NRL Rugby league expansion

[DEVO]

Clubs come and go. As much as people are born into supporting them, future generations would get as adapted and adopted into other new clubs or relocated clubs. Generational change. No one cries anymore for Fitzroy AR, or Glebe, Newtown, etc in RL.

The bigger picture, the long-term sustainability of a sport itself (not even the league itself), is key. Look at the Brisbane comps for instance, how it morphed over the decades, so many clubs died, merged, till we have the current QLD Cup now and the teams there.

If the Super League had won in the 90s, for instance, just wore down the ARL over time and there wasn't a healing process.....today there'd be a genuine national RL comp, and at some point expanded to include Townsville, NZ, Wollongong, Central Coast. Fans of the Knights would've eventually adopted the Mariners, or the new generation of kids would have, for instance.

Have always thought the best way to creating a national comp was creating new Sydney clubs and having all those famous old clubs still exist in the NSWRL sub-tier only, to keep their histories. The breaking away of, the division of Sydney clubs, is what the problem with SL was. If they instead created four new Sydney clubs (north south, east, west) and left the others to the ARL, and then over time SL got richer stronger corporate backing, RL imo would've eventually been as strong as AFL...especially if they invested money into grassroots along the way, not just broken away to cause damage and eventually fold.

I know my stance is very controversial, and harsh, but I do believe it would've worked better in shifting long-term the masses of RL fans over to an appreciation for it, and disenfranchised fans eventually coming back because the love of the sport overrides...new star players to enthuse over, new rivalries, new histories being forged.

Because the alternative path is what happens now in both AFL and NRL, where the leagues have to start trying to force clubs to merge and lose their identities, or to die out, or to relocate against their wishes. And that will only keep causing tension, dismay, and worse the loss of famous old clubs -- who'd be better of being preserved in a local sub-tier state comp feeder league.

Seems like an idea thought up by a Queenslander, and/or someone who hasn't learnt from mistakes made in the past. I reckon the NRL would merge with the NSWRL or fold all together within 2-3 years because this time you have the big Sydney clubs (Parramatta, South Sydney, Canterbury and Sydney City - maybe St. George and Penrith) all united unlike 1996/97.

The NRL heartland in Western Sydney will NEVER follow a "made up" team that is supposed to represent their area, they will stick with their traditional clubs of Parramatta, Penrith, Canterbury and the Tigers (actually I think that merger would break apart) their supporters all around Australia won't care about the "National League" they would support the NSWRL greatly reducing the profitability of the "National League". It wouldn't be too different in the other areas, especially in the inner city where the Rabbitohs/Roosters rivalry is almost more important than the league itself, to the supporters anyway.

 

[RedV3x]

Pipe dream but one day I'd like another Victorian NRL team.

They did similar in the AFL adding additional QLD and NSW expansion teams,

No it wasn't "similar". there situations are vastly different.
People have got stop saying because one sport did something then it automatically follows.

 

[phantom13]

Another Victorian team can probably be supported from a population stand point but it probably depends on the AFL and whether a team relocates when they inevitably expand again.

As it is Vic supports

10 AFL teams
1 NRL team
2 NBL teams
2 BBL teams
3 A League Teams

Plus an F1 GP and a Tennis Grand Slam...

Its alot to have at your doorstep and in terms of members etc theres only so many dollars to go round. If you were a member of just the AFL, NRL, NBL and went with a ground pass to each of the F1 and Tennis youd be looking somewhere between 800-2k (and that not high end memberships either) expand that out to a family etc.

 

[juss]

No it wasn't "similar". there situations are vastly different.
People have got stop saying because one sport did something then it automatically follows.

Actually it was similar.

They took a one team state in a market dominated by a different code, and added a team.

Similar doesn't mean exactly the same.

 

[RedV3x]

They took a one team state in a market dominated by a different code, and added a team.

But the conditions were completely different.
Both N.S.W. and Queensland had healthy numbers for existing competitions.
Bringing AFL to N.S.W. and Queensland was initially a stepping up and then a broadening of the supporter base.
Victoria was basically creating a team for r.l. expats.

 

[Get Rid of AwFuL]

Really surprised QLD hasn't had more teams by now. It's just as a big of a League state as NSW.

As for WA - it might end up being a relocation unfortunately, and the NRL doesn't have the proverbials to make that call.

