Rumour File #6

[KennyHunter9]

Backline of Hendo, Jamo (talls), Bower, Laidler, Duigan (mids/third tall), Yarran, Russell, Joseph (mids/smalls) would be a very good mix. Some good aerial power, plus some serious rebounding.
I know that's eight (not six) but:
+1 for bench rotations
+1 for injuries

 

[gbatman]

Might not be enough.

I'm getting the "Hartlett" vibe about Emu.

We should make our plans without him in them and anything he offers us, via performance or trade is a bonus.

At his fittest and best form, absolutely in our best 22, but I lack any confidence in his body now.

Yeah I see where you are coming from. I see this as a similar situation to Walker and Jamison. We all (all of us who pay attention and know a bit about footy) knew that they were going to be really good players when fit. It was just a matter of patience and making the right moves to get them right. I know Bower is a little bit of a different situation being soft tissue injuries. I think players usually get over them but so often players are pushed too hard to come back and play at their best after these sort of injuries and this makes it seem like they have a chronic problem that they can't get over. I think things like torn hamstrings and in Bower's case quads are a thing that players feel they are over and fully heald from when they are not. Guys like Hartlett was always rushed back as he was always playing for a spot in the team and his career. Matthew Richardson is another example of a player who was finished by hamstrings and was always forced to return and play a major role as soon as he felt fine.

I get the feeling that Carlton have tried to rush Bower back into the team and always had him playing a major role. That was in 2010. In 2011 I think he was rushed back a bit early at times too. I think what we are doing is helping him get back to playing and training with out rushing him into seniors or making him do real hard work so that he fully heals and strenthens his legs and that we are absolutly %100 he is over his injuries so that he can have a big pre season. I think the club has taken a far more cautious approach to managing injuries off the field and not over doing a players work load on return.

Backline of Hendo, Jamo (talls), Bower, Laidler, Duigan (mids/third tall), Yarran, Russell, Joseph (mids/smalls) would be a very good mix. Some good aerial power, plus some serious rebounding.
I know that's eight (not six) but:
+1 for bench rotations
+1 for injuries

This is right. Tall backlines that can run and defend win premierships. Jamison, Bower, Henderson, Duigan, Russell, Yarran and Laidler would be an ideal scenario in defence. The idea is that you have a midfield that puts on pressure, doesn't get beaten in the center square and forces the opposition to go long to their forwards. The idea of having tall flankers and pockets like Bower, Thornton, Laidler and Duigan to an extent is so that these guys are not only taller than their opponants but are able to assist the key position players in the air by spoiling, marking and getting in the space of the key position forwards without being little step ladders.

 

[Blue and Silver]

See the thing with Bower is, if you replace his name with Watson or McCarthy's, at this point I am not that worried about our future performance. Both have good attacking flair out of the back half, not to mention both have bigger physical builds than Paul and Watson has a kick that could split the stratosphere

 

[BlueGibbs2011]

See the thing with Bower is, if you replace his name with Watson or McCarthy's, at this point I am not that worried about our future performance. Both have good attacking flair out of the back half, not to mention both have bigger physical builds than Paul and Watson has a kick that could split the stratosphere

Neither of those young guys will have a huge impact next year unless we win the lottery and they outperform normal development. Yes, they can fill in, and make small impacts but you wouldnt think in their second year they'd be reliable in the pressure cooker of a final.

On the other hand, if Bower gets his body right and finds form, we know he can add huge value in a 2012 finals campaign.

Watson ansd Macarthy should be fine in their third and 4th years respectively.

Roll the dice with Bower one more time! We did it year in year out with Walker and now are reaping the rewards!

The other poitns is we cant seriously give away KPP players due to a serious lack of ready to go KPP depth.

 

[BlueTouchPaper]

See the thing with Bower is, if you replace his name with Watson or McCarthy's, at this point I am not that worried about our future performance. Both have good attacking flair out of the back half, not to mention both have bigger physical builds than Paul and Watson has a kick that could split the stratosphere

Put the hole in the ozone when he was about 6 years old.

 

[Teagueeee15]

Put yourself in Paul Bower's shoes and tell me why he would want to sign a new contract at Carlton? He's been playing well in the VFL and has deserved promotion to the seniors ahead of certain other players and has been overlooked for reasons that I can't fathom.

