Racing SA "Punters Tax"

[FallingLiefs]

Sportsbet withdrawing sponsorship of racecourses, pulling odds boost on SA racing and won't open markets before race morning.

Surely pulling the piss and trying to get the public on their side to reduce this tax? Amazing refusal by these English corporations to pay taxes on what is basically a printing money business in its current form.

 

[Lensen]

they pay taxes. this is rubbish from the SA government

 

[Jugada]

Yeah definitely on the side of the bookies rather than the money grabbing SA government

 

[54Dogs]

I thought the corps already paid GST, isn't this consumption tax a double dip?

 

[FallingLiefs]

I thought the corps already paid GST, isn't this consumption tax a double dip?

basically it's a push to stop corporates hiding in the NT paying heavily reduced fees compared to local bookmakers and actually paying in my opinion acceptable levels of tax to the races where the event is being held.

 

[FallingLiefs]

does anyone actually believe by sportsbet opening their books saturday morning instead of thursday they make more money or are they just striking to get the punters on their side?

i would love to be able to open markets at 135% on a thursday and have 2 days to get a book under control. i find it hard to believe they lose money on thursdays/fridays bets.

 

[Tassieboy]

Absolute garbage from the SA government. This is effectively a tax on punters.

 

[Tassieboy]

Crownbet was giving closing odds of 123% at Gawler today.

 

[54Dogs]

Crownbet was giving closing odds of 123% at Gawler today.

Crown closing odds at Gawler

R1 129%
R2 126%
R3 106%
R4 122%
R5 124%
R6 123%
R7 124%
R8 123%

UBet were around 115% for most races

 

[IKnowtheDog]

A bit of info on how the tax will work

http://theconversation.com/south-au...s-the-regulatory-mess-of-online-betting-72495

If Sportsbet doesn't want to feel the full effect of the tax don't ban/restrict winning punters, which, judging by twitter is into the hundreds of thousands

 

[cutterman]

A bit of info on how the tax will work

http://theconversation.com/south-au...s-the-regulatory-mess-of-online-betting-72495

If Sportsbet doesn't want to feel the full effect of the tax don't ban/restrict winning punters, which, judging by twitter is into the hundreds of thousands

There are so many claims in that article that are completely incorrect that any point it makes is invalid

 

[FallingLiefs]

A bit of info on how the tax will work

http://theconversation.com/south-au...s-the-regulatory-mess-of-online-betting-72495

If Sportsbet doesn't want to feel the full effect of the tax don't ban/restrict winning punters, which, judging by twitter is into the hundreds of thousands

Reasonable explanation that. Gets even worse when you consider the on course bookmakers rates in comparison.

 

[FallingLiefs]

There are so many claims in that article that are completely incorrect that any point it makes is invalid

Which bits are you disagreeing with?

 

[Hamingja]

So how does it work. Is it just tax from the bookies profit from SA residents or is it also taxing the profit from interstate punters who bet on events based in SA?

The bookies get away with murder with the NT government. It really should be nationally based legislation.

 

[Duritz]

I am all for the removal of this bullshit state based system. Anyone who thinks overseas owned corporate bookmakers should be allowed to pay stuff all to the industry and take all the profits overseas must want the industry to die.

 

[FallingLiefs]

So how does it work. Is it just tax from the bookies profit from SA residents or is it also taxing the profit from interstate punters who bet on events based in SA?

The bookies get away with murder with the NT government. It really should be nationally based legislation.

SA residents. from what I've been told WA will be next and then the rest will follow.

 

[54Dogs]

Surely a national governing body is the answer

 

[54Dogs]

This from another site

Resident of SA and just had my CB closed today. See below:

I am writing to inform you that unfortunately we have had to close your Centrebet account due to the newly introduced Point of Consumption tax that affects South Australian customers.
Unfortunately, it is not economically viable for us to continue to bet you given this imposition.

 

[FallingLiefs]

This from another site

Resident of SA and just had my CB closed today. See below:

I am writing to inform you that unfortunately we have had to close your Centrebet account due to the newly introduced Point of Consumption tax that affects South Australian customers.
Unfortunately, it is not economically viable for us to continue to bet you given this imposition.

Now I'm quite cynical but I call BS on that.

Is he

category a) a winning SA punter that they were already betting in which case the tax on total profit doesn't affect them as he actually reduces their profits on SA bets.

Or

category b) a losing as punter who's money CB don't want?

 

[54Dogs]

Now I'm quite cynical but I call BS on that.

Is he

category a) a winning SA punter that they were already betting in which case the tax on total profit doesn't affect them as he actually reduces their profits on SA bets.

