Discussion Rule of the Year 2020 - Holding the Ball

[Hubnester]

Its a pretty standard indictment of the AFL media that no one is willing to actual come out and say that the umpires are acting outside of the best interest of the game and are basically showing themselves as incompetent. Its all humming and harring about it all.

Well they aren't really allowed to criticise decisions directly, so I don't know how much more they can say.
Hopefully the AFL isn't tone deaf to the universal confusion though.

 

[AirWinmar]

Prior opportunity. If you can get rid of it but don't you're gone. it's a good thing too. Umpires make mistakes, they always do, but the new interpretation is spot on.

The new interpretation isn't allowing prior opportunity - players are getting pinged for holding the ball being tackled the second they take possession. Love footy, but absolutely hate what they are doing to the game with this rule change. Makes no sense and players are often just doing little dinky taps and toe pokes rather than taking possession often making it more scrappy. What's wrong with having a stoppage? It's a great part of the game.

 

[gringo2011]

The new interpretation isn't allowing prior opportunity - players are getting pinged for holding the ball being tackled the second they take possession. Love footy, but absolutely hate what they are doing to the game with this rule change. Makes no sense and players are often just doing little dinky taps and toe pokes rather than taking possession often making it more scrappy. What's wrong with having a stoppage? It's a great part of the game.

Yesterday there were times players were swung in a 360 degree arc holding the ball, didn't dispose straight away and got nothing then times where the guy picking up the ball immediately were called as they took possession. Others just drop the ball like they never had it and get holding the man free kicks. It's just a lottery now. Sometimes it will be a HTB, sometimes not, sometimes in the back, sometimes holding the man, sometimes incorrect disposal. I would hate to be trying to explain the rules to someone from overseas.

 

[AirWinmar]

Yesterday there were times players were swung in a 360 degree arc holding the ball, didn't dispose straight away and got nothing then times where the guy picking up the ball immediately were called as they took possession. Others just drop the ball like they never had it and get holding the man free kicks. It's just a lottery now. Sometimes it will be a HTB, sometimes not, sometimes in the back, sometimes holding the man, sometimes incorrect disposal. I would hate to be trying to explain the rules to someone from overseas.

Haha, yeah that would be definitely be difficult when you think of it like that or even explaining it to kids learning it

 

[plugger66]

I have to agree that we can’t have a go at umpires except in this thread and hundreds of others on all footy forums and Facebook sites as well as the media. I have no idea what people want to do. Sack umpires who make errors? Have every decision that is wrong made public? I hope people realise the more they are criticised the worse the umpiring will get. It certainly won’t improve. The best way out of it is to watch the game and not watch for umpiring errors which seems to be domes favourite sport. It’s a bit sad really. Can’t be a great way to enjoy the day

 

[AirWinmar]

I have to agree that we can’t have a go at umpires except in this thread and hundreds of others on all footy forums and Facebook sites as well as the media. I have no idea what people want to do. Sack umpires who make errors? Have every decision that is wrong made public? I hope people realise the more they are criticised the worse the umpiring will get. It certainly won’t improve. The best way out of it is to watch the game and not watch for umpiring errors which seems to be domes favourite sport. It’s a bit sad really. Can’t be a great way to enjoy the day

With the new interpretation of holding the ball no one should be getting upset at the actual umpires officiating - they are just doing what their bosses are telling them to do. I'm pissed that the afl is stuffing around with the rule

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

Yesterday there were times players were swung in a 360 degree arc holding the ball, didn't dispose straight away and got nothing then times where the guy picking up the ball immediately were called as they took possession. Others just drop the ball like they never had it and get holding the man free kicks. It's just a lottery now. Sometimes it will be a HTB, sometimes not, sometimes in the back, sometimes holding the man, sometimes incorrect disposal. I would hate to be trying to explain the rules to someone from overseas.

the issue also is it depends on what colour jumper the player is wearing as to if they are determined to have had prior opportunity ... we cant complain too much as i have felt we have for the first time in as long as i remember been on the possitive side of the interpretation of the rule but i can certainly see the frustration of it ...

it does look though as if the umpires are rewarding the teams that keep the ball moving more than the teams who want to hold it up so maybe thats why we have been getting looked after a little better

