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bird_man

Brownlow Medallist
Jan 14, 2012
24,366
50,312
The River Murray
AFL Club
St Kilda
Well freo slightly upgraded the pick we gave them and took serong which is looking like a solid move.

That trade period may be good on paper at the time, but if we don’t improve (go up the ladder) after throwing draft picks around like confetti then it was a failure.

Hill hasn’t got remotely close to the hype that was built up, so for Acres and 4 draft picks it’s a massive fail so far.

If Freo leapfrog us into the 8 next year we’re going to look pretty silly.
If we don't improve?

We've gone from 5th last on the ladder with an easy draw to winning more games that we will lose and fighting for a spot on finals in a 17 games season and been in all but 2 games until the last 2 minutes .

I'd say we have improved.

We have also done this with 15 of our current 22 under 100 games.
 

BrutThough

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 2, 2010
9,096
33,959
AFL Club
St Kilda
He should really just retire now.

If he’s on the list next year, at the very least he should not be in the 22. Should not start in the 22 and should not be one of the first options in. He’s a liability unfortunately, we won’t get anywhere with him still on the park. Maybe Gears from 3-5 years ago, but you can’t even rely on him to shut down an oppo small forward now.

Charity 1 yr contract to drive training standards or whatever and that’s it. I will lose whatever faith I have left in this club if Gears is actually playing senior football next year.
We did similar with Nathan Brown this year. Give the 1 year contract to a highly respected, senior leader who drives training standards around the group with the knowledge they will have greater impact on the team and club than the very late pick who would be taking that spot instead.

And with the reduction in spending within the football department next season, having those senior figures within the playing group will be important to have around the club. Almost like playing coach type figure to help with the development. And if he earns his way into the best 22, then thats fantastic. No faith lost from me there. If he is playing well enough, then he has every right to be playing.

I would be very disappointed if he remains Captain as I think it is time to give it to someone younger to be the captain as this new group comes through, but the people who see what he does around the club want him around for another year and that's good enough for me.
 

kernelT

Premiership Player
Aug 15, 2010
4,837
14,972
AFL Club
St Kilda
If we don't improve?

We've gone from 5th last on the ladder with an easy draw to winning more games that we will lose and fighting for a spot on finals in a 17 games season and been in all but 2 games until the last 2 minutes .

I'd say we have improved.

We have also done this with 15 of our current 22 under 100 games.
If you take in a broad view, we may not be much better than we have been over the past few years.

The short season is a blessing for us because we are looking less likely to play finals by the week. Add another 5 games and we are nowhere near the 8 after winning 2 of our last 6, this is with an extremely good run with injuries compared to other clubs.

We were sitting 2nd on the ladder in round 5 last year too, but fell away just like this year.

There's plenty to like about our younger players improvement, but there's no guarantee we're heading up the ladder in the next year or two… which would be a failure given the way we've recruited. Last night and the Melbourne games were damning, unable to find a way to beat decimated sides who are also short on the day. Kent, Long, King, Battle, Hind, Wilkie, Geary, Jones… That's a lot of your side still under-performing when it counts most, only King can hold up a youth card in that lot.

You don't dish out first and second rounders on mature players and not expect to improve significantly in the near future, if we cop a belting next week and finish 10th then last years recruitment boon is going to be on the nose.
 

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kernelT

Premiership Player
Aug 15, 2010
4,837
14,972
AFL Club
St Kilda
We did similar with Nathan Brown this year. Give the 1 year contract to a highly respected, senior leader who drives training standards around the group with the knowledge they will have greater impact on the team and club than the very late pick who would be taking that spot instead.

And with the reduction in spending within the football department next season, having those senior figures within the playing group will be important to have around the club. Almost like playing coach type figure to help with the development. And if he earns his way into the best 22, then thats fantastic. No faith lost from me there. If he is playing well enough, then he has every right to be playing.

I would be very disappointed if he remains Captain as I think it is time to give it to someone younger to be the captain as this new group comes through, but the people who see what he does around the club want him around for another year and that's good enough for me.
Does Brown get his 300 clams after walking out half way through the season?

Not sure if I would look to that extension as a good thing, understanding that COVID has made the year very different.

Prefer we look for another Sam Collins or even a Hartley type than give a list spot to someone past it who trains well.
 

BrutThough

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 2, 2010
9,096
33,959
AFL Club
St Kilda
Does Brown get his 300 clams after walking out half way through the season?

Not sure if I would look to that extension as a good thing, understanding that COVID has made the year very different.

Prefer we look for another Sam Collins or even a Hartley type than give a list spot to someone past it who trains well.
We can fill one of the 10 other list spots we will have with a Collins or Hartley type if they are out there.

