Rumour in the 'tiser

[Z_K]

Figgy, we are coming from points of view so opposed that the nature of the universe as we know it is in terrible danger. Only Steven Hawking can fix that.

Let us not speak of it again.

 

[MarkT]

NorthBhoy, I have nightmares about MM’s list management. That’s why I am going to the AGM with illegal weapons (that’s a joke BTW for the ASIO dudes that are following me).

I didn’t have any issue for Caracella for free but Morrison I’d have left well alone.

As for Hale, you may be right. He was ordinary against us and we ruck circus animals. FWIW Fraser gave Spida a hiding last year and I don’t rate his rucking. I don’t have anything at all against Hale and as I said I’d take him but he isn’t the answer for us at this point. I may well have a different point of view after 2006 is done and dusted.

FYI Fraser was to miss a week with a knee strain in round 1. That’s what some Indian doctor said via telephone from the airport I Queensland anyway. I think he said his name was Patal or something. I didn't take much notice at the time but apparently he sorted Didak out for us too. Molloy recommended him highly. We only pay him a mil or so they tell me.

 

[Z_K]

NorthBhoy, I have nightmares about MM’s list management. That’s why I am going to the AGM with illegal weapons (that’s a joke BTW for the ASIO dudes that are following me).

If you do ask questions, you will be terribly disapointed with the response. Coaches are arrogant, stubborn human beings. They cannot be questioned. You will be dismissed quicker than you will realise.

I didn’t have any issue for Caracella for free but Morrison I’d have left well alone.

Chad an old favorite? I didn't see the point personally. Even fully fit and in form, he wasn't going to give Collingwood anything you desperately needed. I don't see why a punt on a kid ruckman or a speedy mid wouldn't have been more suitable.

As for Hale, you may be right. He was ordinary against us and we ruck circus animals. FWIW Fraser gave Spida a hiding last year and I don’t rate his rucking. I don’t have anything at all against Hale and as I said I’d take him but he isn’t the answer for us at this point. I may well have a different point of view after 2006 is done and dusted.

Fair enough.

FYI Fraser was to miss a week with a knee strain in round 1. That’s what some Indian doctor said via telephone from the airport I Queensland anyway. I think he said his name was Patal or something. I didn't take much notice at the time but apparently he sorted Didak out for us too. Molloy recommended him highly. We only pay him a mil or so they tell me

.

Ha.

Did this Patel fella give any indications as to whether it was a permanent career type injury? Maybe something to do with playing Josh in the ruck as a 18 year old when he was still growing? I reckon even Mr Patel would have known this to be folly and he is no doubt far from Mr Football.

 

[FIGJAM]

Figgy, we are coming from points of view so opposed that the nature of the universe as we know it is in terrible danger. Only Steven Hawking can fix that.

Let us not speak of it again.

I take it that the statistics I provided were not to your liking.

Sorry to present you with the truth!

I'm open to discussion NB...please tell me, why is he good??

 

[Z_K]

I take it that the statistics I provided were not to your liking.

Faning has simmilar stats to Seaby. Safe to say which one will be the better performed.

Sorry to present you with the truth!

Not the truth, just stats.

I'm open to discussion NB...please tell me, why is he good??

Haven't we done this before? I am not really interested in changing your mind. The comment that you wouldn't take him in the PSD for free actually rammed home how bad he is, in your opinion.

But anyway, how good do I think he is?

I will summarise by saying that if I had to choose between him and Wells to keep, I would have to think about it.

 

[FIGJAM]

Faning has simmilar stats to Seaby. Safe to say which one will be the better performed.

Ummm...yeah, Seaby was playing most of the time off the bench and in a forward pocket. Rucked sometimes.

Fanny and Hale though is a more reasonable comparrison as they first rucked for quite sometime. Flaps is actually our most played ruckman (which in itself is amazing). Hale is yours.

They played a game together and broke even.

Haven't we done this before? I am not really interested in changing your mind. The comment that you wouldn't take him in the PSD for free actually rammed home how bad he is, in your opinion.

But anyway, how good do I think he is?

I will summarise by saying that if I had to choose between him and Wells to keep, I would have to think about it.

But that's about as useful as statistics! You're biased towards having to consider just how important he is to your team.

Fraser and Richards are (when fit) better than Hale. There isn't a doubt in my mind. Add in skinny old Flaps and maybe I am doing the reverse of you, in that I don't want another beanpole ruckman (ie. he's the last thing in the world we need).

Maybe I am biased by this fact, but I do watch a bit of footy, and I have serious concerns over Hale's physicallity and balance. They're concerns which I can't believe you can't see!

But hey, I'm delighted for you guys to keep him and play him first ruck for the next decade, and you seem to agree with me, so let's keep it at that!

 

[Z_K]

Fanny and Hale though is a more reasonable comparrison as they first rucked for quite sometime. Flaps is actually our most played ruckman (which in itself is amazing). Hale is yours.

No he wasn't. Petrie was our first ruck for most, if not all of the year.

They played a game together and broke even.

Fanning probably beat him in that game, so that favours your argument. But, I saw Duncan Kelleway absolute carve Wayne Carey one day so I am confused.

But that's about as useful as statistics! You're biased towards having to consider just how important he is to your team.

He is important now, but I am making that call on how important he will be more than anything he has done in his 35 or so games so far.

Fraser and Richards are (when fit) better than Hale. There isn't a doubt in my mind. Add in skinny old Flaps and maybe I am doing the reverse of you, in that I don't want another beanpole ruckman (ie. he's the last thing in the world we need).

