"Sack Goodwin!"

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Tempy Tiger

Premiership Player
Sep 18, 2006
4,389
3,514
AFL Club
Melbourne
Our game plan is the equivalent of that guy at the bar who propositions every woman in the joint. Problem is that guy either goes home drunk and alone or with the biggest bush pig in there. Our coaches seem to think that we just need to win the contested possession count and have more forward entries and then we get the points. Simon, please, quality over quantity mate.
 

Topkent

Hall of Famer
Aug 29, 2010
38,118
48,085
Canada
AFL Club
Melbourne
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Night day us and Collingwood. De Goey and Stephenson kept circling leads and hitting up at the ball carrier while Mihocek and Cox created space. Our forward plan seems to be 'turn and go' and share it around. There's no semblance of a clear plan to score. There's no isolating of Petracca deep, no space for Weid to lead into.
 

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Gysberts2Bate

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 12, 2013
17,333
20,509
Melbourne
AFL Club
Melbourne
Night day us and Collingwood. De Goey and Stephenson kept circling leads and hitting up at the ball carrier while Mihocek and Cox created space. Our forward plan seems to be 'turn and go' and share it around. There's no semblance of a clear plan to score. There's no isolating of Petracca deep, no space for Weid to lead into.
We are shithouse but Collingwood are average at best. Their ladder positiion flatters them.
 

mrmonkey

Premiership Player
Dec 3, 2010
3,837
3,757
Melbourne
AFL Club
Melbourne
Night day us and Collingwood. De Goey and Stephenson kept circling leads and hitting up at the ball carrier while Mihocek and Cox created space. Our forward plan seems to be 'turn and go' and share it around. There's no semblance of a clear plan to score. There's no isolating of Petracca deep, no space for Weid to lead into.
The other problem is there's no clean possession for our forwards to get a good lead in. It's handpass to someone underpressure who then handpassess to someone under pressure. There's no control about our play it's constantly go go go. When we do manage to get it through our forwards are out of position or because everything is so rushed the opposition has had plenty of time to flood the backline. The commentators were calling Stephenson space man. Why was that? Was it because our game plan is so hectic that when we do turn it over everyone has ran forward so now Collingwood have heaps of space to find. I'm not bagging Stephenson but how easy would it be to find space against our mob.
 

Reality IS

Debutant
May 8, 2019
114
131
AFL Club
Melbourne
Why do teams we play against have an open forward line with lots of space to work in but our forward line is the exact opposite every week? Thats the really key/problem we have!

By the way Schmutt Goody will get the flick...the dee's will keep loosing and the pressure will mount.
 

Johnny Karate

Club Legend
Apr 13, 2015
1,260
3,270
AFL Club
Melbourne
Perhaps I’m a tinfoil hat wearer but I believe that our poor kicking at goal and the opposition’s accuracy is a by-product of our system. In 2017 Geelong kicked 20.6 to our 13.19 and this year we have had West Coast 13.7 to 9.15, Adelaide 14.6 to 12.16 and Collingwood 15.8 (9.0 in the second half) to our 7.15 (4.10 in the second half). Even in the wins against Hawthorn and Gold Coast we were poor compared with their relative accuracy in front of the sticks. If it happened occasionally, it could be put down to bad luck but the fact this happens constantly points to a flaw in our system.

We flood our own forward line which means we have quite a few low percentage pot shots on the run with the goalsquare well guarded as well as set shots often 30+ metres out on angles - this is compounded by many players who end up with the ball in their hands who have zero confidence in front of goal such as Petracca, Gawn, T Smith, Garlett, ANB etc who miss more often than not which puts more pressure on the more capable set shots such as Weed, T Mac etc. We could do worse than getting the likes of Salem, Fritsch and Lewis (when he’s in the team) in more dangerous scoring positions.

The flip side is that the opposition is able to whisk the ball up the other end and score from point blank range or take a potshot safe in the knowledge that no one is covering the goal square. Stephenson butchered his set shots as much as any of our players, the difference was that our defensive structure is kind enough to give you plenty of looks and a few point blank opportunities.
 

Tempy Tiger

Premiership Player
Sep 18, 2006
4,389
3,514
AFL Club
Melbourne
Perhaps I’m a tinfoil hat wearer but I believe that our poor kicking at goal and the opposition’s accuracy is a by-product of our system. In 2017 Geelong kicked 20.6 to our 13.19 and this year we have had West Coast 13.7 to 9.15, Adelaide 14.6 to 12.16 and Collingwood 15.8 (9.0 in the second half) to our 7.15 (4.10 in the second half). Even in the wins against Hawthorn and Gold Coast we were poor compared with their relative accuracy in front of the sticks. If it happened occasionally, it could be put down to bad luck but the fact this happens constantly points to a flaw in our system.

We flood our own forward line which means we have quite a few low percentage pot shots on the run with the goalsquare well guarded as well as set shots often 30+ metres out on angles - this is compounded by many players who end up with the ball in their hands who have zero confidence in front of goal such as Petracca, Gawn, T Smith, Garlett, ANB etc who miss more often than not which puts more pressure on the more capable set shots such as Weed, T Mac etc. We could do worse than getting the likes of Salem, Fritsch and Lewis (when he’s in the team) in more dangerous scoring positions.