 

[PostmanBish]

I have to agree that we can’t have a go at umpires except in this thread and hundreds of others on all footy forums and Facebook sites as well as the media. I have no idea what people want to do. Sack umpires who make errors? Have every decision that is wrong made public? I hope people realise the more they are criticised the worse the umpiring will get. It certainly won’t improve. The best way out of it is to watch the game and not watch for umpiring errors which seems to be domes favourite sport. It’s a bit sad really. Can’t be a great way to enjoy the day

All I look for from the umpires, broadly, is consistency - the one thing which gives me the $hitz is to see it called one way at one end, then immediately called entirely differently down the other. I don't actually care if the interpretation is overly tight, overly loose, or plain wrong ... as long as it is consistent for every player on the ground.

Frankly, the better games tend to be where they largely put the whistle away, and only call the really blatant stuff which needs to be called. We don't need it to become like Rugby Union where the referee spends half the game explaining his interpretation of the nuance of the dot point in the rule book.

Edit: I should add, I think we've had a fair go in the 50/50s so far in 2020, and I hope it continues - mostly our games run at a good pace, and encourage the umpires to let it flow, most of the time.

 

[plugger66]

All I look for from the umpires, broadly, is consistency - the one thing which gives me the $hitz is to see it called one way at one end, then immediately called entirely differently down the other. I don't actually care if the interpretation is overly tight, overly loose, or plain wrong ... as long as it is consistent for every player on the ground.

Frankly, the better games tend to be where they largely put the whistle away, and only call the really blatant stuff which needs to be called. We don't need it to become like Rugby Union where the referee spends half the game explaining his interpretation of the nuance of the dot point in the rule book.

Edit: I should add, I think we've had a fair go in the 50/50s so far in 2020, and I hope it continues - mostly our games run at a good pace, and encourage the umpires to let it flow, most of the time.

Wayne Campbell said on sen if you want consistency follow a different sport. He was in charge of umps and said it impossible on the interpretation frees because what holding the ball to one is a ball up to another. And I agree. You can train and explain rules all you like but in a split second they have to make a decision. And apparently there are around 400 decisions that have to be made every game.

 

[plugger66]

With the new interpretation of holding the ball no one should be getting upset at the actual umpires officiating - they are just doing what their bosses are telling them to do. I'm pissed that the afl is stuffing around with the rule

Think the footy has looked better since the change even if it’s tougher for the umps.

 

[jwikked]

Wayne Campbell said on sen if you want consistency follow a different sport. He was in charge of umps and said it impossible on the interpretation frees because what holding the ball to one is a ball up to another. And I agree. You can train and explain rules all you like but in a split second they have to make a decision. And apparently there are around 400 decisions that have to be made every game.

That's where they need to let it be play on. If you see something that can be interpreted differently, it shouldn't be a free kick. Pay the obvious free kicks and let the 50/50s go. Simple as.

 

[plugger66]

That's where they need to let it be play on. If you see something that can be interpreted differently, it shouldn't be a free kick. Pay the obvious free kicks and let the 50/50s go. Simple as.

Then we have packs all day and whinge about that.

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

I've seen the rule book. Holding the ball is rather simple

17.6 HOLDING THE BALL

17.6.1 Spirit and Intention

The Player who has Possession of the Football will be provided an opportunity to dispose of the football before rewarding an opponent for a Legal Tackle.

17.6.2 Free Kicks - Holding the Ball: Prior Opportunity

(a) Where a Player in Possession of the Football has had Prior Opportunity, a Free Kick shall be awarded if that Player does not Correctly Dispose of the football immediately when they are Legally Tackled.

(b) Where a Player in Possession of the Football has had Prior Opportunity but is on the Protected Players List a Free kick shall not be awared and the Umpire shall throw the ball up.

(c) Where a Player in Possession of the Football has not had Prior Opportunity, the field Umpire shall throw up the football when a Player, in the act of applying a Legal Tackle, holds the football to the body of the Player being tackled or the football is otherwise pinned to the ground.

(d) Where the Player in Possession of the football has not had Prior Opportunity but the umpire had a desert as part of his lunch or dinner and the player applying something akin to a Legal Tackle a Free Kick shall be awarded

(e) Where the Player in Possession of the football has not had Prior Opportunity and Mercury is in renegade a Free Kick shall be awared.