Greater Brisbane should have three teams. Perth should definitely get the next licence, but I wouldn't be surprised if the ARLC went with Brisbane 3.

I want to see the Easts Tigers buy up land and run businesses in Logan and Ipswich to help them generate a strong fanbase for the Firehawks when they bid for an NRL licence. They already have junior clubs in Logan's Rochedale South/Priestdale, Springwood, Flagstone and one planned for Yarrabilba. I'd love to see them buy up the Springwood Hotel and Springwood Feast. It could be a real money spinner for the club and make them as powerful as Redcliffe.

 

[Get Rid of AwFuL]

Clubs come and go. As much as people are born into supporting them, future generations would get as adapted and adopted into other new clubs or relocated clubs. Generational change. No one cries anymore for Fitzroy AR, or Glebe, Newtown, etc in RL.

The bigger picture, the long-term sustainability of a sport itself (not even the league itself), is key. Look at the Brisbane comps for instance, how it morphed over the decades, so many clubs died, merged, till we have the current QLD Cup now and the teams there.

If the Super League had won in the 90s, for instance, just wore down the ARL over time and there wasn't a healing process.....today there'd be a genuine national RL comp, and at some point expanded to include Townsville, NZ, Wollongong, Central Coast. Fans of the Knights would've eventually adopted the Mariners, or the new generation of kids would have, for instance.

Have always thought the best way to creating a national comp was creating new Sydney clubs and having all those famous old clubs still exist in the NSWRL sub-tier only, to keep their histories. The breaking away of, the division of Sydney clubs, is what the problem with SL was. If they instead created four new Sydney clubs (north south, east, west) and left the others to the ARL, and then over time SL got richer stronger corporate backing, RL imo would've eventually been as strong as AFL...especially if they invested money into grassroots along the way, not just broken away to cause damage and eventually fold.

I know my stance is very controversial, and harsh, but I do believe it would've worked better in shifting long-term the masses of RL fans over to an appreciation for it, and disenfranchised fans eventually coming back because the love of the sport overrides...new star players to enthuse over, new rivalries, new histories being forged.

Because the alternative path is what happens now in both AFL and NRL, where the leagues have to start trying to force clubs to merge and lose their identities, or to die out, or to relocate against their wishes. And that will only keep causing tension, dismay, and worse the loss of famous old clubs -- who'd be better of being preserved in a local sub-tier state comp feeder league.

North Queensland Cowboys were a Super League club and one of the best attended in 1997, despite finishing last. News Ltd offered Illawarra Steelers a spot in Super League and their coach Graham Murray was interested in negotiating with them, so the club sacked him. The irony is the club would have survived if they accepted News Ltd's offer.

I think Sydney's weaker clubs could have survived as merged entities. I'd have kept Parramatta Eels, Penrith Panthers and Sydney Roosters as stand alone clubs and merged the following:

North Sydney Bears and Manly Warringah Sea Eagles

- - > North Sydney Sea Eagles

Just not enough demand in northern Sydney for two teams.

South Sydney Rabbitohs and St George Dragons

- - > South Sydney Dragons

South Sydney were St George were broke. Southern Sydney isn't big enough to support St George and Cronulla, so I'd get rid of the Sharks and have the Dragons reclaim the area. Cronulla could merge with Perth Reds to become the West Coast Sharks.

Western Suburbs Magpies and Canterbury Bulldogs

- - > Western Sydney Bulldogs

Magpies were on their knees and Canterbury were a popular club boxed into the inner-west, so it makes sense.

Balmain were in talks with Easts Tigers and Gold Coast Chargers to become the East Coast Tigers. That would have been a good deal for Brisbane.

Illawarra needed to go as they were financially unviable and had a small fanbase.

 

[Get Rid of AwFuL]

GG.exe and juss very clever ideas from you both. unfortunately the longer term expansion was clearly never part of the original competitions plans and its developed more like Sydneys road network.

FWIW i was in Redcliffe a couple of weeks ago and stopped in at their league club, bought myself a guernsey and walked around the ground for a bit.

I was born in QLD and supported the Broncos all my life but may very well take up an interstate membership for the dolphins...

I'm a diehard Cowboys fan but will also support The Dolphins, despite also being a Wynnum Manly Seagulls supporter. I've already bought Dolphins NRL apparel.

