wet season when it isn't needed).
To me the whole banning climbing (it's not about costs, maintenance and rescues) is about gaining and demonstrating ownership and control of the land (rock in this case) by having an ability to place restrictions and rules that others must respect and obey.
The current Traditional owner and board chairman Sammy Wilson basically admits as much himself "'If I travel to another country and there is a sacred site, I don't enter or climb it, I respect it. It is the same here for Anangu ". "It is an extremely important place, not a playground or theme park like Disneyland"
There's not some long held cultural belief in staying off the rock or anything. It's just the indigenous traditional "owners" of today, like the idea of gaining and demonstrating ownership and demanding respect, in their minds, by enabling restrictions that prove they have control and ownership.
Their predecessor traditional owners held more to the traditional cultural views that no one owned the land and if you were silly enough to want to climb it then go for it.
I get the newer generations more determined desire for demonstrable, controlled ownership and control of access. Some could argue that's fair enough and their right to do so. I do find it somewhat ironic though, that a land which is supposedly not "owned" by anyone, finds itself being claimed and demonstrably "owned" now, by the very cultures who always claimed no one owns it and that it can never be owned.:huh:.
I'm wondering when science will eventually discover the current descendants of the people who roamed the area thousands of years before even the Pitjantjatjara (of which there is already decent evidence) and that the Anangu have no more ability to "own" the rock than they.
It's all a pi**ing contest really. "It's ours now, and you mob can bloody respect that".
 
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FireKraquora

Norm Smith Medallist
Jul 5, 2011
6,771
10,580
AFL Club
Collingwood
It's never been about some cultural requirement to not climb it, we know that and there is plenty of genuine evidence regarding indigenous climbers themselves and past traditional owners not giving a crap about it.
They just haven't seen any benefit in climbing the thing really.. There's no tree cover,plants, game or water up there (other than the odd hole that fills during a wet season when it isn't needed).
To me the whole banning climbing (it's not about costs, maintenance and rescues) is about gaining and demonstrating ownership and control of the land (rock in this case) by having an ability to place restrictions and rules that others must respect and obey.
The current Traditional owner and board chairman Sammy Wilson basically admits as much himself "'If I travel to another country and there is a sacred site, I don't enter or climb it, I respect it. It is the same here for Anangu ". "It is an extremely important place, not a playground or theme park like Disneyland"
There's not some long held cultural belief in staying off the rock or anything. It's just the indigenous traditional "owners" of today like the idea of gaining and demonstrating ownership and demanding respect in their minds, by enabling restrictions that prove they have control and ownership.
Their predecessor traditional owners held more to the traditional cultural views that no one owned the land and if you were silly enough to want to climb it then go for it.
I get the newer generations more determined desire for demonstrable, controlled ownership and control of access. Some could argue that's fair enough and their right to do so. I do find it somewhat ironic though, that a land which is supposedly not "owned" by anyone finds itself being claimed and demonstrably "owned" now by the very cultures who always claimed no one owns it and that it can never be owned.:huh:.
I'm wondering when science will eventually discover the current decedents of the people who roamed the area thousands of years before even the Pitjantjatjara (of which there is already decent evidence) and that the Anangu have no more ability to "own" the rock than they.
It's all a pi**ing contest really. "It's ours now, and you mob can bloody respect that".
Seems like a counter productive attitude by the new "owners". Prohibiting access just to show off that it is "theirs". Why not turn the climb into an educational experience re indigenous culture, monetize it for the benefit of their community etc, if there are no serious religious reasons for keeping people away?
 

Snake_Baker

L'enfant terrible
Apr 24, 2013
47,099
87,329
inside your head
AFL Club
North Melbourne
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The Unicornia Reactants
I am going to piss on this great lump of feldspar the moment I eventually arrive at its locale.........................and I don't give two fu**s about any offence it might cause to any persons who house backward superstitions.
 

CM86

Anindilyakwa
Sep 21, 2009
9,988
7,980
AFL Club
St Kilda
Whatever it takes to bring people out of the dark ages.

I don't discriminate.
As a man of research and science. Do you believe pi**ing on Ayers Rock will bring people 'out of the dark ages'?

Research I've seen, and personal experience informs me that if you directly attack someones beliefs or views (especially with facts) it tends to make them even more ardent in their position due to being forced to defend their beliefs.

Education tends to be a much better approach.
 

CheapCharlie

Premiership Player
Jun 12, 2015
4,889
5,139
AFL Club
Sydney
As a man of research and science. Do you believe pi**ing on Ayers Rock will bring people 'out of the dark ages'?

Research I've seen, and personal experience informs me that if you directly attack someones beliefs or views (especially with facts) it tends to make them even more ardent in their position due to being forced to defend their beliefs.

Education tends to be a much better approach.
When will you start down this education road?
 

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Snake_Baker

L'enfant terrible
Apr 24, 2013
47,099
87,329
inside your head
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
The Unicornia Reactants
As a man of research and science. Do you believe pi**ing on Ayers Rock will bring people 'out of the dark ages'?

Research I've seen, and personal experience informs me that if you directly attack someones beliefs or views (especially with facts) it tends to make them even more ardent in their position due to being forced to defend their beliefs.


Education tends to be a much better approach.
This is why you are a twit.
 

CheapCharlie

Premiership Player
Jun 12, 2015
4,889
5,139
AFL Club
Sydney
I have no problem with climbing the rock being banned. it seems a bit daft really to go all this way and see this magnificent imposing structure and then for some reason people want to climb it
 

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