The flip side is that the opposition is able to whisk the ball up the other end and score from point blank range or take a potshot safe in the knowledge that no one is covering the goal square. Stephenson butchered his set shots as much as any of our players, the difference was that our defensive structure is kind enough to give you plenty of looks and a few point blank opportunities.
Our forward entries are the equivalent of a dog humping someone’s leg. Lots of effort and enthusiasm but in the end no result and everyone is frustrated.
 

PerfectFooty

Perfect Cell
Apr 23, 2013
12,928
12,489
Benalla
AFL Club
Melbourne
Other Teams
Williamstown Seagulls
Perhaps I’m a tinfoil hat wearer but I believe that our poor kicking at goal and the opposition’s accuracy is a by-product of our system. In 2017 Geelong kicked 20.6 to our 13.19 and this year we have had West Coast 13.7 to 9.15, Adelaide 14.6 to 12.16 and Collingwood 15.8 (9.0 in the second half) to our 7.15 (4.10 in the second half). Even in the wins against Hawthorn and Gold Coast we were poor compared with their relative accuracy in front of the sticks. If it happened occasionally, it could be put down to bad luck but the fact this happens constantly points to a flaw in our system.

We flood our own forward line which means we have quite a few low percentage pot shots on the run with the goalsquare well guarded as well as set shots often 30+ metres out on angles - this is compounded by many players who end up with the ball in their hands who have zero confidence in front of goal such as Petracca, Gawn, T Smith, Garlett, ANB etc who miss more often than not which puts more pressure on the more capable set shots such as Weed, T Mac etc. We could do worse than getting the likes of Salem, Fritsch and Lewis (when he’s in the team) in more dangerous scoring positions.

The flip side is that the opposition is able to whisk the ball up the other end and score from point blank range or take a potshot safe in the knowledge that no one is covering the goal square. Stephenson butchered his set shots as much as any of our players, the difference was that our defensive structure is kind enough to give you plenty of looks and a few point blank opportunities.
I also think it's simply us not adjusting to the new rules either. If we have two off the back of the square like we used too, sure it leaves our forward line undermanned but it actually gives the forwards some space for a kick forward, and the two off the back can either influence the clearance or get back and help out if it goes the other way
 

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Thewlis Dish

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 9, 2003
26,469
23,877
Five Star Laundry
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
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Perhaps I’m a tinfoil hat wearer but I believe that our poor kicking at goal and the opposition’s accuracy is a by-product of our system. In 2017 Geelong kicked 20.6 to our 13.19 and this year we have had West Coast 13.7 to 9.15, Adelaide 14.6 to 12.16 and Collingwood 15.8 (9.0 in the second half) to our 7.15 (4.10 in the second half). Even in the wins against Hawthorn and Gold Coast we were poor compared with their relative accuracy in front of the sticks. If it happened occasionally, it could be put down to bad luck but the fact this happens constantly points to a flaw in our system.
Apologies for the intrusion, but this is spot on and something I would often think when North kicked poorly under Scott (particularly in first quarters) and fans would go "well, if we'd kicked 7.2 instead of 2.7...". I think consistent scoring inaccuracy is almost always down to system and quality of shots rather than bad luck - inversely, I always think the best way to determine how well a team is going is how hard they have to work for their scores, and what sorts of shots on goal they are getting.
 

schmuttt

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 12, 2014
21,210
33,106
AFL Club
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Apologies for the intrusion, but this is spot on and something I would often think when North kicked poorly under Scott (particularly in first quarters) and fans would go "well, if we'd kicked 7.2 instead of 2.7...". I think consistent scoring inaccuracy is almost always down to system and quality of shots rather than bad luck - inversely, I always think the best way to determine how well a team is going is how hard they have to work for their scores, and what sorts of shots on goal they are getting.
Yep, when you play such a high intensity gamestyle it really hurts your finishing ability. Look at Ross Lyon teams as another example.
 

Marc_Remillard

Maderator
Jan 4, 2015
6,516
7,314
AFL Club
Melbourne
Perhaps I’m a tinfoil hat wearer but I believe that our poor kicking at goal and the opposition’s accuracy is a by-product of our system. In 2017 Geelong kicked 20.6 to our 13.19 and this year we have had West Coast 13.7 to 9.15, Adelaide 14.6 to 12.16 and Collingwood 15.8 (9.0 in the second half) to our 7.15 (4.10 in the second half). Even in the wins against Hawthorn and Gold Coast we were poor compared with their relative accuracy in front of the sticks. If it happened occasionally, it could be put down to bad luck but the fact this happens constantly points to a flaw in our system.

We flood our own forward line which means we have quite a few low percentage pot shots on the run with the goalsquare well guarded as well as set shots often 30+ metres out on angles - this is compounded by many players who end up with the ball in their hands who have zero confidence in front of goal such as Petracca, Gawn, T Smith, Garlett, ANB etc who miss more often than not which puts more pressure on the more capable set shots such as Weed, T Mac etc. We could do worse than getting the likes of Salem, Fritsch and Lewis (when he’s in the team) in more dangerous scoring positions.