 

[lachjeff]

North Queensland Cowboys were a Super League club and one of the best attended in 1997, despite finishing last. News Ltd offered Illawarra Steelers a spot in Super League and their coach Graham Murray was interested in negotiating with them, so the club sacked him. The irony is the club would have survived if they accepted News Ltd's offer.

I think Sydney's weaker clubs could have survived as merged entities. I'd have kept Parramatta Eels, Penrith Panthers and Sydney Roosters as stand alone clubs and merged the following:

North Sydney Bears and Manly Warringah Sea Eagles

- - > North Sydney Sea Eagles

Just not enough demand in northern Sydney for two teams.

South Sydney Rabbitohs and St George Dragons

- - > South Sydney Dragons

South Sydney were St George were broke. Southern Sydney isn't big enough to support St George and Cronulla, so I'd get rid of the Sharks and have the Dragons reclaim the area. Cronulla could merge with Perth Reds to become the West Coast Sharks.

Western Suburbs Magpies and Canterbury Bulldogs

- - > Western Sydney Bulldogs

Magpies were on their knees and Canterbury were a popular club boxed into the inner-west, so it makes sense.

Balmain were in talks with Easts Tigers and Gold Coast Chargers to become the East Coast Tigers. That would have been a good deal for Brisbane.

Illawarra needed to go as they were financially unviable and had a small fanbase.

Norths and Manly did merge. They were called the Northern Eagles. They were unsuccessful because the two clubs fans hated each other and were disbanded after three seasons.

St George weren't broke like Souths and Illawarra. They still had money, but had no juniors. Illawarra had the opposite problem, which was what lead to their merger (or takeover). A Souths/Dragons merger probably wouldn't have worked for similar reasons to the Northern Eagles. There was a proposal for Souths and Cronulla to merge, but they still would have had the same financial issues. I personally would have sent St George to Adelaide, where they had some popularity in the early 90s, plus the Penfolds sponsorship.

Wests and Canterbury nearly merged. It was only the fact that they knew it would be a takeover that lead them to merging with Balmain. Also, Canterbury-Bankstown is not the Inner West.

The East Coast Tigers would have been a decent fit, I believe, except for the fact that Brisbane had an exclusivity clause when the NRL was first formed, meaning that there couldn't be another Brisbane team. When that fell aside, Balmain nearly merged with Parramatta, but similar to Wests, knew it would be a takeover. In fact, they were pretty much told that Parramatta just wanted the Tigers name and would throw the rest of the club in the bin.

 

[Get Rid of AwFuL]

Norths and Manly did merge. They were called the Northern Eagles. They were unsuccessful because the two clubs fans hated each other and were disbanded after three seasons.

St George weren't broke like Souths and Illawarra. They still had money, but had no juniors. Illawarra had the opposite problem, which was what lead to their merger (or takeover). A Souths/Dragons merger probably wouldn't have worked for similar reasons to the Northern Eagles. There was a proposal for Souths and Cronulla to merge, but they still would have had the same financial issues. I personally would have sent St George to Adelaide, where they had some popularity in the early 90s, plus the Penfolds sponsorship.

Wests and Canterbury nearly merged. It was only the fact that they knew it would be a takeover that lead them to merging with Balmain. Also, Canterbury-Bankstown is not the Inner West.

The East Coast Tigers would have been a decent fit, I believe, except for the fact that Brisbane had an exclusivity clause when the NRL was first formed, meaning that there couldn't be another Brisbane team. When that fell aside, Balmain nearly merged with Parramatta, but similar to Wests, knew it would be a takeover. In fact, they were pretty much told that Parramatta just wanted the Tigers name and would throw the rest of the club in the bin.

North Sydney Bears were broke so Manly took control of the licence and reverted back to being a small club based out of a derelict ground. It's a shame because they could have been a force as the North Sydney Sea Eagles in red and black. Instead we got the Northern Eagles in maroon and white and a split arrangement between Gosford and Manly. Games should have been at SFS and Central Coast Stadium.

The licence should have been sold to an independent party so that neither club could try to push the other out.

South Sydney Dragons in red and green would have been pretty good. Pity none of it happened.

 

[Jatz]

North Sydney Bears were broke so Manly took control of the licence and reverted back to being a small club based out of a derelict ground. It's a shame because they could have been a force as the North Sydney Sea Eagles in red and black. Instead we got the Northern Eagles in maroon and white and a split arrangement between Gosford and Manly. Games should have been at SFS and Central Coast Stadium.

