Rumour Rumour File

[son of dominator]

Kreuzer - Ottens type ruckman. He will be a ruckman who can float forward.

Carlos - short term answer.

Hampson - highly speculative.

White/Austin - defenders

Casboult - pinning hopes on a rookie?

Hendo will be a star. But we need genuine, natural goal kickers. Eddie and Garlett are, but we need a tall option.

All fair points

I do however see White/Austin being used as forward options as well as playing in defense. Probably not full time forwards though

At the start of the year there were numerous posters talking up Hampson as having a huge breakout year and he was going to rival Tippet this year. Now he is being talked about as being purely a speculative prospect as either forward or ruck and not to pin our hopes on him. Funny how things change over the course of one season

 

[Malifice]

Mal,

don't you think that with Henderson and Carlos, Kruezer and/or Hampson playing forward, the development of Casboult and the possibility of playing White and/or Austin forward means we have the KPF posy covered for the long term future

Short answer - No.

Long answer:

Henderson - Keeper. I rate.

As for the rest:

Carlos is 28 and cant get a spot in a forward line with an average age of 21, Kruezer and Hampson are Ruck's who might (should) be playing all over the ground and not as a permanent marking forward, Casboult is a rookie.

Nothing in that lot that screams 'quality KPP capable of kicking 60+ a year'

 

[Silvagnis]

Malifice, respect, reasonable, realistic and rational.

LOL.

More like deluded, fanatical and obsessive with his poor trades and desire to offload Gibbs for any forward who is taller than 191 cms.

Wants to trade Gibbs for Gumbleton, yet that trade would never get off the ground in a millions years.

Gumbleton is a poor kick.

Walker is still a baby, and he's already better than Hurley.

Hurley is great, that I'm not disputing, but anybody who has seen both of them play a lot wouldn't argue that one is vastly better than the other - yet.

Hurley is already better than Walker who is a third year tall.

Hurley has dominated against men at both ends of the ground in his second year, yet had an interrupted pre-season and 2010 due to injury and his court case. If you can't see that Hurley has a high ceiling, then I guess you're only talking to Crows fans about the best young players in the AFL. Hurley is one of the best kicks with both feet in the AFL, yet he's a big man and not a mid.

Better than Walker.

 

[HARKER]

All fair points

I do however see White/Austin being used as forward options as well as playing in defense. Probably not full time forwards though

At the start of the year there were numerous posters talking up Hampson as having a huge breakout year and he was going to rival Tippet this year. Now he is being talked about as being purely a speculative prospect as either forward or ruck and not to pin our hopes on him. Funny how things change over the course of one season

That's true and I was party to that, to a point.
He did everything right, except for his marking which looked suspect at best.
Fortunately it is looking much better of late as he is taking the odd pack mark, but Hampson the goal-kicker?
I just can't quite see it just yet.

Getting a little off-topic here. Sorry guys and gals.

 

[No1Suspect]

Hurley over Walker anyday of the week! He is a utility, on that alone makes him easily better than Walker!

 

[HARKER]

LOL.

More like deluded, fanatical and obsessive with his poor trades and desire to offload Gibbs for any forward who is taller than 191 cms.

Wants to trade Gibbs for Gumbleton, yet that trade would never get off the ground in a millions years.

Gumbleton is a poor kick.

May, I just pick you up on the point of Gibbs.
Can someone actually attest to the fact we'd sorely miss him if he wasn't there, right now?

There may well be underlying reasons for his lack of intensity and form of late, for someone who in all reality should be producing much more than he is at the moment.
For all of Gibbs' output this year to date, he'd be no better than a M.O.R. midfielder in terms of his effectiveness and imposition upon a match, have it not being for the fact of his name.

We all know how could he is at best but for now, I ask: Show me the money, Gibbs.

 

[Malifice]

LOL.

More like deluded, fanatical and obsessive with his poor trades and desire to offload Gibbs for any forward who is taller than 191 cms.

Dont misrepresent me like that dude.

Ive been clear that trading a player like Gibbs should be a last resort.

But clearly you either think:

a) Our forward line is fine for the next 5+ years and is capable of getting us a premiership or two when our window opens in a few years,

or

b) We should be able to find a quality KPP by trading hacks, or with our highish picks in the next few compromised Drafts.

