Analysis Saints Footy - what is our brand?

Joffaboy

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#26
The reality is we don't have a star studded list by any measure though. It might change as we grow in confidence and output but right now we have probably the least high profile list besides Gold Coast.

I don't care what it loos like on paper either if we keep winning. Collingwood came from nowhere and besides their stars no one rated their list a couple of years ago, now they are premiership favourites.

I didn't say particularly against Essendon that we play on our terms but that to me is part of our brand. We try to dictate the tempo and bring the oppositions best traits out of the game.
The conversation, from my perspective was not about who has champions on the list.
I doubt anybody would disagree that we don't currently have a star studded team.

My objection was to the inference that the team is dragging other teams down and therefore by definition to an inferior level of football.

I don't believe that is the case at all. If this conversation was last season, yes that would be the case.

But this season from the available evidence I would argue we are beating teams with superior defensive structures and play.
Of the four games, JLT and H@A we have won every tackle count.

We have brought in speed and maturity with Parker, Kent, and Wilkie and have played the likes of Gres, Lonie, Sinclair, even Parker, rotating through the mids.

Our defence has stood up very well and really stopped run from the opposition.

I think IMO to underplay the change of play and infer were are inferior is to undervalue the team as a whole.

Are they a top 8 team? maybe, top 4? Probably not. Are they a negative team that drags teams down to a supposed inferior style of play? In my opinion, no they are not.
 

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MUFKilda

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#27
The conversation, from my perspective was not about who has champions on the list.
I doubt anybody would disagree that we don't currently have a star studded team.

My objection was to the inference that the team is dragging other teams down and therefore by definition to an inferior level of football.

I don't believe that is the case at all. If this conversation was last season, yes that would be the case.

But this season from the available evidence I would argue we are beating teams with superior defensive structures and play.
Of the four games, JLT and H@A we have won every tackle count.

We have brought in speed and maturity with Parker, Kent, and Wilkie and have played the likes of Gres, Lonie, Sinclair, even Parker, rotating through the mids.

Our defence has stood up very well and really stopped run from the opposition.

I think IMO to underplay the change of play and infer were are inferior is to undervalue the team as a whole.

Are they a top 8 team? maybe, top 4? Probably not. Are they a negative team that drags teams down to a supposed inferior style of play? In my opinion, no they are not.
In Gringo's defence mate he did put a question mark after 'bringing teams down to our level', meaning he was wondering if that's what Saints will do against teams who are supposed to be better on paper. I don't think he was making a definitive claim that that is how Saints will get wins; more a possible debate to be had.
 

Joffaboy

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#28
In Gringo's defence mate he did put a question mark after 'bringing teams down to our level', meaning he was wondering if that's what Saints will do against teams who are supposed to be better on paper. I don't think he was making a definitive claim that that is how Saints will get wins; more a possible debate to be had.
Didn't see that ? so fair enough, I would still argue my position even with that knowledge.
 
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#30
The reality is we don't have a star studded list by any measure though. It might change as we grow in confidence and output but right now we have probably the least high profile list besides Gold Coast.

I don't care what it loos like on paper either if we keep winning. Collingwood came from nowhere and besides their stars no one rated their list a couple of years ago, now they are premiership favourites.

I didn't say particularly against Essendon that we play on our terms but that to me is part of our brand. We try to dictate the tempo and bring the oppositions best traits out of the game.
You gonna tell me that Steven, Ross, Billings, Gresham and Steele isn't a seriously talented midfield? Sinclair, Newnes, Acres, Lonie, Dunn all do their bit too. I think we've actually finally constructed a very competitive midfield that's capable of winning and also using the ball well. No need to try and chop down the tall poppies this time.
 

gringo2011

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#33
You gonna tell me that Steven, Ross, Billings, Gresham and Steele isn't a seriously talented midfield? Sinclair, Newnes, Acres, Lonie, Dunn all do their bit too. I think we've actually finally constructed a very competitive midfield that's capable of winning and also using the ball well. No need to try and chop down the tall poppies this time.

Getting better all the time. Gresham was okay last week and excellent this week for his 2 games playing predominantly midfield. Probably still need a player like Oliver who wins a heap of inside ball and dishes out the runners. If you asked neutral supporters what they thought of our midfield they wouldn't rate them compared to the good sides.

Who are the tall poppies and who cut them down? I just suggested we are blue collar and hard working. We are a very low profile team. Apart from Stuv most wouldn't know who our midfielders were. We probably only beat Goldy as far as highly rated players go. I don't know why that is so upsetting to some.