The licence should have been sold to an independent party so that neither club could try to push the other out.

South Sydney Dragons in red and green would have been pretty good. Pity none of it happened.

Manly were never going to agree to moving away from Brookie.

As for the Souths/Dragons merger - that would be like merging Collingwood and Carlton. There's so much history between Souths and the Dragons. It would be an insult to both to try and merge them.

 

[RedV3x]

South Sydney Dragons in red and green would have been pretty good. Pity none of it happened.

After all, NSW is about Welsh-men.

 

[Get Rid of AwFuL]

Manly were never going to agree to moving away from Brookie.

As for the Souths/Dragons merger - that would be like merging Collingwood and Carlton. There's so much history between Souths and the Dragons. It would be an insult to both to try and merge them.

Brookvale isn't an NRL standard venue and playing games there gives the league a bad reputation. The club shouldn't have been allowed to play at such a horrible ground.

The NRL would never let a new franchise from outside of Sydney play at such a dump.

The club should be forced to rebrand as North Sydney Sea Eagles. Manly is just a tiny suburb. It's ridiculous having a tiny suburb from the Northern Beaches in the NRL when Adelaide and Perth have no representation.

 

[Heardy_101]

Brookvale isn't an NRL standard venue and playing games there gives the league a bad reputation. The club shouldn't have been allowed to play at such a horrible ground.

The NRL would never let a new franchise from outside of Sydney play at such a dump.

The club should be forced to rebrand as North Sydney Sea Eagles. Manly is just a tiny suburb. It's ridiculous having a tiny suburb from the Northern Beaches in the NRL when Adelaide and Perth have no representation.

You clearly have an axe to grind against Manly, so half of what you say is clearly biased against the club, and also isn't exactly true, either.

The club is also called "Manly Warringah", the same as how Cronulla are actually called "Cronulla Sutherland".

Yes I'm a Manly fan, and yes I am defending them. Purely because you're attacking them without basis.

The Northern Eagles merger (sorry, "Joint Venture" as the NRL likes to call them) failed and that's not even half our fault. It should never have happened in the first place.

Yes Brookvale Oval could use some upgrades and some of these have already taken place or are going to in the future. It's by no means the worst ground, that's for sure.

I'm not saying you can't hate Manly. But it sounds like you have a major axe to grind when there isn't one.

 

[Jatz]

Brookvale isn't an NRL standard venue and playing games there gives the league a bad reputation. The club shouldn't have been allowed to play at such a horrible ground.

The NRL would never let a new franchise from outside of Sydney play at such a dump.

The club should be forced to rebrand as North Sydney Sea Eagles. Manly is just a tiny suburb. It's ridiculous having a tiny suburb from the Northern Beaches in the NRL when Adelaide and Perth have no representation.

I don't disagree that Brookvale is one of the poorer suburban grounds around but they won't ditch a ground with so much history unless it becomes dangerous (which some could argue became the case after the asbestos incident).

Again, you're ignoring history and tradition. Manly have been one of the more successful clubs over the years. The NRL will never willingly make them relocate.

 

[Get Rid of AwFuL]

You clearly have an axe to grind against Manly, so half of what you say is clearly biased against the club, and also isn't exactly true, either.

The club is also called "Manly Warringah", the same as how Cronulla are actually called "Cronulla Sutherland".

Yes I'm a Manly fan, and yes I am defending them. Purely because you're attacking them without basis.

The Northern Eagles merger (sorry, "Joint Venture" as the NRL likes to call them) failed and that's not even half our fault. It should never have happened in the first place.

Yes Brookvale Oval could use some upgrades and some of these have already taken place or are going to in the future. It's by no means the worst ground, that's for sure.

I'm not saying you can't hate Manly. But it sounds like you have a major axe to grind when there isn't one.

Manly are financially weak and have a small fanbase. They're one of the least watched clubs on Ch9 and Foxtel, making them a liability. They've never tried to broaden their appeal to cover the entire Northern Beaches and North Shore, which is why they would be bankrupt without the annual grant being 130% of the salary cap.

Warringah no longer exists and Cronulla think so little about the Shire of Sutherland that they don't even reference it in their team song.

"Up! Up! Cronulla!"

Not "Up! Up! Sutherland!"