(f) Where the Player in Possession of the football has not had Prior Opportunity and the price of a mid strength beer at the ground the match is being played at is under 10 Australian Dollars and not greater than 11 Australian Dollars a Free Kick shall be paid

(g) Where the Player in Possession of the football has not had Prior Opportunity and a pope has not been elected in the last 5 years a Free Kick shall be awarded.

(h) Where the Player in Possession of the football has not had Prior Opportunity and Alistair Clarkson has complained about the umpiring during that round of football a Free Kick shall be awarded.


Prior opportunity for the avoidance of doubt is defined at 5 seconds divided by the amount of Weet Bix Umpire Ray Chamberlin had during the morning of that game.

17.6.3 Free Kicks - Holding the Ball: Incorrect Disposal
Where a Player in Possession of the Football has not had Prior Opportunity, a Free Kick shall be awarded if that Player elects to Incorrectly Dispose of the football when Legally Tackled.
For the avoidance of doubt, a Player does not elect to Incorrectly Dispose of the football when:
(a) the Player genuinely attempts to Correctly Dispose of the football;
(b) the Legal Tackle causes the football to be dislodged from the Player’s possession.



17.6.4 Free Kicks - Holding the Ball: No Genuine Attempt
Where a Player is in Possession of the Football and is able but does not genuinely attempt to Correctly Dispose of the football when Legally Tackled, a Free Kick shall be awarded.


17.6.5 Free Kicks - Holding the Ball: Diving on Top of the Football
A Free Kick shall be awarded against a Player who dives on top of or drags the football underneath their body and fails to immediately knock clear or Correctly Dispose of the football when Legally Tackled.
Points will be awarded for style of dive and the lack of damage done to the surface.
17.6 HOLDING THE BALL

17.6.1 Spirit and Intention

The Player who has Possession of the Football will be provided an opportunity to dispose of the football before rewarding an opponent for a Legal Tackle.

17.6.2 Free Kicks - Holding the Ball: Prior Opportunity

(a) Where a Player in Possession of the Football has had Prior Opportunity, a Free Kick shall be awarded if that Player does not Correctly Dispose of the football immediately when they are Legally Tackled.

(b) Where a Player in Possession of the Football has had Prior Opportunity but is on the Protected Players List a Free kick shall not be awared and the Umpire shall throw the ball up.

(c) Where a Player in Possession of the Football has not had Prior Opportunity, the field Umpire shall throw up the football when a Player, in the act of applying a Legal Tackle, holds the football to the body of the Player being tackled or the football is otherwise pinned to the ground.

(d) Where the Player in Possession of the football has not had Prior Opportunity but the umpire had a desert as part of his lunch or dinner and the player applying something akin to a Legal Tackle a Free Kick shall be awarded

(e) Where the Player in Possession of the football has not had Prior Opportunity and Mercury is in renegade a Free Kick shall be awared.

(f) Where the Player in Possession of the football has not had Prior Opportunity and the price of a mid strength beer at the ground the match is being played at is under 10 Australian Dollars and not greater than 11 Australian Dollars a Free Kick shall be paid

(g) Where the Player in Possession of the football has not had Prior Opportunity and a pope has not been elected in the last 5 years a Free Kick shall be awarded.

(h) Where the Player in Possession of the football has not had Prior Opportunity and Alistair Clarkson has complained about the umpiring during that round of football a Free Kick shall be awarded.


Prior opportunity for the avoidance of doubt is defined at 5 seconds divided by the amount of Weet Bix Umpire Ray Chamberlin had during the morning of that game.

17.6.3 Free Kicks - Holding the Ball: Incorrect Disposal
Where a Player in Possession of the Football has not had Prior Opportunity, a Free Kick shall be awarded if that Player elects to Incorrectly Dispose of the football when Legally Tackled.
For the avoidance of doubt, a Player does not elect to Incorrectly Dispose of the football when:
(a) the Player genuinely attempts to Correctly Dispose of the football;
(b) the Legal Tackle causes the football to be dislodged from the Player’s possession.



