List Mgmt. Saint list reduction 2021

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St Plugger

Senior List
Feb 28, 2012
167
202
AFL Club
St Kilda
If they are doing the cuts to reduce costs, two new teams won't be even vaguely considered.
By playing 15/16 aside, the 2 new teams would be cost neutral. They would employ players who are already on the overall AFL payroll but make a bigger pie for the AFL, as well as satisfying the calls for a Tassie team and an additional W.A./ N.A. team.
The new clubs in themselves would be cheaper to run than clubs are at present, so may not require AFL financial support, or far less than what GWS and GCS needed.
Two extra teams would also mean an additional game each round, so the AFL would meet the number of games required by the various agreements with the broadcasters and maximise the payment for same.
There could then be a 20 round season with one bye per team ie no FIXture. Final 8 with 4 weeks of finals.
or
2 x 10 team conferences and a final 4, with each conference winner playing off in the GF. 5 weeks of finals, further satisfying the broadcasters.
Both concepts would fit into the 26 week AFL season.
 
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SaintsSeptember

Hall of Famer
Mar 19, 2008
42,117
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By playing 15/16 aside, the 2 new teams would be cost neutral. They would employ players who are already on the overall AFL payroll but make a bigger pie for the AFL, as well as satisfying the calls for a Tassie team and an additional W.A./ N.A. team.
The new clubs in themselves would be cheaper to run than clubs are at present, so may not require AFL financial support, or far less than what GWS and GCS needed.
Two extra teams would also mean an additional game each round, so the AFL would meet the number of games required by the various agreements with the broadcasters and maximise the payment for same.
There could then be a 20 round season with one bye per team ie no FIXture. Final 8 with 4 weeks of finals.
or
2 x 10 team conferences and a final 4, with each conference winner playing off in the GF. 5 weeks of finals, further satisfying the broadcasters.
Both concepts would fit into the 26 week AFL season.
Yeah the other new clubs were so cheap to set up.
 

StCicatriz

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 3, 2016
20,368
39,649
AFL Club
St Kilda

ike2112

Club Legend
May 29, 2012
1,492
1,124
Scotland
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Kingdom Kangaroos, Sandy Zebras
It's made more complicated this year by not knowing what the list rules will be.

Lots of proposals, such as overhaul of the Cat A/B rookies, whether you need to use a draft pick to elevate a rookie contract, potential freedom of movement between not just senior and rookie list but perhaps also a small reserve pool of VFL/state leaguers. As well as potential list reductions (I don't think it'll be as harsh aa first thought, but I also don't think it'll be business as usual).

I think either Austin or Clavarino are gone, maybe both.
Can't see us keeping Byrnes, Phillips and Connelly.
Mayo presume gone.
I think Parker is gone.
Webster can't be happy.
McKenzie doesn't seem close to a game.

Geary, Roberton, Carlisle all could stay or retire or in Carlisle's case could leave. He's one I think will want a 2yr deal and we won't give it, so whethee he stays depends on whether someone like Hawks will give 2yr.
 

CarnTheSAINTERS

All Australian
Jul 15, 2019
675
1,612
AFL Club
St Kilda
Here's the out of contract list:
2. Jake Carlisle - Link - Trade/Keep
3. Zak Jones - Link - Keep
5. Shane Savage - Link - Keep/trade
13. Jack Lonie - Link - Keep
14. Jarryn Geary (UFA) - Link - Retire
16. Dan Butler - Link - Keep
18. Paddy Ryder - Link - Keep
22. Nathan J. Brown - Link - Retire
23. Jack Bytel - Link - Keep
24. Logan Austin - Link - Trade/delist
27. Ryan Abbott - Link - delist
30. Ed Phillips - Link - delist
33. Ben Paton - Link - keep
34. Matthew Parker - Link - keep
38. Oscar Clavarino - Link - keep
40. Nick Hind - Link - keep
42. Jack Bell - Link - keep
43. Jonathon Marsh - Link keep/delist
45. Sam Alabakis - Link - delist
46. Doulton Langlands - Link - keep
48. Jack Mayo - Link - delist

I suspect some of these guys might be contracted, like Jones/Butler/Ryder

So let's have at it. Who are we going to:
1) Retire
2) Delist
3) Trade
4) Renew
 

ScrappyDo

Premiership Player
Mar 29, 2018
3,114
8,696
Omnipotent
AFL Club
St Kilda
1) Retire
Brownie
Gears