Giving Geary a spot that would otherwise be filled with someone who was never going to play a senior game and get 10 disposals at Sandy isn't going to harm the club moving forward.
 

kernelT

Premiership Player
Aug 15, 2010
4,837
14,972
AFL Club
St Kilda
We can fill one of the 10 other list spots we will have with a Collins or Hartley type if they are out there.

Giving Geary a spot that would otherwise be filled with someone who was never going to play a senior game and get 10 disposals at Sandy isn't going to harm the club moving forward.
Not sold on these old wise trainers actually helping us win games of football. This year we've had Brown, Geary, Roberton and Hanners bringing their leadership without playing much football… doesn't seem to help us win close games, even with Gears on the field our leadership is coming from Steele, Marshall and Ryder.

Gears has dropped off in most areas and looks to be struggling with pace, just call it a day at an incredible 200+ games.
 

BrutThough

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 2, 2010
9,096
33,959
AFL Club
St Kilda
Not sold on these old wise trainers actually helping us win games of football. This year we've had Brown, Geary, Roberton and Hanners bringing their leadership without playing much football… doesn't seem to help us win close games, even with Gears on the field our leadership is coming from Steele, Marshall and Ryder.

Gears has dropped off in most areas and looks to be struggling with pace, just call it a day at an incredible 200+ games.
For young gun Jade Gresham, Geary has clearly been much more than a teammate and captain.

“He was the guy I roomed with at pre-season camp just after I first arrived at the club and he’s looked after me ever since,” he said.

“He lets you know when your standards aren’t up to it, when you haven’t run well enough in the time trial for example.

“He gives you a bit of tough love for a day or two, but then he’s the first to get around you and make you know that he is going to help you get better.

I feel like he has taken me under his win, but I think a lot of guys would say the same thing".




I'm going to say those within the club have a better idea what he brings to the playing group and around the club than we do.
 

kernelT

Premiership Player
Aug 15, 2010
4,837
14,972
AFL Club
St Kilda
I'm going to say those within the club have a better idea what he brings to the playing group and around the club than we do.
Same ******* plonkers who decided against bringing Carlisle back to face the best tall forward combo in the league… but thought Geary was a better option.

One flag in 150 years says this club isn't above questioning.
 

gringo2011

Hall of Famer
Nov 12, 2011
32,048
76,481
Melbourne
AFL Club
St Kilda
Serong wasn't even taken with the pick we gave up for Hill, Picket was.

We used the earlier pick in a swap that ended up getting us both Hill and Howard. That pick ended up being Fisher McCasay.

As a whole we had a very good trade period and it started with getting Hill to commit to the club and snow balled from there.

We could have taken him though, just swapped our first (pick 6) with GWS to turn the pick into 2 firsts to get Howard and Hill. So it's Howard and Hill plus Ryan Byrnes for Serong, Acres and a 2nd and 4th round pick this year.

It will either be genius or a fu** up. Time will tell. We also paid for Hanners at that draft so I think Will Gould was our original pick that was traded to Adelaide.
 

kernelT

Premiership Player
Aug 15, 2010
4,837
14,972
AFL Club
St Kilda
We paid a similar price for Hill to what west coast did for Kelly...

If you double brads output, make half of his possessions contested, add 8 clearances and a goal then they had similar impact last night.
 

BrutThough

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 2, 2010
9,096
33,959
AFL Club
St Kilda
We could have taken him though, just swapped our first (pick 6) with GWS to turn the pick into 2 firsts to get Howard and Hill. So it's Howard and Hill plus Ryan Byrnes for Serong, Acres and a 2nd and 4th round pick this year.

It will either be genius or a fu** up. Time will tell. We also paid for Hanners at that draft so I think Will Gould was our original pick that was traded to Adelaide.
You're heading into David King redoing the draft territory here
 

bird_man

Brownlow Medallist
Jan 14, 2012
24,366
50,312
The River Murray
AFL Club
St Kilda
We paid a similar price for Hill to what west coast did for Kelly...

If you double brads output, make half of his possessions contested, add 8 clearances and a goal then they had similar impact last night.
We also got Zak Jones and Ryan Byrnes for Josh Bruce

Also Butler for the pick that got Richmond Biggie Nyoun

Howard for the equivalent of an early 2nd

I'm pretty happy with the way it all went.
 