For example

Davies had been doing a good stopping job on small forwards, but hadn't offered a rebounding option and looked a deer in headlights when he had the ball. End result: Promoted to the seniors ahead of Bower.

Russel hadn't been rebounding as we've seen him do over the past two seasons in the seniors, he was getting bags of 3-4 kicked on him by VFL forwards and was stuffing up kick-ins. End result: Promoted to the seniors ahead of Bower.

White had missed 5-6 weeks with a medial ligament strain and first up in the bullants he has an average game, takes himself to the bench in the last quarter looking out of it huffing and puffing. End Result: Promoted to the seniors ahead of Bower and tears his Calf first game back against Richmond.

Make no mistake Bower will know that players who haven't warranted selection ahead of him have been making the seniors. Bower will be evaluating his options and unfortunately we will be trading him when his value is at its lowest ebb.

 

[BlueGibbs2011]

I dont think it is that at all.

I think the MC just want Bower to play consecutive games and prove he can stay on the park. No point to keep bringing him in and then losing him which has been the case. A bit like Brock. Better to blood Davies/tuohy whose bodies are currently standing up to AFL level footy.

I think the message is...play ten games in a row and then we'll talk. I'm sure the players themselves are on board with this as well.

That would more than explain why others have been selected in recent times and would make total sense. Team continuity is very important.

 

[HARKER]

Put yourself in Paul Bower's shoes and tell me why he would want to sign a new contract at Carlton? He's been playing well in the VFL and has deserved promotion to the seniors ahead of certain other players and has been overlooked for reasons that I can't fathom.

In a nutshell Teagueeee.

We all know that there may well be circumstances beyond the obvious but on face value I cannot understand why he wasn't put into our side some weeks back.
You could put forth a similar case for O'hAilpin if you wish.

That's not to say that either are world beaters, but considering the obvious issues we have had and to hold them back, suggests there is something smells rotten in Denmark.

 

[The_Wookie]

Put yourself in Paul Bower's shoes and tell me why he would want to sign a new contract at Carlton? He's been playing well in the VFL and has deserved promotion to the seniors ahead of certain other players and has been overlooked for reasons that I can't fathom.

For example

Davies had been doing a good stopping job on small forwards, but hadn't offered a rebounding option and looked a deer in headlights when he had the ball. End result: Promoted to the seniors ahead of Bower.

Russel hadn't been rebounding as we've seen him do over the past two seasons in the seniors, he was getting bags of 3-4 kicked on him by VFL forwards and was stuffing up kick-ins. End result: Promoted to the seniors ahead of Bower.

White had missed 5-6 weeks with a medial ligament strain and first up in the bullants he has an average game, takes himself to the bench in the last quarter looking out of it huffing and puffing. End Result: Promoted to the seniors ahead of Bower and tears his Calf first game back against Richmond.

Make no mistake Bower will know that players who haven't warranted selection ahead of him have been making the seniors. Bower will be evaluating his options and unfortunately we will be trading him when his value is at its lowest ebb.

Russell was consistently named in the ants best for weeks, White was named in the Ants best. Bower was less than impressive when he was called up AND he was shocking at the end of last season. Bowers main problem though is that Henderson was able to do the job in Jamison absence, and duigan and laidler having stellar seasons playing taller than they are. Davies has done a lot of good things when he was promoted, he's quick and he generally has done the job he's been out there for. Touhy has been excellent, Joseph has been in for his tagging - a role he is almost uniquely suited for at carlton.

 

[mac25]

Put yourself in Paul Bower's shoes and tell me why he would want to sign a new contract at Carlton? He's been playing well in the VFL and has deserved promotion to the seniors ahead of certain other players and has been overlooked for reasons that I can't fathom.

For example

Davies had been doing a good stopping job on small forwards, but hadn't offered a rebounding option and looked a deer in headlights when he had the ball. End result: Promoted to the seniors ahead of Bower.

Russel hadn't been rebounding as we've seen him do over the past two seasons in the seniors, he was getting bags of 3-4 kicked on him by VFL forwards and was stuffing up kick-ins. End result: Promoted to the seniors ahead of Bower.

White had missed 5-6 weeks with a medial ligament strain and first up in the bullants he has an average game, takes himself to the bench in the last quarter looking out of it huffing and puffing. End Result: Promoted to the seniors ahead of Bower and tears his Calf first game back against Richmond.