2) Delist
Sav
Austin
Mayo
Liquorlands (???)
Alabakis
Irish (contracted)
Dmac (contracted)

3) Trade
Ross
Lonie
Dunny
Robbo and/or Jimmy

3b)Open to offers
Carlisle
Billings
Marsh

4) Renew (1 year only)
Liquorlands (???)
Philips
Parker
Clav
Hind
Bell
Abbott (unless better available)

The rest we keep.
 

plugger66

Brownlow Medallist
Jan 10, 2011
25,672
42,055
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
Ormond AFC
1) Retire
Brownie
Gears

2) Delist
Sav
Austin
Mayo
Liquorlands (???)
Alabakis
Irish (contracted)
Dmac (contracted)

3) Trade
Ross
Lonie
Dunny
Robbo and/or Jimmy

3b)Open to offers
Carlisle
Billings
Marsh

4) Renew (1 year only)
Liquorlands (???)
Philips
Parker
Clav
Hind
Bell
Abbott (unless better available)

The rest we keep.



I’m not going to disagree but how can you disagree with me pointing out we don’t know list sizes or the salary Cap. It has a huge bearing on who goes and stays. Obviously if it didn’t change less go and it drops by 10 then 10 more have to go.
 

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FootyMaster11

Rookie
Jul 17, 2020
26
93
AFL Club
St Kilda
very interesting proposal, the depth at our club is still way off finals contention. For example, if we had the same injury list that the Eagles had, it could easily be argued that we become a bottom 6 team. I would say close to our third of our list does not even make it on to a top 4 sides list. Yet, we have to keep them because we have had so many years of poor drafting/developing that we have no other choice. Realistically these are the following that has a case as to be not up to AFL standard (I left a lot of those who haven't played a game yet because is a bit unfair to judge them when haven't seen them)

Savage
Geary
Brown-retired
Austin
Abbott
Mckenzie
Joyce
Marsh
Alabakis

These are the unknowns that may or may not work out
Connoly
Clav
Bell
Mayo
Langlands

Then we have the borderline 22 which in my opinion if were at a top 4 side would not even come close to a look in
Lonie
Kent
Hind
Webster
Phillips
Parker

As you can see we still have a lot of dead wood on our list and it will take time to clear them out but we need to continue to clear these kinds of players out as unfortunately, they are not going to take us to the next step of challenging for a flag

So to answer the question I reckon carlilse is gone in a trade, brown-retired, savage gone, webster gone, Austin, Joyce, Alabakis gone, geary should retire, but don't think he will, can see parker delisted if he doesn't get another look in this year, but will take a few years to clear out the rest.
 

ScrappyDo

Premiership Player
Mar 29, 2018
3,114
8,696
Omnipotent
AFL Club
St Kilda
I’m not going to disagree but how can you disagree with me pointing out we don’t know list sizes or the salary Cap. It has a huge bearing on who goes and stays. Obviously if it didn’t change less go and it drops by 10 then 10 more have to go.
Did you mean to quote me?

Arguments are down the corridor,
2nd door on the right.
 

plugger66

Brownlow Medallist
Jan 10, 2011
25,672
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Ormond AFC
Did you mean to quote me?

Arguments are down the corridor,
2nd door on the right.
I’m not arguing. I’m asking why you disagreed with me when I said it nearly impossible to do without list sizes or salary cap numbers. How it arguing. I actually would like to know from anyone who is doing this what they are basing the list size on because it changes the numbers. Nothing I said was arguing. For example what did you base your opinion on. 44 40 or 36 or even another number because you are smart enough to know it makes a huge difference.
 

ScrappyDo

Premiership Player
Mar 29, 2018
3,114
8,696
Omnipotent
AFL Club
St Kilda
I’m not arguing. I’m asking why you disagreed with me when I said it nearly impossible to do without list sizes or salary cap numbers. How it arguing. I actually would like to know from anyone who is doing this what they are basing the list size on because it changes the numbers. Nothing I said was arguing. For example what did you base your opinion on. 44 40 or 36 or even another number because you are smart enough to know it makes a huge difference.
Ahh, righto.
It's because the premise and contents of this thread has no bearing on reality, and it's perfectly reasonable to discuss who should be retired/traded/delisted in a public supporters forum even without knowing list sizes.