It's stupid how The Sharks call themselves Cronulla Sutherland. The Broncos don't call themselves "Red Hill Brisbane". The Titans don't call themselves "Robina Gold Coast".

The Sharks are not a financially viable club and owed St George Bank $14 million at one point. Their last season before COVID-19 saw them lose $5.45 million. They were given a one off handout of $10 million plus another hand out of $2.5 million for COVID-19 last year that saw them barely break even. There's only 230k people in Sutherland and very little businesses in the LGA, so it's no wonder they've always been a financial basketcase with a tiny fanbase. They're one of the least watched clubs on Ch9 and Foxtel, so they offer nothing to the broadcasters. There's no justification for them to be in a national competition and their continued presence in the NRL is a liability holding the game back from expanding into large metropolitan areas like Adelaide and Perth. Only a biased New South Welshman with an entitlement complex would disagree.

I don't disagree that Brookvale is one of the poorer suburban grounds around but they won't ditch a ground with so much history unless it becomes dangerous (which some could argue became the case after the asbestos incident).

Again, you're ignoring history and tradition. Manly have been one of the more successful clubs over the years. The NRL will never willingly make them relocate.

What about the history and tradition of the BRL clubs that are older and more prestigious than Manly?

Why don't you or anyone else from Sydney care about them but expect people from Brisbane to worry about tiny Sydney clubs that couldn't run a chook raffle?

Fortitude Valley Diehards have a history that dates back to 1909 and are the most successful club in Australia. Southern Suburbs Magpies date back to 1909 as well.

Redcliffe Dolphins and Eastern Suburbs Tigers are richer than most Sydney clubs, if not all of them.

Why should small and unpopular clubs like Manly and Cronulla have a spot in the NRL ahead of Redcliffe and Easts?

Redcliffe aren't allowed to use their identify in the NRL, but if anyone suggests Manly should rebrand to North Sydney so they can appeal to North Shore and Northern Beaches then Manly fans get upset. It's a massive double standard. Manly aren't strong enough to play in the national competition. They've been successful on the field yet they have few fans and aren't a draw on TV. If the NRL wants to grow then it needs to cut the dead weight.

 

[Heardy_101]

Manly are financially weak and have a small fanbase. They're one of the least watched clubs on Ch9 and Foxtel, making them a liability. They've never tried to broaden their appeal to cover the entire Northern Beaches and North Shore, which is why they would be bankrupt without the annual grant being 130% of the salary cap.

Warringah no longer exists and Cronulla think so little about the Shire of Sutherland that they don't even reference it in their team song.

"Up! Up! Cronulla!"

Not "Up! Up! Sutherland!"

It's stupid how The Sharks call themselves Cronulla Sutherland. The Broncos don't call themselves "Red Hill Brisbane". The Titans don't call themselves "Robina Gold Coast".

The Sharks are not a financially viable club and owed St George Bank $14 million at one point. Their last season before COVID-19 saw them lose $5.45 million. They were given a one off handout of $10 million plus another hand out of $2.5 million for COVID-19 last year that saw them barely break even. There's only 230k people in Sutherland and very little businesses in the LGA, so it's no wonder they've always been a financial basketcase with a tiny fanbase. They're one of the least watched clubs on Ch9 and Foxtel, so they offer nothing to the broadcasters. There's no justification for them to be in a national competition and their continued presence in the NRL is a liability holding the game back from expanding into large metropolitan areas like Adelaide and Perth. Only a biased New South Welshman with an entitlement complex would disagree.

What about the history and tradition of the BRL clubs that are older and more prestigious than Manly?

Why don't you or anyone else from Sydney care about them but expect people from Brisbane to worry about tiny Sydney clubs that couldn't run a chook raffle?

Fortitude Valley Diehards have a history that dates back to 1909 and are the most successful club in Australia. Southern Suburbs Magpies date back to 1909 as well.

Redcliffe Dolphins and Eastern Suburbs Tigers are richer than most Sydney clubs, if not all of them.

Why should small and unpopular clubs like Manly and Cronulla have a spot in the NRL ahead of Redcliffe and Easts?

Redcliffe aren't allowed to use their identify in the NRL, but if anyone suggests Manly should rebrand to North Sydney so they can appeal to North Shore and Northern Beaches then Manly fans get upset. It's a massive double standard. Manly aren't strong enough to play in the national competition. They've been successful on the field yet they have few fans and aren't a draw on TV. If the NRL wants to grow then it needs to cut the dead weight.