Hurley has dominated against men at both ends of the ground in his second year, yet had an interrupted pre-season and 2010 due to injury and his court case. If you can't see that Hurley has a high ceiling, then I guess you're only talking to Crows fans about the best young players in the AFL. Hurley is one of the best kicks with both feet in the AFL, yet he's a big man and not a mid.

Whats with this man love for Hurley?

 

[Salaryman]

We don't really have a bloke who can kick it 50-60m to advantage off a couple of steps, and can barely afford to give one away. Not to mention his decision making (which is probably a large proportion of the reason he is playing back as we don't have the most natural decision makers in the back 6)

Gibbs hasn't had the best year by his standards, but has still been productive in most games to very good in some.....like Diesel you expect so much of him every time he laces up the boots.

The visionaries and De Bono's of the board might be better served thiking of a way to get a tough uncomprimising HBF who can kick tto free Gibbs up into the midfield rather than worrying about a speculativie tall.

And I can't believe anyone in their right mind would pick Walker in their team above Hurley.

 

[Malifice]

May, I just pick you up on the point of Gibbs.
Can someone actually attest to the fact we'd sorely miss him if he wasn't there, right now?

In the role he plays at the moment, and on current from, I honestly dont think we would miss him... at the moment.

We all know how could he is at best but for now, I ask: Show me the money, Gibbs.

Its a little OT, but I agree. Fantastic player who needs to lift his intensity.

He reminds me a bit of Deledio in this respect.

 

[Salaryman]

In the role he plays at the moment, and on current from, I honestly dont think we would miss him... at the moment.

.

The reason he's playing that role is we don't have anyone else with his attributes, so wouldn't we doubly miss him

 

[HARKER]

In the role he plays at the moment, and on current from, I honestly dont think we would miss him... at the moment.
Its a little OT, but I agree. Fantastic player who needs to lift his intensity.

He reminds me a bit of Deledio in this respect.

It just surprises me that Gibbs more than anyone else here is a protected species.
We are happy getting stuck into Judd and Murphy from time to time, but the name Gibbs comes up and we all pull back the reins.

We are not talking about the second year blues with Gibbs and we all know him to be much better than for what he is giving us right now.
I even started a thread earlier this year as to outline my reasoning for why I feel Gibbs needs to play down back, but have changed tack not for doubting the reasoning but for the results that have emanated form he being palyed down there.

If that be a protest of some sort from him, than we better had work it out pretty soon.

 

[HARKER]

The reason he's playing that role is we don't have anyone else with his attributes, so wouldn't we doubly miss him

I'm really not sure.
A player of Gibbs' class will shine through eventually but right now for whichever role he has been delegated to play, his output and intent for the ball is down.

I wish that wasn't what I see, but it is.

 

[Malifice]

I'm really not sure.
A player of Gibbs' class will shine through eventually but right now for whichever role he has been delegated to play, his output and intent for the ball is down.

I wish that wasn't what I see, but it is.

At the risk of derailing the thread, Im with you Harks.

Im not persuaded that Gibbs should be playing down back. Id rather see him in the midfield or on a HFF.

 

[Salaryman]

Form is a state, and as you point out is transient.....the qualities he brings (while mediated by form) are traits that don't grow on trees, either in the draft or at the trade table.

 

[Malifice]

Form is a state, and as you point out is transient.....the qualities he brings (while mediated by form) are traits that don't grow on trees, either in the draft or at the trade table.

Thoroughly agree with you here mate. He's a gun who is down on form a tad at the moment.

However its not his current form that worries me, its his lack of defensive skills. We can talk up (rightly IMO) his disposal, time and space and decision making (all first rate), however defensively he isnt great on the one one ones.

This isnt his fault, he can only play where we play him.

He is getting exploited by opponents be dragging him deep in the F50 (similar to how Hendo exposed Delidio on the weekend).

I assume Ratts is doing it not only to provide a player with accurate disposal and quality decision making in the backline (to avoid our problem with turnovers) but also partly for his development in the next few years where we arent going to be seriously challenging for a premiership.

Im not suggesting he is a poor player. Quite the opposite. Its just if we cant lure a quality KPP to fix what I see as a hole in our list by offloading Hacks or fringe players or drafting one in the next few years of (compromised) drafts. If we had to offload a good player to get a deal for a secpnd young talented KPP, Gibbs is the one I would be looking at as valuable bait to get the Job done.