17.6.4 Free Kicks - Holding the Ball: No Genuine Attempt
Where a Player is in Possession of the Football and is able but does not genuinely attempt to Correctly Dispose of the football when Legally Tackled, a Free Kick shall be awarded.


17.6.5 Free Kicks - Holding the Ball: Diving on Top of the Football
A Free Kick shall be awarded against a Player who dives on top of or drags the football underneath their body and fails to immediately knock clear or Correctly Dispose of the football when Legally Tackled.
Points will be awarded for style of dive and the lack of damage done to the surface.

 

[gringo2011]

Think the footy has looked better since the change even if it’s tougher for the umps.

But most fans you listen to it hate it and it's made the umpiring less consistent and frustrates the people who follow the sport. It's the stuff fans hate about the AFL, an arrogant pushing of new laws that don't actually do what it's designed to do and adds nothing but a level of complexity that is harder for umpires.

They want to speed the game up go last touch out of bounds or something, not punish the ball winner. Don't use the AFL comp as an experiment either. Try things at lower levels and see how it goes then talk to clubs and fans to see if they think it works.

Now they want less players as well. They might as well just turn it into a another sport. If they like soccer and basketball they should go and administrate those instead.

 

[gringo2011]

Then we have packs all day and whinge about that.

Having sides playing attacking footy like Richmond, Brisbane and GC etc will do more than new rules. The coaches are the only ones that can change anything and winning games of footy through attack seem to be turning it back naturally. It's like safety barriers are stopping highway death rates and the government then puts a 40km speed limit on the highways because it used to be a problem 2 years ago.

 

[plugger66]

But most fans you listen to it hate it and it's made the umpiring less consistent and frustrates the people who follow the sport. It's the stuff fans hate about the AFL, an arrogant pushing of new laws that don't actually do what it's designed to do and adds nothing but a level of complexity that is harder for umpires.

They want to speed the game up go last touch out of bounds or something, not punish the ball winner. Don't use the AFL comp as an experiment either. Try things at lower levels and see how it goes then talk to clubs and fans to see if they think it works.

Now they want less players as well. They might as well just turn it into a another sport. If they like soccer and basketball they should go and administrate those instead.

Most people who waste their time on social media are the whingers and who cares if they hate it anyway if the footy is better. And again who cares if people hate that stuff about the afl. People continue to watch because it’s the greatest game in the world. The stupid thing is they try these things to actually make the game better. Some weirdly think they do it to make it worse. Makes as much sense as voting for Donald trump.

 

[plugger66]

Having sides playing attacking footy like Richmond, Brisbane and GC etc will do more than new rules. The coaches are the only ones that can change anything and winning games of footy through attack seem to be turning it back naturally. It's like safety barriers are stopping highway death rates and the government then puts a 40km speed limit on the highways because it used to be a problem 2 years ago.

I think every single person knows that. Certainly the afl do. And the solution is what? Sit on your arse and wait for something that will most likely never happen or at least try and change things up. Will say it again. There has been less whinging about the footy in the last 5 weeks than the first 5 weeks.

 

[gringo2011]

Most people who waste their time on social media are the whingers and who cares if they hate it anyway if the footy is better. And again who cares if people hate that stuff about the afl. People continue to watch because it’s the greatest game in the world. The stupid thing is they try these things to actually make the game better. Some weirdly think they do it to make it worse. Makes as much sense as voting for Donald trump.

How is it better though, fans hate it and what has it achieved?

Greatest game in the world but needs constant changes? Hmmmmm something about that doesn't sound right. No other sport in the world changes their rules and systems more than the AFL. A few rules have made the game better but most people that want rule changes actually say they want it to be like it was in the past. Does something about that sound a little ridiculous to you?

Most of the time the new rules are reactive depending on the weekends games or a comment from coaches or media perception etc. Half the time they are already working it out in the coaches box but the AFL step in like they are going to make something more simple by adding a level of complexity to it.

 

[gringo2011]

I think every single person knows that. Certainly the afl do. And the solution is what? Sit on your arse and wait for something that will most likely never happen or at least try and change things up. Will say it again. There has been less whinging about the footy in the last 5 weeks than the first 5 weeks.