Make no mistake Bower will know that players who haven't warranted selection ahead of him have been making the seniors. Bower will be evaluating his options and unfortunately we will be trading him when his value is at its lowest ebb.

Agree with you fairly certain Bower will head to either Fremantle or West Coast at year end, hopefully we can strike a deal that will give us a reasonable outcome, do not buy some of the comments re playing consecutive games, he has been with the Bullants fairly much the 2nd half of the season, something is not right and whilst he is uncontracted at year end, he can walk.

 

[Teagueeee15]

I dont think it is that at all.

I think the MC just want Bower to play consecutive games and prove he can stay on the park. No point to keep bringing him in and then losing him which has been the case. A bit like Brock. Better to blood Davies/tuohy whose bodies are currently standing up to AFL level footy.

I think the message is...play ten games in a row and then we'll talk. I'm sure the players themselves are on board with this as well.

That would more than explain why others have been selected in recent times and would make total sense. Team continuity is very important.

I'm not really a believer of the Bower needs match fitness theory. If he was left in the VFL for 2-3 matches then that may be the case, but he's played 13 matches for the Ants this season and has played well in those matches.

If the match commitee weren't playing him due to the probability of him breaking down and us losing him again for a period of time then Jamieson wouldn't play for Carlton ever again. There has to be more behind his dropping, besides if the match commitee are hell bent on making him get match fit then why rush back White ahead of him?

In a nutshell Teagueeee.

We all know that there may well be circumstances beyond the obvious but on face value I cannot understand why he wasn't put into our side some weeks back.
You could put forth a similar case for O'hAilpin if you wish.

That's not to say that either are world beaters, but considering the obvious issues we have had and to hold them back, suggests there is something smells rotten in Denmark.

Exactly and I fear that we are going to lose a best 22 player at the end of the season because the match commitee selection policy will leave Bower disillusioned and he will seek a trade like Grigg did (leaving us with little bargaining power)

 

[rp84]

I usually don't bet but I'll put my entire bank account on this guy getting carded

I see what is happening here. He has nothing to write about for the next few months, as the lions are a terrible team, and nearly finished last in one of the weakest pools of bottom 8 teams in history.

His card won't mean anything as offseason is approaching. He, and his IP address should be banned.

 

[Teagueeee15]

Russell was consistently named in the ants best for weeks, White was named in the Ants best. Bower was less than impressive when he was called up AND he was shocking at the end of last season. Bowers main problem though is that Henderson was able to do the job in Jamison absence, and duigan and laidler having stellar seasons playing taller than they are. Davies has done a lot of good things when he was promoted, he's quick and he generally has done the job he's been out there for. Touhy has been excellent, Joseph has been in for his tagging - a role he is almost uniquely suited for at carlton.

I watch the Bullants regularly and as I posted in the Bullants thread, Russel being listed in the best has been questionable. His performances are well down on what he's capable off. RE: White, my post was about his promotion to the seniors for the Richmond game, a game where he clearly wasn't fit and a game where he tore his calf muscle. White's recent form at the Bullants has been good.

I agree that Henderson, Laidler, Davies, Tuohy and Duigan have done a good job for the seniors, but my contention from a earlier post was that if the match commitee are going to promote players from the VFL based on performances, then Bower should have been promoted before White, Davies and Russel.

 

[The_Wookie]

I watch the Bullants regularly and as I posted in the Bullants thread, Russel being listed in the best has been questionable. His performances are well down on what he's capable off. RE: White, my post was about his promotion to the seniors for the Richmond game, a game where he clearly wasn't fit and a game where he tore his calf muscle. White's recent form at the Bullants has been good.

I agree that Henderson, Laidler, Davies, Tuohy and Duigan have done a good job for the seniors, but my contention from a earlier post was that if the match commitee are going to promote players from the VFL based on performances, then Bower should have been promoted before White, Davies and Russel.

And when you throw Yarran into that, then where does Bower play? Even with Jamison out the defensive slots were full. Which leads me to believe he cant get a game because he isnt fast enough in the eyes of the match committee or versatile enough to get a game as a swingman - as both henderson and thornton have done.