Or

category b) a losing as punter who's money CB don't want?

nfi but I guess we'll know soon enough. If CB have committed to take on all winning punters then they should all be in or all be out.

 

[Jugada]

Centrebet want everyone's money. That's their whole brand now. The new tax just makes the odds they need to offer impossible

 

[FallingLiefs]

Centrebet want everyone's money. That's their whole brand now. The new tax just makes the odds they need to offer impossible

You realise this is a profit tax, not turnover tax like NSW is introducing? Their gross profit doesn't change it's just the last step on how much goes back to the UK.

They make 550mil and pay 550k (the max in NT) in wagering tax currently FFS. (Plus race field fees of like 1.8c to the dollar for country meets and 2.7c to the dollar for feature meets)

This is what has to happen for sustainability of horse racing in the australaisia. If only it was federal but they won't budge at a federal level yet.its not a level playing field and they've. Been let get away with too much to promote competition, it's time to even it up.

 

[cutterman]

Which bits are you disagreeing with?

The claim that bookies only pay 1.1% in tax is absolute tripe. There's no mention of the 10% GST, no mention of product fees that amount to around 20-25% of all winnings. Throw the POC tax on top (assuming it's national) there's almost 50% of gross winnings gone, before any promotions and overheads and before the 30% comany tax.

The claim that it "won't send bookmakers to the wall". Have a look at the financial statements of the major bookies, all bar Sportsbet and Tabcorp/Tatts are running at losses. And Tabcorp/Tatts have the significant competitive advantage of the retail network.

Ultimately this is either going to lead to more consolidation, or more people leaving the market. Either way, it means less competitors, meaning less competition, less innovation and a worse price for punters. We'll all be the losers here

 

[Duritz]

This from another site

Resident of SA and just had my CB closed today. See below:

I am writing to inform you that unfortunately we have had to close your Centrebet account due to the newly introduced Point of Consumption tax that affects South Australian customers.
Unfortunately, it is not economically viable for us to continue to bet you given this imposition.

Regardless of anything else, they're not allowed to not bet you on VIC and NSW racing, so you can compel them to reopen it and they are breaking legislation by closing it.

 

[sprucemoooose]

You realise this is a profit tax, not turnover tax like NSW is introducing? Their gross profit doesn't change it's just the last step on how much goes back to the UK.

They make 550mil and pay 550k (the max in NT) in wagering tax currently FFS. (Plus race field fees of like 1.8c to the dollar for country meets and 2.7c to the dollar for feature meets)

This is what has to happen for sustainability of horse racing in the australaisia. If only it was federal but they won't budge at a federal level yet.its not a level playing field and they've. Been let get away with too much to promote competition, it's time to even it up.

Where do I even begin?
1) No bookie is making $550m. Like most economic illiterate folk you are most likely confusing turnover/revenue with profit. A bookie might hold $550m after calculating turnover minus winning bets paid but that doesn't take into account all the expenses involved in the operation of the bookie.
Wesfarmers turned over $66b and had a profit of $3.6b last year. Does anyone go around saying Wesfarmers made $66b? Of course not.
2) The bookies also pay federal taxes like GST, FBT & Income. People seem to think that bookies pay their early $550k to NT and that it somehow excludes them from their other tax obligations. They also pay state taxes in the form of payroll tax.
There seems to be so much jealously around what the NT has setup. They saw a way to bring in more revenue that would otherwise no be possible through the creation of the NTRC. Every other state could have done the same thing all those years ago but they didn't.
3) Racefield/product fees are not that simple as you make them out to be. They vary state by state and even code by code in Victoria and NSW. This belief that the corps are not contributing to the racing industry is a laughable statement in 2017. The rates have been going up and up and will continue to do so.
The bigger racing bodies have smartened up and take the higher of gross win and turnover. If the bookie has a terrible day the racing body still gets paid. If a bookie has a great day margin wise the racing body gets paid even more. A win win situation for them.
On the bigger Spring Carnival days it is inevitable that a bookie will have a day or two where they break even or even lose money after taking into account the race field fees.
4)Do you really think any of this new state government tax revenue is going to flow through to the racing bodies? State governments are addicted to new revenue streams to pay for the ever increasing size of their obligations. Especially in a basket case state like SA.
5) The internet has disrupted different industries so this belief that state governments have the right to introduce this consumption taxes as a way to claw back lost 'revenue' is a joke. Maybe the SA government should also introduce a consumption tax on online clothing stores like The Iconic because they have taken away sales from local fashion shops. Then hit online travelling sites such as Wotif & Expedia with the consumption tax because after all they taken away business from your suburban travel agent.