Rudd vs Gillard reprised: The Killing Season, ABC TV

[Maggie5]

It's all well and good to rail against some on here who show a deep lack of understanding

Stopped reading...

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

Gillard did have good poll numbers when she replaced Rudd. From memory ~60%, although Wiki says ~56%.

By all means, advance your argument as to why Swan and his mining tax weren't the personification of a festering bag and the s**t it contains. If nothing else, your rampant delusion should be mildly entertaining.

Ah, mate - I already did. The point is that if you disagree with what I said you should come up with information that backs your argument. You came up with the Kohler article which I pointed out didn't disagree with anything I had said. You then relied on verballing followed by cheap insults. So my original retort stands and your still welcome to reply with cogent info if you disagree.

 

[Demosthenes]

The article articulates in great detail how Swan is a useless idiot and his mining tax was complete garbage. If you disagree with that assessment, then you are welcome to rebut it. Presently your avoidance is speaking volumes.

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

The article articulates in great detail how Swan is a useless idiot and his mining tax was complete garbage. If you disagree with that assessment, then you are welcome to rebut it. Presently your avoidance is speaking volumes.

Back to cheap insults, plus a dose of re-writing history.

My "avoidance" isn't visible in the original arguments I made (below) and which you replied to with an Alan Kohler article you clearly don't fully understand. If you did understand, you'd be able to express your argument without just bleating broad pejoratives. I guess we should just stop boring everyone with this convo until you're actually up for it.

The boom was at its strongest during the Labor years. But the mining companies wrote off their record investment levels at that time in order to minimise profits and get them to mostly fall under the "super profits" threshold. They couldn't have done this for the next financial year, and the tax did raise some revenue - a quarter of a billion from memory (EDIT: Wiki says $126M in the first 6 months so maybe it was a bit higher - PEEFO projected a $6B take over forward estimates, but of course Abbott repealed it in Sep 2014 and resource prices have dropped).

Of course if the tax had come back in Howard's time then there's no reason to think Howard wouldn't have done exactly what he did do with the mining boom revenue then - give it back to people in cash handouts and tax cuts. Infrastructure wasn't his thing.

A mining tax was a good way to deal with the two-speed economy (helping the slow-moving sectors in Australia, including via a large cut in the corporate tax rate, by skimming off the mining sector that was profiting beyond high expectations). Kohler's central complaint in that article is that the second version allowed more tax write-offs and was tied to an increase in the superannuation guarantee levy. The former is what allowed companies to do what I said companies did due to reducing the amount of tax they owed. The latter complaint isn't directly relevant as it is a separate govt decision, even though it does undercut the benefit of the corporate tax cut.

 

[medusala]

A mate of mine sat next to Combet at a lunch recently; the above is accurate.

Given his health issues, the sacrifices to stay, in light of the above, were too much.

Damn shame.

Perth bloke in mining and with political connections was telling me last week re Martin Ferguson and the mining tax and getting nowhere telling Gillard and Swan what an utterly moronic thing it was to do. The person was full of praise for him (and utterly scathing about Swan). Tanner, Combet and Ferguson get good wraps from people in business. Perhaps if they weren't sidelined so much the govt wouldn't have been the utter trainwreck it was.

Back to cheap insults, plus a dose of re-writing history.

Humour

 

[Demosthenes]

My "avoidance" isn't visible in the original arguments I made (below) and which you replied to with an Alan Kohler article you clearly don't fully understand.

The article outlines Swan's utter turd of a policy and his ineptitude in putting it together. If you believe Swan isn't an inept turd, you are free to rebut the article. Pretty simple, I'd have thought.

If you can't be bothered doing that, I can only assume you agree Swan is an inept turd.

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

Waiting 16 days before you repeat the same argument does not make it a new argument.

 

[medusala]

Waiting 16 days before you repeat the same argument does not make it a new argument.

Hey Ratts where was the iron ore price when the ALP introduced the mining tax? Where is it now?

You do realise that the govt would have shared profits AND losses with the miners don't you? How many iron ore miners do you reckon are making a profit at the current iron ore price?

What would the budgetary effect of that have been, particularly given when iron ore was closer to $100 a tonne very little revenue was being raised?

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

It was a 'super profits' tax, not a 'profits' tax, and I think lots of Iron Ore companies would still be making profits. Have you looked it up?

 

[King Elvis]

What were the offsets and trade offs again?

How would they have fared given the recent shifts?

 

[Demosthenes]

Waiting 16 days before you repeat the same argument does not make it a new argument.

Dodging the question over and over doesn't make you look any less silly.

 

[Dry Rot]

You do realise that the govt would have shared profits AND losses with the miners don't you?

This.

It was an absurd policy, and everyone involved with it at the Treasury should have been sacked.

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

This.

It was an absurd policy, and everyone involved with it at the Treasury should have been sacked.

Maybe you could look up those figures for Meds and King Elvis? Despite Meds' enthusiasm for the topic he's off in the restrict-votes thread instead of answering the question he himself posed...

 

[medusala]

It was a 'super profits' tax, not a 'profits' tax, and I think lots of Iron Ore companies would still be making profits. Have you looked it up?

No Ratts. Probably only Rio and BHP are making a profit at $50 a tonne. Fortescue allegedly around $45 a tonne (then add interest etc on). Others would be doing their arse to a varying degree. See problems Atlas Iron have been having.

It was an idiotic idea from the start. Treasury were clueless re how state royalties were applied and re how capital markets worked. Swan was utterly clueless and carried on despite Ferguson and others telling him what a campaigner of an idea it was.

 

[The Punter]

Swan probably had many (real or imagined) reasons for not trusting Ferguson, but Ferguson was always going to try and bring the Mining companies with him, so he wasn't involved.

By the end, Ferguson probably enjoyed his situation as inside the Cabinet but somewhat of an outsider.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

I watched this after Nemesis as hadn't seen it before.

Rudd came off better than expected for me, ALP really did * up knifing him in his first term! Hope they've learnt you stick fat regardless of the polls and media swill.

Gillard came off poorly in episode 2 but I felt bad for her in episode 3, the grubs like Alan Jones and Tony Abbott bringing her dead father into it, despicable.

Rudd clearly still bitter and destabilised Gillard's time as PM but what do you expect? It's like Turnbull complaining about being shafted for Morrison after he did the same to Abbott.

I see many here thought Combet came off well but I didn't, I thought he came across as too emotional. High praise earlier in this thread by some for Albanese too, I wonder what they think now?

 

[QuietB]

The article articulates in great detail how Swan is a useless idiot and his mining tax was complete garbage. If you disagree with that assessment, then you are welcome to rebut it. Presently your avoidance is speaking volumes.

I will never understand this. Australian Mining is 86% foreign owned.

86%

And conservative simps do not want it taxed. Ever. Cause tax bad.