 

[blue healer]

The situation with Bower this year has eerie similarities to that of Thornton last year, even down to it being Davies keeping him out.

I thought we needed Thornton last year and it didn't happen. Many think (and I don't know as I see no Bullants matches) that Bowers' form warrants a return.
I found it surprising that, after losing Jammo last week, we went into a game against St Kilda with 4 players over 190cms.

Really leads me to think that if Bower couldn't get a game then he is highly unlikely to in the finals.

Think the main difference between he and the Thornton of last year is that, unlike Thornton, he is out of contract and in the likely case that he walks we have no bargaining power and he will attract more interest than T Bird so will be pleasantly surprised if we still have him next year

 

[Wickzki]

The Bower situation has to do with the reason why he took that mysterious trip home earlier in the season. All will come out in the wash.

 

[PooMonkey]

Freo Heave HO!

 

[gbatman]

Bower's not getting a game because he hasn't strung games together and hasn't proven he wont break down during games. Doesn't matter he is playing VFL really.

We let one good player go last year (Jacobs) without giving a yelp. Turns out he would have been easily our best ruckman this year.

If we let Bower go without giving a yelp and getting nothing like we did with Jacobs then we have done poorly.

 

[Beloved]

Bower's not getting a game because he hasn't strung games together and hasn't proven he wont break down during games. Doesn't matter he is playing VFL really.

We let one good player go last year (Jacobs) without giving a yelp. Turns out he would have been easily our best ruckman this year.

If we let Bower go without giving a yelp and getting nothing like we did with Jacobs then we have done poorly.

We had no say in the matter.

 

[blue healer]

We had no say in the matter.

May not have any more with Bower either.

 

[Beloved]

Joel Tippett, anyone? 197cm but stick skinny. Will go for peanuts.

 

[HARKER]

We had no say in the matter.

We had a say, but the writing was on the wall for one of our ruck men.
My best understanding is that Jacobs put his head on the chopping block and offered up to go home.
We did the right thing by Jacobs, his career and also the CFC.
Whichever way we went with our ruck men there was always going to be a return slap.

All said and done, we did the right thing by all parties.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Bower's not getting a game because he hasn't strung games together and hasn't proven he wont break down during games. Doesn't matter he is playing VFL really.

We let one good player go last year (Jacobs) without giving a yelp. Turns out he would have been easily our best ruckman this year.

If we let Bower go without giving a yelp and getting nothing like we did with Jacobs then we have done poorly.

That's hindsight thinking re Jacobs. He had a few good games just like Warnock. We could not guarantee any of our ruckman, but Kreuzer, a walk up start to our 22. As good as Jacobs was here and there last season, he was also the least mobile of our ruckman, so was looking like a horses for courses selection. We wanted to keep all four but would have had to have offloaded one of the others against their will and offer a heap more money to keep Sauce from returning to SA. He's a SA boy and he was out of contract. We weren't going to get rid of Hampson say, and then have Jacobs still want to return home in the not too distant future.

As others have pointed out with Bower. WA boy, value lower due to injuries and non-selection, out of contract. Again, we are in no position to drive any trade.

These things happen in football and we have benefitted from that in the past. We need to not look for ways to blame the club for things they have little control over.

 

[a_shot_on_ehlo]

The Bower situation has to do with the reason why he took that mysterious trip home earlier in the season. All will come out in the wash.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/122787/default.aspx

The coach said no Fremantle players had come to the club requesting trades, but opposition players had expressed interest in moving to the port club though their management.

"Particularly guys from WA in and around those eastern states clubs, sometimes they want to come home for different reasons," he said.

"Some players want to come to Fremantle for other reasons. It'll all come out leading into trade week.

"We'll certainly consider the approach."

Just combining some evidence, think emu may be half out the door, at least we can play fairly hard ball in that if they don't trade fairly he will end up at GWS

 

[Beloved]

We had a say, but the writing was on the wall for one of our ruck men.
My best understanding is that Jacobs put his head on the chopping block and offered up to go home.
We did the right thing by Jacobs, his career and also the CFC.
Whichever way we went with our ruck men there was always going to be a return slap.

All said and done, we did the right thing by all parties.

The story at the time was that Jacobs was really homesick and wanted to be with his family. He traveled home to Adelaide regularly when he was with us and I guess it was just easier for him.

From memory, he was going either way.