Hopefully this year we have 4 or 5 players who bridge the gap between good and excellent so I can retract it all.
 

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#34
Yes. Therefore every team tries to stop the opposition playing their best with tactics, who knew?

You can try what ever you want, I think this year we are playing on our terms. Essendon might have tried but they didn't, Bulldogs, North and GC the same. I thought GC was the only one that actually started playing the game on their terms in the second half of last weeks game. One minute I'm too negative about the side, next I make a positive statement and you try to rubbish that. You can't decide what to be angry about Goldilocks.
 

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#35
It’s one thing being a “pressure” team but, let’s face it, we’ve been saying we're a pressure team for years.

The difference so far this year is it looks much more structured behind the ball and our players are always seeming aware about keeping our structures in place at all times.

The good news is the best “pressure” teams of the past few years played like that, from the Bulldogs to Richmond and Collingwood.

In my mind, the narrative about these teams often focuses on the pressure part of things instead of the disciplined choreographed defensive zones that have underpinned all of these great pressure teams.

The above is key as it conserves energy, makes you harder to score against generally and keeps opposition teams in front of you as much as possible. You also get energy from actually sticking tackles more often as well.

We are tracking very nicely right now as a collective. We are more controlled in our pressure. And, I have a gut feel we will be able to re-produce it week on week because it is mentally and physically less taxing to play like we are now and we will recover better game-to-game rather than relying on a herculean collective physical effort and it being an “all-or-nothing” things for us.
 
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plugger66

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#36
It’s one thing being a “pressure” team but, let’s face it, we’ve been saying we'e a pressure team for years.

The difference so far this year is it looks much more structured behind the ball and our players are always seeming aware about keeping our structures in place at all times.

The good news is the best “pressure” teams of the past few years played like that, from the Bulldogs to Richmond and Collingwood.

In my mind, the narrative about these teams often focuses on the pressure part of things instead of the disciplined choreographed defensive zones that have underpinned all of these great pressure teams.

The above is key as it conserves energy, makes you harder to score against generally and keeps opposition teams in front of you as much as possible. You also get energy from actually sticking tackles more often as well.

We are tracking very nicely right now as a collective. We are more controlled in our pressure. And, I have a gut feel we will be able to re-produce it week on week because it is mentally and physically less taxing to play like we are now and we will recover better game-to-game rather than relying on a herculean collective physical effort and it being an “all-or-nothing” things for us.
The thing is we weren’t a pressure team last year for some strange reason that I think we will never work out. We certainly were the 2 years before that. I know it’s something I keep harping on about but the recruitment of smaller to medium size forwards and one less tall helps with pressure. Last year we were forced to play paddy for more experience which didn’t help
 

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NarklesHelmet

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#37
The thing is we weren’t a pressure team last year for some strange reason that I think we will never work out. We certainly were the 2 years before that. I know it’s something I keep harping on about but the recruitment of smaller to medium size forwards and one less tall helps with pressure. Last year we were forced to play paddy for more experience which didn’t help
Yeah I agree.

Playing Paddy last year and no Bruce or Roo (who are great with their pressure even as big men) threw everything out of whack. You just can't carry talls like that anymore, especially if you want to play a pressure style.
 

BrutThough

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#38
Mantra this off-season has been to 'build the pressure'. It was plastered along the walls of the change rooms on Saturday night and FoxFooty picked up vision of the boys each hitting the sign on their way out onto the ground.

Speed by foot. Limit handball. Apply immense pressure.
I loved that in the footage, all the coaches were also touching the sign.
Just shows how united the whole club is to improving together.
 

majortinkle

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#39
The thing is we weren’t a pressure team last year for some strange reason that I think we will never work out. We certainly were the 2 years before that. I know it’s something I keep harping on about but the recruitment of smaller to medium size forwards and one less tall helps with pressure. Last year we were forced to play paddy for more experience which didn’t help
I don’t disagree but haven’t we ‘lost’ the pressure battle the last 2 weeks - both marginally but if it is our brand you’d like to think that when we win that’s the reason why wouldn’t you?
 