Do you actually read anything online about what the fans think, do you listen to the call back? People are watching more games in ISO and umpire's inconsistency is copping an absolute pasting.

 

[plugger66]

How is it better though, fans hate it and what has it achieved?

Greatest game in the world but needs constant changes? Hmmmmm something about that doesn't sound right. No other sport in the world changes their rules and systems more than the AFL. A few rules have made the game better but most people that want rule changes actually say they want it to be like it was in the past. Does something about that sound a little ridiculous to you?

Most of the time the new rules are reactive depending on the weekends games or a comment from coaches or media perception etc. Half the time they are already working it out in the coaches box but the AFL step in like they are going to make something more simple by adding a level of complexity to it.

Well as I’ve said I think the game has been better in the past 5 weeks than the first 5. That’s a big achievement. I’ve decided this because there are less whingers on the radio than there were early in the season. I also think whilst many media have complained about the rule they are also complaining less about the game. Coincidence or has it actually helped form less packs. I think the second option based on watching nearly every game this year.

and every sport has constant changes. We didn’t even change the rule on hold the ball even though some people who actually don’t understand the rule in the first place think we did. What’s wrong with constant changes anyway. Local sports in every country have constant changes. Look at the nrl after the break. They actually had a rule change we didn’t.

 

[plugger66]

Do you actually read anything online about what the fans think, do you listen to the call back? People are watching more games in ISO and umpire's inconsistency is copping an absolute pasting.

Thanks for your advise and what they should do. As usual you go off on another tangent I said whinging about the footy meaning the game because that is what is important not whinging about a change in interpretation which most people probably don’t understand anyway.

 

[AFLOnline]

I've seen the rule book. Holding the ball is rather simple

Lol wtf

Did you really go to that effort to read and edit that all yourself?

 

[gringo2011]

Well as I’ve said I think the game has been better in the past 5 weeks than the first 5. That’s a big achievement. I’ve decided this because there are less whingers on the radio than there were early in the season. I also think whilst many media have complained about the rule they are also complaining less about the game. Coincidence or has it actually helped form less packs. I think the second option based on watching nearly every game this year.

and every sport has constant changes. We didn’t even change the rule on hold the ball even though some people who actually don’t understand the rule in the first place think we did. What’s wrong with constant changes anyway. Local sports in every country have constant changes. Look at the nrl after the break. They actually had a rule change we didn’t.

It's like people would stop complaining about their leaking roof if you set their car on fire though. Not complaining about the game is because everyone is distracted by the huge pile of turd the AFL as thrown with their rule interpretations. Also think people are starting to appreciate the distraction the footy is giving us in a s**t box year. At first everyone bagged the empty stadiums, canned crowd noise, short quarters, now people are just happy to have anything. In a famine, kids stop whinging about the taste of broccoli.

 

[plugger66]

It's like people would stop complaining about their leaking roof if you set their car on fire though. Not complaining about the game is because everyone is distracted by the huge pile of turd the AFL as thrown with their rule interpretations. Also think people are starting to appreciate the distraction the footy is giving us in a sh*t box year. At first everyone bagged the empty stadiums, canned crowd noise, short quarters, now people are just happy to have anything. In a famine, kids stop whinging about the taste of broccoli.

No they don’t in radio. They like many here will whinge about anything footy whenever it is. The whinging is now on the rule but no where near as much about the game. Some of those whinging probably most think it’s a new rule. They don’t even understand the rule. There have been many mistakes with the interpretation since they changed but I’d rather that and a better game than no change and a worse game. The games seems better to me and from the radio better for other people as well.

 

[gringo2011]

No they don’t in radio. They like many here will whinge about anything footy whenever it is. The whinging is now on the rule but no where near as much about the game. Some of those whinging probably most think it’s a new rule. They don’t even understand the rule. There have been many mistakes with the interpretation since they changed but I’d rather that and a better game than no change and a worse game. The games seems better to me and from the radio better for other people as well.

How has it changed the game? I'd say teams taking the game on through attacking the corridor and quick ball movement have done more for the game. The shorter quarters also means you get a much more dynamic game because fatigue never gets out of hand. The holding the ball interpretation just adds a lottery effect to free kicks. It's just chaos ball. No better than throwing a grenade randomly on to the field.