The flip side is that the opposition is able to whisk the ball up the other end and score from point blank range or take a potshot safe in the knowledge that no one is covering the goal square. Stephenson butchered his set shots as much as any of our players, the difference was that our defensive structure is kind enough to give you plenty of looks and a few point blank opportunities.
Good post, incredibly depressing but good a post nonetheless
 

Johnny Karate

Club Legend
Apr 13, 2015
1,260
3,270
AFL Club
Melbourne
I think this maybe part of the reason why the media haven’t gone full throttle at Goodwin. Think his style & game plan will be more so judged once he has more soldiers on the park👍
Look, it’s not a bad stat but injuries are a small issue imo. Best 22 is so subjective that I’m guessing this list would include players of Hannan, Hore, Kolodjashnij, vanders and perhaps J Smith’s calibre.

West Coast won a flag without Gaff, Naitanui and Sheppard who are all key pillars of that team. Collingwood were a whisker away from a flag without a genuine key defender. Sometimes injuries even provide opportunity, when Ben Griffiths went down, Richmond recalibrated their forward line into one that was small, dangerous and dynamic. When Naitanui went down, Lycett stepped up ditto Sheed for Gaff and Schofield for Sheppard.

Even in Goodwin’s first year we were largely able to cover Gawn and Hogan missing huge chunks of the season. I love Nev but his form wasn’t exactly fantastic before he injured himself. May and Lever are huge ins but we still made a prelim with Froscar last year. Melksham is a big loss but we still shouldn’t be bottom 3 because we are missing a half forward. Hibberd and Viney missed negligible games etc.
 
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Klyntonius

Norm Smith Medallist
Jan 9, 2004
6,383
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The nearest twisties
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I think this maybe part of the reason why the media haven’t gone full throttle at Goodwin. Think his style & game plan will be more so judged once he has more soldiers on the park👍
I think a lot of the media are hiding behind that to cover their own arse for picking us as contenders this year!

Gold Coast and Carlton are legitimate chances to win this weekend which will leave us dead last on the ladder. If that happens and then we lose to Freo, the burners will be turned up to high heat pretty quickly. Our injury list can be argued as a reason for not meeting the absolute heights of expectations but definitely not for being in contention for a wooden spoon.
 

00Stinger

Duel Group 1 winner
May 8, 2007
23,387
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Look, it’s not a bad stat but injuries are a small issue imo. Best 22 is so subjective that I’m guessing this list would include players of Hannan, Hore, Kolodjashnij, vanders and perhaps J Smith’s calibre.

West Coast won a flag without Gaff, Naitanui and Sheppard who are all key pillars of that team. Collingwood were a whisker away from a flag without a genuine key defender. Sometimes injuries even provide opportunity, when Ben Griffiths went down, Richmond recalibrated their forward line into one that was small, dangerous and dynamic. When Naitanui went down, Lycett stepped up ditto Sheed for Gaff and Schofield for Sheppard.

Even in Goodwin’s first year we were largely able to cover Gawn and Hogan missing huge chunks of the season. I love Nev but his form wasn’t exactly fantastic before he injured himself. May and Lever are huge ins but we still made a prelim with Froscar last year. Melksham is a big loss but we still shouldn’t be bottom 3 because we are missing a half forward. Hibberd and Viney missed negligible games etc.
Injuries during the season also don't take into consideration that a large chunk of our best 22 did little pre season due to injuries. Oliver, Petracca, Viney, McDonald, May ext and those players are all in our top 10 most important players.

Almost all AFL players will tell you how important it is to get a full pre season in. For me Melbourn in 2019 is the same as Adelaide in 2018.

If next year we are in a similar position then the big questions will come
 

Johnny Karate

Club Legend
Apr 13, 2015
1,260
3,270
AFL Club
Melbourne
Injuries during the season also don't take into consideration that a large chunk of our best 22 did little pre season due to injuries. Oliver, Petracca, Viney, McDonald, May ext and those players are all in our top 10 most important players.

Almost all AFL players will tell you how important it is to get a full pre season in. For me Melbourn in 2019 is the same as Adelaide in 2018.

If next year we are in a similar position then the big questions will come
No doubt a full preseason is vital. However, I’m still not sure the preseason + injuries = wooden spoon contention. The biggest part of the equation is poor planning and structure imo.
 

schmuttt

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 12, 2014
21,210
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Goodwin deserves a whipping this year, but if anyone thinks we're paying out somebody contracted to 2022 they've never had a look at our finances.
Pretty much. He'll get all of 2020 I'd imagine to try and right the ship, but two sh*t years in a row won't save him.
 

Ando727

Norm Smith Medallist
Dec 12, 2009
5,958
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Hobart
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Melbourne
Rubbish.
They were a freak kick away from being premiers, have easily the best midfield in the game and deepest and have an incredibly dangerous forward group who has everything.
I reluctantly agree with you - and I say reluctantly only because I have a chip installed in my brain that makes me incapable of fully acknowledging the Collingwood Football Club.
 

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