If l for example, want to name Minnie Mouse as head of football, and Porky the effin Pig at full forward, then I'm free to do so.
It's not like l need to be told that it won't happen, or that the laws of the game exclude quadrupedal participants.

That's why l disagreed. .
 

plugger66

Brownlow Medallist
Jan 10, 2011
25,672
42,055
AFL Club
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Ormond AFC
Ahh, righto.
It's because the premise and contents of this thread has no bearing on reality, and it's perfectly reasonable to discuss who should be retired/traded/delisted in a public supporters forum even without knowing list sizes.

If l for example, want to name Minnie Mouse as head of football, and Porky the effin Pig at full forward, then I'm free to do so.
It's not like l need to be told that it won't happen, or that the laws of the game exclude quadrupedal participants.

That's why l disagreed. .
Fair enough. I’d still like to know what numbers you are basing the list on. And I certainly wasn’t arguing. I know when I am. I think it will be 40 but I’m going to wait until we get an idea. I’ve got theories on who should go. All I do know is our list is no where near where it needs to be. Both of us have always our depth isn’t that good. Well I think you said that. I certainly did.
 

kernelT

Premiership Player
Aug 15, 2010
4,802
14,786
AFL Club
St Kilda
These guys looking very unlikely for next year:

Brown, Savage, Austin, Carlisle

I hope Gears does the right thing and retires, would be madness to keep him as skipper next year.

There are going to be some very lucky boys who get extensions you'd think on the mere fact that we can't replace them.

Clavarino looking like the new Lewie Pearce… how many years can he go without a game?

Abbott keeps a spot as insurance.

We'll have a serious playstation squad
McKenzie, Phillips, Langlands, Marsh, Joyce, Parker, Webster, Roberton,
 

ScrappyDo

Premiership Player
Mar 29, 2018
3,114
8,696
Omnipotent
AFL Club
St Kilda
Fair enough. I’d still like to know what numbers you are basing the list on. And I certainly wasn’t arguing. I know when I am. I think it will be 40 but I’m going to wait until we get an idea. I’ve got theories on who should go. All I do know is our list is no where near where it needs to be. Both of us have always our depth isn’t that good. Well I think you said that. I certainly did.
Yes, we agree on those points.
 

bird_man

Brownlow Medallist
Jan 14, 2012
24,204
49,784
The River Murray
AFL Club
St Kilda
Shame we don't have any draft picks coming up.

Plenty of spuds to delist and one pick inside the first 60.

That Hill trade looking worse by the week… Serong having a better season on debut.
Serong wasn't even taken with the pick we gave up for Hill, Picket was.

We used the earlier pick in a swap that ended up getting us both Hill and Howard. That pick ended up being Fisher McCasay.

As a whole we had a very good trade period and it started with getting Hill to commit to the club and snow balled from there.
 

12Chill

Premiership Player
Jun 13, 2014
4,565
9,254
AFL Club
St Kilda
Ratten said last week Geary will be playing next year and Ch7 News last night confirmed it.
He should really just retire now.

If he’s on the list next year, at the very least he should not be in the 22. Should not start in the 22 and should not be one of the first options in. He’s a liability unfortunately, we won’t get anywhere with him still on the park. Maybe Gears from 3-5 years ago, but you can’t even rely on him to shut down an oppo small forward now.

Charity 1 yr contract to drive training standards or whatever and that’s it. I will lose whatever faith I have left in this club if Gears is actually playing senior football next year.
 

kernelT

Premiership Player
Aug 15, 2010
4,802
14,786
AFL Club
St Kilda
Serong wasn't even taken with the pick we gave up for Hill, Picket was.

We used the earlier pick in a swap that ended up getting us both Hill and Howard. That pick ended up being Fisher McCasay.

As a whole we had a very good trade period and it started with getting Hill to commit to the club and snow balled from there.
Well freo slightly upgraded the pick we gave them and took serong which is looking like a solid move.

That trade period may be good on paper at the time, but if we don’t improve (go up the ladder) after throwing draft picks around like confetti then it was a failure.

Hill hasn’t got remotely close to the hype that was built up, so for Acres and 4 draft picks it’s a massive fail so far.

If Freo leapfrog us into the 8 next year we’re going to look pretty silly.
 

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