Catching flies with honey and all that.

 

[HARKER]

Im not suggesting he is a poor player. Quite the opposite. Its just if we cant lure a quality KPP to fix what I see as a hole in our list by offloading Hacks or fringe players or drafting one in the next few years of (compromised) drafts. If we had to offload a good player to get a deal for a secpnd young talented KPP, Gibbs is the one I would be looking at as valuable bait to get the Job done.

Catching flies with honey and all that.

It won't happen we all know that.
Some people do have an issue with any talk of trading marquee players, yet I find the notion exciting for the fact it is so unexpected of any club to do so.
If the weight of logic stacks up and the promise of a flag is closer for giving into any such trade, then why not?

 

[Silvagnis]

Dont misrepresent me like that dude.

Maybe you should stop throwing up ludicrous trade suggestions for a player who apparently knocked back better money to re-sign with Carlton.

Ive been clear that trading a player like Gibbs should be a last resort.

But clearly you either think:

a) Our forward line is fine for the next 5+ years and is capable of getting us a premiership or two when our window opens in a few years,

or

b) We should be able to find a quality KPP by trading hacks, or with our highish picks in the next few compromised Drafts.

I never said that we have the forwards.

Your Gibbs argument isn't last resort, but a mantra that's being going on and on for a while now. It's as mind numbing as all the crap we have to put up in trade week. Yet we haven't even finished the H & A season. You want to dump a player via all these magical and fantastic trade suggestions for players who haven't shown as much. Frankly, they're as bad as celtic_pride's and starchamber's suggestions of getting Dangerfield for Gibbs.

Why don't we just offer up Murphy for a forward then and be done with it?

After all, the end justifies the means...

We might get a KPF if that's all that you want.

You're underselling one of our best players and talents by a long, long way.

We should keep going to the draft and not cut off our nose to spite our face.

The thought of offering up Grigg and Hampson turns my stomach.

Don't start me on Gibbs.

Whats with this man love for Hurley?

Isn't Hurley popular enough on BF and established enough for you to rate him?

No man love.

Hurley is a better footballer than Walker.

 

[HARKER]

Your Gibbs argument isn't last resort, but a mantra that's being going on and on for a while now. It's as mind numbing as all the crap we have to put up in trade week. Yet we haven't even finished the H & A season. You want to dump a player via all these magical and fantastic trade suggestions for players who haven't shown as much. Frankly, they're as bad as celtic_pride's and starchamber's suggestions of getting Dangerfield for Gibbs.

We might get a KPF if that's all that you want.

You're underselling one of our best players and talents by a long, long way.

We should keep going to the draft and not cut off our nose to spite our face.

The thought of offering up Grigg and Hampson turns my stomach.

Don't start me on Gibbs.

Isn't Hurley popular enough on BF and established enough for you to rate him?

No man love.

Hurley is a better footballer than Walker.

Jesus, I didn't know I'd entered into a discussion on global warming here.
For all the words being bandied about it is all just rhetorical and coming from Malifice, not without thought or reason.

Isn't the thought of offering up Grigg or Hampson without entering into what you may gain in return, just a little short sighted. Wouldn't you say?

 

[Malifice]

Maybe you should stop throwing up ludicrous trade suggestions for a player who apparently knocked back better money to re-sign with Carlton.

Ill post what I want thanks.

You can feel free to do the same.

I never said that we have the forwards.

If we dont have them, how do you propose we get them?

Your Gibbs argument isn't last resort, but a mantra that's being going on and on for a while now. It's as mind numbing as all the crap we have to put up in trade week.

I post it as an option that (in my opinion) I wouldnt be opposed to if the deal was right for the footy club.

Yet we haven't even finished the H & A season. You want to dump a player via all these magical and fantastic trade suggestions for players who haven't shown as much.

You are being one sided and reversing my argument.

My argument is that we need another KPP (preferably a forward). I struggle to see how we are going to get one on our list in time for our window opening without trading a good player or something of value to aquire one.

My preference is to keep all our good players if possible.

I just dont think it is possible.

And the last thing I want is for our kids to develop and our window to open and us not have the balance right in all areas of the park.

Id rather the club make decsions that benefit the team as a whole and get us closer to a flag or two, than simply offer blind loyalty to our players and not engage in open and frank discussions of issues such as overall structure.