My query is basically why you think he is ordinary not on his value to Collingwood, an opinion I still find puzzling given your ruck stocks and their ability to cope with injury, but you know your list better than I do of course......

Maybe I am biased by this fact, but I do watch a bit of footy, and I have serious concerns over Hale's physicallity and balance. They're concerns which I can't believe you can't see!

Physicallity? He is never gonna beat blokes up (I am not sure how many 21yo 35 game ruckman do though) but neither does the best ruckman in the comp. He is a very tough kid. His ability to play through some serious injuries this year and play well impressed me greatly. Balance? He does look slightly less agile than some, but it so much an asthetic thing. I would love to sit with you and point out some of his work with a grounded footy.

But hey, I'm delighted for you guys to keep him and play him first ruck for the next decade, and you seem to agree with me, so let's keep it at that!

I tried to reach this agreement 1 page ago ya goose!!!

 

[MarkT]

If you do ask questions, you will be terribly disapointed with the response. Coaches are arrogant, stubborn human beings. They cannot be questioned. You will be dismissed quicker than you will realise.

I am not naïve. Nor am I frightened.

Chad an old favorite? I didn't see the point personally. Even fully fit and in form, he wasn't going to give Collingwood anything you desperately needed. I don't see why a punt on a kid ruckman or a speedy mid wouldn't have been more suitable.

Arguably he cost nothing. We’ll never know who we would have taken with pick 7. As far as I’m concerned Chad is another average paced average skilled drone that we already have too many and that are the fundamental problem with our game plan and worse which we already have seen be beaten in 2 grand finals.

Maybe something to do with playing Josh in the ruck as a 18 year old when he was still growing?

I said at the that playing Josh in the ruck at 18 was stupid. I was told by some that we had no choice but we sure as hell did. We traded for McKee (Christ we gave up Pavlich in Fraser’s draft for him). What on Earth was it about McKee that Malthouse though he liked? Must have been his haricut and the fact he was a good bloke. No one surely though he was much of a ruckman. Anyway, the alternative we had was to get a real ruckman which we so plainly needed then, in 2002/3 and still need now.

Anyway, we have Fanning, Jason Cloke and Guy “Ward 3” Richards to dominate the rucks now so it’s all good. IIRC Jason might have done ok on your boy Hale. Got Brownlow votes for goodness sake. You’re gonna have hard time convincing anyone at Collingwood Hale is worth Josh Fraser on THAT form.

...please tell me, why is he good??

You might find this hard to believe from a mere mortal but he held Jason Cloke as opposing ruckman to only 1 Brownlow vote. Can there be anything more definitive than that?

 

[Z_K]

I am not naïve. Nor am I frightened

I would believe that, but they will give you nothing. Absolutely nothing.

I said at the that playing Josh in the ruck at 18 was stupid. I was told by some that we had no choice but we sure as hell did.

Surely MM hasn't used the old "we had no choice" argument has he?

Anyway, we have Fanning, Jason Cloke and Guy “Ward 3” Richards to dominate the rucks now so it’s all good. IIRC Jason might have done ok on your boy Hale. Got Brownlow votes for goodness sake. You’re gonna have hard time convincing anyone at Collingwood Hale is worth Josh Fraser on THAT form.

On no planet or any other would I trade Hale for Fraser. Absolutely no way. Ever. If you had a gun pointed at my testicles I would pull the trigger myself.

You might find this hard to believe from a mere mortal but he held Jason Cloke as opposing ruckman to only 1 Brownlow vote. Can there be anything more definitive than that?

Oh, we using Brownlow votes now? Is that the game where Brent Harvey only got two votes after playing the best game I saw live all year by anyone? Right.....the old Brownlow vote argument. Fail safe winner that one.

 

[Vinnie Vegas]

Oh, we using Brownlow votes now? Is that the game where Brent Harvey only got two votes after playing the best game I saw live all year by anyone? Right.....the old Brownlow vote argument. Fail safe winner that one.

Didn't Brent Harvey kick miss a couple of gimme shots on goal that game?

You've got to get to the footy more often if that was the best you saw all year.

 

[Z_K]

Didn't Brent Harvey kick miss a couple of gimme shots on goal that game?

You've got to get to the footy more often if that was the best you saw all year.

Best I saw live this year. Live, as in, best I saw in person. Am I making sense yet?

He had 34 touches, 9 marks and kicked 2 goals 2. Dragged us over the line by himself, and considering his opponent and how many scalps he took this year, it was a massive game.

 

[FIGJAM]

You might find this hard to believe from a mere mortal but he held Jason Cloke as opposing ruckman to only 1 Brownlow vote. Can there be anything more definitive than that?

Inanimate Carbon Rod >>>>>>>>>>> Hale

 

[MarkT]

Oh, we using Brownlow votes now? Is that the game where Brent Harvey only got two votes after playing the best game I saw live all year by anyone? Right.....the old Brownlow vote argument. Fail safe winner that one.

I’ll say it slowly for you.
We are using whatever suits our argument.
Did you think we dealt in facts on the Collingwood board?
You didn’t come here for an education did you?

In all seriousness, when you see someone live and they aren't impressive, let alone they get beaten by someone of questionable ability being played out of position, you can tend to be a bit sceptical. I've seen him have good influence on TV and for a ruckman come forward he looks promising. So did Petire. The jury is well and truly still out on Hale. In his favour there are very few good ruckmen around.

FWIW Harvey murdered us like I knew he would. I wish we worked on him when he was wavering last pre season.