Redcliffe are CHOOSING not to use their identity as a means to broaden their identity and fan base. Again, get your facts straight.

You keep taking cracks at Manly and yet conveniently forget we won premierships in 2008 and 2011, with consistent finals appearances before, during and after that period. 2007 and 2013 Grand final appearances as well (yes, we lost.)

Get your facts straight before posting any more tripe.

Or learn the definition between fact and opinion.

 

[Get Rid of AwFuL]

Redcliffe are CHOOSING not to use their identity as a means to broaden their identity and fan base. Again, get your facts straight.

You keep taking cracks at Manly and yet conveniently forget we won premierships in 2008 and 2011, with consistent finals appearances before, during and after that period. 2007 and 2013 Grand final appearances as well (yes, we lost.)

Get your facts straight before posting any more tripe.

Or learn the definition between fact and opinion.

Here's what Andrew Abdo said on the subject, courtesy of Fox Sports.

NRL chief executive Andrew Abdo also defended the decision which he indicated the governing body was involved in making.​

​

“It’s important for us that we have a say in this because this is about the growth of the game,” he said.​

​

“Historically it’s been a decision made by the club but for us it made sense for them to be the Dolphins because we’re talking here about not just the Brisbane area but north of Brisbane, we’re talking about Moreton Bay, the Sunshine Coast."​

​

‘Don’t want to alienate anyone’: NRL Dolphins explain name decision as debate rages

‘Don’t want to alienate anyone’: Dolphins explain name decision as debate rages

www.foxsports.com.au

​

​

Manly being successful on the field doesn't mean anything when they have one of the worst attendance records and consistently draw low TV ratings. The fact they draw low crowds and poor TV ratings despite having a winning team proves they're incapable of becoming a powerhouse club like the Broncos, Storm and Cowboys.

More facts to back me up about TV ratings.

Everything you ever wanted to know about NRL TV ratings but were afraid to ask

The overwhelming majority of fans get their NRL fix through the TV. An average round will attract 124,000 in the stands but 3.6 million, thirty times as many, will tune in via subscription (PTV) or…

pythagonrl.com

 

[RedV3x]

Redcliffe are CHOOSING not to use their identity as a means to broaden their identity and fan base.

It's a good move not to restrict appeal by using the Redcliffe name but Dolphins alone is insipid.
Think of North Melbourne when they used just the "Kangaroos".

 

[Get Rid of AwFuL]

It's a good move not to restrict appeal by using the Redcliffe name but Dolphins alone is insipid.
Think of North Melbourne when they used just the "Kangaroos".

Sydney's smallest clubs need to broaden their fanbase if they wish to survive. If they don't then the Cowboys, Broncos, Titans, Storm, Warriors, Dolphins and Raiders will leave them for dead over the next 30 years.

 

[RedV3x]

Sydney's smallest clubs need to broaden their fanbase if they wish to survive. If they don't then the Cowboys, Broncos, Titans, Storm, Warriors, Dolphins and Raiders will leave them for dead over the next 30 years.

There's this little thing called "on field success".
Raiders have gone into reverse.
No G.C. side has been a real success.
No N.Z. side has reached it's potential.
Dolphins will take time. Look at Fremantle in the AFL
Yes, it is all about market share and when you're in a basically city league then on field success is the best method to ensure survival.
Having a suburban name can hold you back but renaming to a larger audience definitely doesn't ensure immediate success.
Think of Footscray in the AFL - onfield success plus the Western Bullogs name has kept them competitive.
Having a "big" name is not a recipe for success.
Until recent onfield success, the Melbourne Demons were a lowly club and the "South Melbourne" name didn't save the Swans.
East Sydney has changed to Sydney City and with onfield success IMO that has been a reasonable success.
I disagree with people who say Manly is a small suburban name but IMO the Northern Eagles might be good insurance.
Bad naming can be a drag. WTF they didn't choose the Western Tigers over Wests Tigers is beyond me. sounds like a stutter.