The Croad trade to Freo wasnt popular at the time, but do you see Hawthorn complaining now? Take Hodge out of that side, and they would be a flag down, and a far lesser side.

They made tough decsions on a popular player to achieve greater success for the club.

We should consider the same.

Frankly, they're as bad as celtic_pride's and starchamber's suggestions of getting Dangerfield for Gibbs.

Calm down with the insults dude.

Play the ball, not the man.

Isn't Hurley popular enough on BF and established enough for you to rate him?

I rate Hurley. If we could get him great. He was a name I threw up earlier in the year as someone we should target.

But realistically?

Walker is a player who fits the bill niceley, and he might just actually be available (according to the rumours).

 

[Malifice]

While were on the topic of terrible trades, if anyone wants a laugh, go here:

Alright
1st rounder + Jetta for Lynch.
Where can I sign?

 

[amer]

It's what Hurley will do as a KPP after he's played 100 games.

Hurley has the potential to be an A grader and a power KPP who can play at both ends of the ground. Yet Hurley kicked Essendon into the finals in his ninth game with four goals.

Elite prospect who can kick 55 plus with both feet.

Must be carrying an injury.

A player of Hurley's talent wouldn't kick straight to Grigg and misjudge a marking contest with Robinson.

I believe Walker was dropped for his lack of defensive pressure and to work on that. That isn't an issue with Hurley and Riewoldt who have played at both ends. Riewoldt played as a defender against Carlton in Judd's first season, yet still streamed down the ground to kick a goal from 50 on the run. I'd give up more for a Hurley or Riewoldt than Walker who is still in his second year.

A lot more.

We know that they've already proven themselves as number one back and forward in a bottom side.

That part in bold alone shoots a thousand wholes through your embarrassing facade. Walker is a phenomenal kick on both feet, better than Hurley, better penetration than Hurley, and while he'll never end up a utility, I guarantee you he'll shit all over Hurley as a forward. I'd put my life on it.

What you guys aren't seeming to get is that regardless of what you perceive Walker's value to be based on the little you've seen of him, his talent goes well, well above and beyond what any of you here have pegged it at, and the AFC would not even glance at a trade proposal unless you offered absolutely elite talent in return. Jacobs + 1st rounder wouldn't even get you in the ballpark.

 

[Jeremias]

What you guys aren't seeming to get is that regardless of what you perceive Walker's value to be based on the little you've seen of him, his talent goes well, well above and beyond what any of you here have pegged it at, and the AFC would not even glance at a trade proposal unless you offered absolutely elite talent in return. Jacobs + 1st rounder wouldn't even get you in the ballpark.

That's all well and good, but is not the case if Walker does ask to be traded.

Don't even start to think that you'll get something that represents his value if he asks for a trades, especially if he specifies 1 or 2 clubs of preference.

Judd went for Kennedy, pick 3 and pick 20.

At the time of that trade the only elite talent was Judd.

WCE picked Masten and Notte who are closer to being delisted than being elite.

And Kennedy isn't someone I'd classify as elite either - although an excellent player on his day.

If Walker demands a trade it is highly unlikely you'll be getting anything 'elite' for him in return.

 

[Silvagnis]

I wasn't playing the man.

Your suggested trades are fantastic works of what ifs and maybes.

The Croad trade came about because Fremantle were idiots and traded down.

That's hardly the guide for trading 101.

The odds of getting Gibbs' value in a market where the GC hold all the cards is nil.

List structure can change if players develop or fail to develop.

We don't have anywhere near the strong midfield and flankers that is constantly thrown up in the media. That's at least two years away and dependant on Gibbs, Grigg, Robinson, Lucas, Yarran and Buckley developing into first choice mids.

And Mclean managing to get through a 22 game season.

Gibbs won't be traded.

Feel free to keep swinging away in hope and using a loyal 21 year old as bait.

You might hit one in a thousand balls out of the park.

No to Walker for Gibbs.

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

I've got a non-Carlton rumour ...

Ashley Smith (WCE) will probably end up at Richmond.

Richmond also looking into Tom Collier (Brisbane).

 

[Silvagnis]

That part in bold alone shoots a thousand wholes through your embarrassing facade. Walker is a phenomenal kick on both feet, better than Hurley, better penetration than Hurley

LOL.

Your insulated small town view is amusing.

This...

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Michael Hurley, Rising Star: Rd 18