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Virgin Dog

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 29, 2017
5,922
10,083
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Thoughts on Lonie's worth? Article on Foxsports says we're chasing him. Earlier in the year I didn't think it would be a bad idea given we need pressure smalls, but I'm pretty convinced we already have a player like that now (Cavarra). Regardless, keen to hear what people think a Lonie trade would actually look like, because I feel my own valuation is probably way off (don't rate him much at all, wouldn't be happy with anything above a late 3rd rounder, but I also recognise that could be off the mark)
 

gringo2011

Hall of Famer
Nov 12, 2011
32,048
76,481
Melbourne
AFL Club
St Kilda
You're heading into David King redoing the draft territory here

How did I do that? I have put down the trades in comparison. We traded out of pick 6 which we could have used at the draft. Time will tell if it worked or not. To me we had to do something like Melbourne did when they gave up Josh Kelly's pick for Dom Tyson and Christian Salem. It didn't work out but to avoid a riot by fans they just needed instant hope.

We need to start picking from the first round still or we won't find any of our own guns and will have to keep paying overs for anything like a quality player.
 

saint_

Club Legend
May 6, 2015
1,243
2,296
AFL Club
St Kilda
Thoughts on Lonie's worth? Article on Foxsports says we're chasing him. Earlier in the year I didn't think it would be a bad idea given we need pressure smalls, but I'm pretty convinced we already have a player like that now (Cavarra). Regardless, keen to hear what people think a Lonie trade would actually look like, because I feel my own valuation is probably way off (don't rate him much at all, wouldn't be happy with anything above a late 3rd rounder, but I also recognise that could be off the mark)
Around pick 50-60 at best.
 

gringo2011

Hall of Famer
Nov 12, 2011
32,048
76,481
Melbourne
AFL Club
St Kilda
Thoughts on Lonie's worth? Article on Foxsports says we're chasing him. Earlier in the year I didn't think it would be a bad idea given we need pressure smalls, but I'm pretty convinced we already have a player like that now (Cavarra). Regardless, keen to hear what people think a Lonie trade would actually look like, because I feel my own valuation is probably way off (don't rate him much at all, wouldn't be happy with anything above a late 3rd rounder, but I also recognise that could be off the mark)

If compared to Bruce's trade probably a pick in the 90s. You guys are worse than Essendon these days.
 

Browny2Carlisle

Club Legend
May 2, 2017
2,001
5,873
AFL Club
St Kilda
Thoughts on Lonie's worth? Article on Foxsports says we're chasing him. Earlier in the year I didn't think it would be a bad idea given we need pressure smalls, but I'm pretty convinced we already have a player like that now (Cavarra). Regardless, keen to hear what people think a Lonie trade would actually look like, because I feel my own valuation is probably way off (don't rate him much at all, wouldn't be happy with anything above a late 3rd rounder, but I also recognise that could be off the mark)
I suppose we can give you a 3rd rounder to take him from us
 

Virgin Dog

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 29, 2017
5,922
10,083
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Around pick 50-60 at best.
Yeah sounds about right. Must just be one of those classic "you probably won't get games with us anymore, Dogs are willing to take you on and give more opportunity"
If compared to Bruce's trade probably a pick in the 90s. You guys are worse than Essendon these days.
Yeah Power was pretty brutal in the offseason - we've always been 100% fair beforehand, but he was insistent on keeping that 1st rounder I guess. We got Bruce for unders, but Keath was an absolute pisstake. On current ladder positions, it's ended up being Keath + Pick 38 <> Pick 29 + Pick 45 (Keath valued at Pick 35). Crows must be fuming
 

Enclosed_Animal

Club Legend
Jun 14, 2015
1,034
7,738
Sandringham
AFL Club
St Kilda
Thoughts on Lonie's worth? Article on Foxsports says we're chasing him. Earlier in the year I didn't think it would be a bad idea given we need pressure smalls, but I'm pretty convinced we already have a player like that now (Cavarra). Regardless, keen to hear what people think a Lonie trade would actually look like, because I feel my own valuation is probably way off (don't rate him much at all, wouldn't be happy with anything above a late 3rd rounder, but I also recognise that could be off the mark)
We have no second or third this year, and I am guessing we will be trying to manufacture at least one pick in there somewhere.

If we could do a swap with your 2020 2nd or 3rd for our 2021 2nd or 3rd, with Lonie as some form of steak knives in the calculations, that might make us pretty happy.

You do need points for your AFL approved Academy gift though. So most likely he just walks to you as a DFA (same way Newnes did to Carlton). On recent form, cant see us pushing too hard on this
 
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bird_man

Brownlow Medallist
Jan 14, 2012
24,366
50,312
The River Murray
AFL Club
St Kilda
Thoughts on Lonie's worth? Article on Foxsports says we're chasing him. Earlier in the year I didn't think it would be a bad idea given we need pressure smalls, but I'm pretty convinced we already have a player like that now (Cavarra). Regardless, keen to hear what people think a Lonie trade would actually look like, because I feel my own valuation is probably way off (don't rate him much at all, wouldn't be happy with anything above a late 3rd rounder, but I also recognise that could be off the mark)
We couldn't expect any more than a 3rd round pick
 

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