 

[Get Rid of AwFuL]

There's this little thing called "on field success".
Raiders have gone into reverse.
No G.C. side has been a real success.
No N.Z. side has reached it's potential.
Dolphins will take time. Look at Fremantle in the AFL
Yes, it is all about market share and when you're in a basically city league then on field success is the best method to ensure survival.
Having a suburban name can hold you back but renaming to a larger audience definitely doesn't ensure immediate success.
Think of Footscray in the AFL - onfield success plus the Western Bullogs name has kept them competitive.
Having a "big" name is not a recipe for success.
Until recent onfield success, the Melbourne Demons were a lowly club and the "South Melbourne" name didn't save the Swans.
East Sydney has changed to Sydney City and with onfield success IMO that has been a reasonable success.
I disagree with people who say Manly is a small suburban name but IMO the Northern Eagles might be good insurance.
Bad naming can be a drag. WTF they didn't choose the Western Tigers over Wests Tigers is beyond me. sounds like a stutter.

The VFL and AFL didn't have billion dollar broadcast deals to bail out weaker clubs like South Melbourne and Footscray in the 80s and 90s.

The ARLC provides each club with an annual grant, set at 130% of the salary cap so that teams only have to earn about $10m a year to field a side. The bigger sides generate around $20m or more which can be spent on the football department to gain a strong advantage over the rest of the competition. News Ltd and ARLC spent almost $100m on the Storm to build them into a powerhouse between 1998 and 2018.

Manly operate on a shoestring budget due to their small fanbase and inability to attract strong sponsorship deals.

Western Tigers would be a good brand for a Perth-based team.

Raiders draw revenue from the Logan Rec Club and Toowoomba Sports Club they own in Queensland. They're one of the stronger clubs in the NRL.

 

[Exe Gesis]

Something being overlooked here is junior numbers, participation.
Manly is one of the biggest ones in NSW.

Not mentioning that just in terms of defending Manly here, but also in terms of NRL expansion. It's important to expand to regions that have a strong junior league, and participation numbers, especially if there's also a threat to AFL if that region is neglected.

While it would be a no-brainer to have a Perth, Adelaide, and NZx2 team....all those regions are struggling with numbers. The ARLC are to blame for allowing Perth to go to waste for 20 odd years when the Reds were in the league. 20+ years of continued support might've helped push those numbers up. But Perth has still failed with the Western Force, there was little to no growth.

Adelaide is even worse. And Melbourne has been in the league for 20+ years and is as bad as Adelaide still, no signs of improvement.

Regions like SEQ, Western Brisbane Corridor, Sunshine Coast, Central Qld....they are the booming regions with very strong junior leagues and participation numbers.

NRL expansion should really be Ipswich and Sunshine Coast (if The Dolphins aren't going to eventually relocate there), and then Central Qld.....before there's even a Perth, Adelaide and NZ-2.

I have often said flippant stuff like "make the Sharks relocate to Perth"....but Cronulla is also apparently a very strong region of junior leagues and participation numbers. Cronulla, Manly, Canterbury, Penrith, Parramatta, South Sydney, StGeorge....are all pretty strong.

On League Unlimited....the people there who know much better than I about RL in Australia, often tell me that a big rich club like Sydney Roosters is actually the weakest in terms of juniors/etc and should be the one that is forced to merge with Souths or relocated interstate. I just imagined the Roosters were strong, and teams like Cronulla and Canterbury were weaker....but apparently I was wrong.

 

[Aucklander]

On League Unlimited....the people there who know much better than I about RL in Australia, often tell me that a big rich club like Sydney Roosters is actually the weakest in terms of juniors/etc and should be the one that is forced to merge with Souths or relocated interstate. I just imagined the Roosters were strong, and teams like Cronulla and Canterbury were weaker....but apparently I was wrong.

Nick Politis. The only reason the Roosters will never be drawn into a relocation debate. They would be the 1st team I'd be sending to another state, Adelaide preferably.

You could also easily argue the Warriors have reached their potential on more than one occasion all while playing in a competition heavily stacked against them.

 

[RedV3x]

Manly operate on a shoestring budget due to their small fanbase and inability to attract strong sponsorship deals.

Yes, but that's not because the Manly catchment area is small.
The weaker Sydney NRL clubs have to find a way to better themselves as do the weaker AFL clubs in Melbourne.

Western Tigers would be a good brand for a Perth-based team.

Yes good idea for a name but that's all.
It's taken Fremantle a long time to build in a strong AFL state.
I suspect it might be the same for the Dolphins without onfield success.
Storm have been successful due to onfield success.