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#40
I don’t disagree but haven’t we ‘lost’ the pressure battle the last 2 weeks - both marginally but if it is our brand you’d like to think that when we win that’s the reason why wouldn’t you?
I really don’t care about the pressure stats because they measure the whole ground. All I know with watching live is our pressure up forward has been huge. And like a kick. There is good and bad kicks just as I’m sure there is pressure that causes a turnover and ones that don’t
 

gringo2011

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#41
I really don’t care about the pressure stats because they measure the whole ground. All I know with watching live is our pressure up forward has been huge. And like a kick. There is good and bad kicks just as I’m sure there is pressure that causes a turnover and ones that don’t

Yeah, you see a lot more inferred pressure in footy these days where teams rush their disposals under the threat of pressure. We feel a lot more like we have upped our pressure and tempo when we don't have possession.
 

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#42
Conservative in the backline.

Get the ball forward. More important that it’s going forward than how well it’s delivered then pressure once the ball hits the deck.

I think we’ve got a decent game plan now but for god sake we need to just stick to it. Feels like sometimes AFL teams try and reinvent the wheel over the preseason and it can backfire horribly like it did for us last year and Essendon this year. What we’re doing works just in time need to sort out the entries inside 50 and improve the midfield.
 

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Moderator #43
This excerpt from the AFL match review statement:

"Patrick Ambrose, Essendon, has been charged with Engaging in a Melee during the second quarter of the Round Two match between Essendon and St Kilda, played at Marvel Stadium on Saturday March 30.

In summary, he can accept a $1,000 sanction with an early plea.

A first offence for Engaging in a Melee is a $1,500 sanction. An early plea enables the player to accept a $1,000 sanction.

Conor McKenna, Essendon, has been charged with Engaging in a Melee during the second quarter of the Round Two match between Essendon and St Kilda, played at Marvel Stadium on Saturday March 30.

In summary, he can accept a $1,000 sanction with an early plea.

A first offence for Engaging in a Melee is a $1,500 sanction. An early plea enables the player to accept a $1,000 sanction.

Josh Bruce, St Kilda, has been charged with engaging in a melee during the second quarter of the Round Two match between Essendon and St Kilda, played at Marvel Stadium on Saturday March 30.

In summary, he can accept a $1,000 sanction with an early plea.

A first offence for engaging in a melee is a $1,500 sanction. An early plea enables the player to accept a $1,000 sanction.

Jack Steele, St Kilda, has been charged with engaging in Rough Conduct against Jake Stringer, Essendonduring the second quarter of the Round Two match between Essendon and St Kilda, played at Marvel Stadium on Saturday March 30.

In summary he can accept a $2000 sanction with an early plea.

Based on the available evidence, the incident was assessed as Intentional Conduct with Low Impact to the Body. The incident was classified as a $3000 sanction as a first offence. The player can accept a $2000 sanction with an early plea.

Dean Kent, St Kilda, has been charged with striking Aaron Francis, Essendon during the third quarter of the Round Two match between Essendon and St Kilda, played at Marvel Stadium on Saturday March 30.

In summary he can accept a $3000 sanction with an early plea.

Based on the available evidence, the incident was assessed as Careless Conduct with Low Impact and High Contact. The incident was classified as a $5000 sanction as a second offence. The player can accept a $3000 sanction with an early plea."


It looks as if the AFL is coming down hard on Saints footy and only fined Essendon once they stopped taking it like a bitch.
 

austinnn

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#44
Saints team has meant pressure for years, certainly all with Richardson and Lyon.

I suspect last year was an anomaly but will wait and see how this season pans out before I'm sure. We all know the players and coaches got spooked in the rd 2 against north and didn't have adequate leadership to respond effectively, and this is what I'm watching for this season: so far we're 2/2 and not much has gone wrong. We've been challenged in games and responded, which is the first test passed. But how will we respond if/when we get pumped? Will Richie know what to do? Will the leaders step up? Who will calm the nerves of the newer players who are feeling pressure like never before?

Personally, I think we'll deal with it much better this season, via both the Slater/Hannebury/Ratten Effect, but also the needed maturity of our players. As I have previously stated, we decided to develop our gameplan with Playfair and tweak transition with Kingsley simultaneously managing the vacuum in leadership that the retirement of Dempster, Montagna and Riewoldt inevitably left; in hindsight a catastrophic case of bad timing. But having been through that, the continued development of the game plan and leadership will ultimately make us a stronger unit. Maybe 2018 was the year we had to have.

Structure and pressure seem to be our brand this year, getting the skilled players onto the ball more, and bringing in mature aged speedsters gives us strength up front to take the pressure off our key forwards Bruce and Membrey.

We'll probably never be a highly polished skills based team, but what we are being groomed to be is tenacious, consistent, aggressive, direct - much like our captain! Time will tell if it works, I suspect we'll need a little more to beat the best but it should at least get us a ticket to the dance.
 

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#45
Do you think our list looks as good as the best sides? Essendon's list is much better. Our midfield was Dunstan, Steele, Gresham and Billings for the most part with guys like Newnes and Sinclair getting on to a wing. Essendon have Heppell, Zaka, Merrett, Shiel and Smith. That looks a much more desirable list.

We work hard for our wins and play a team game. I could lie and say they are all the champions of the competition but it's not reality. I don't see why you think that's throwing shade. I don't mind being an average list with a big heart.
i think Heppell is the most overrated captain in the afl . hes a handy player but thats all imo . I think he has the looks people like with his blonde hair etc but the reality is i would take Geary over him every day of the week . The amount of times ive seen Heppell go missing in tough games , im surprised no one in the media has mentioned it yet . Of course this is all my opinion and im no expert but i think Heppell gets a dream run from the media . Shiel still has to prove himself as a top player . He looked good playing for GWS with their top mids along side but now we will see if he really is as good as people thought. Merrett is a great player who is just going through one of those patches , it happens to most at some stage . Zaka seems to be either really good or really bad . I dont know that much about Smith .

Steele , Gresham and Billings are playing better than any essendon mids at the moment . Dunstan , whipping boy for many , has been going in hard and has actually hurt a few opponents already this season. I think the coaches would be pleased with what Dunstan has done so far this season . Having said that they will probably drop him this week lol. Newnes and Sinclair both seem to have rediscovered their form and fitness . But its only round three coming up so we will see how everything pans out .
 

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#47
i think Heppell is the most overrated captain in the afl . hes a handy player but thats all imo . I think he has the looks people like with his blonde hair etc but the reality is i would take Geary over him every day of the week . The amount of times ive seen Heppell go missing in tough games , im surprised no one in the media has mentioned it yet . Of course this is all my opinion and im no expert but i think Heppell gets a dream run from the media . Shiel still has to prove himself as a top player . He looked good playing for GWS with their top mids along side but now we will see if he really is as good as people thought. Merrett is a great player who is just going through one of those patches , it happens to most at some stage . Zaka seems to be either really good or really bad . I dont know that much about Smith .

Steele , Gresham and Billings are playing better than any essendon mids at the moment . Dunstan , whipping boy for many , has been going in hard and has actually hurt a few opponents already this season. I think the coaches would be pleased with what Dunstan has done so far this season . Having said that they will probably drop him this week lol. Newnes and Sinclair both seem to have rediscovered their form and fitness . But its only round three coming up so we will see how everything pans out .

Heppell is a very good to excellent player, but I think it's fair to say he's soft and too focussed on his image. I think Essendon play a brand like that, too much time in front of the mirror and always outside the tough stuff when it's time to go.

Saints are a brand similar to Geary too, hard at every contest, not naturally gifted but have a proper crack. Bit messy with disposal but hearts the size of a lion.
 
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#48
i think Heppell is the most overrated captain in the afl . hes a handy player but thats all imo . I think he has the looks people like with his blonde hair etc but the reality is i would take Geary over him every day of the week . The amount of times ive seen Heppell go missing in tough games , im surprised no one in the media has mentioned it yet . Of course this is all my opinion and im no expert but i think Heppell gets a dream run from the media . Shiel still has to prove himself as a top player . He looked good playing for GWS with their top mids along side but now we will see if he really is as good as people thought. Merrett is a great player who is just going through one of those patches , it happens to most at some stage . Zaka seems to be either really good or really bad . I dont know that much about Smith .

Steele , Gresham and Billings are playing better than any essendon mids at the moment . Dunstan , whipping boy for many , has been going in hard and has actually hurt a few opponents already this season. I think the coaches would be pleased with what Dunstan has done so far this season . Having said that they will probably drop him this week lol. Newnes and Sinclair both seem to have rediscovered their form and fitness . But its only round three coming up so we will see how everything pans out .
Heppell has a head like a smashed crab, hidden under those appalling dreadlocks. He isn't a captain's bootlace. If he can't be a captain, at least look like one. Fails miserably on both counts.
 

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#49
You gonna tell me that Steven, Ross, Billings, Gresham and Steele isn't a seriously talented midfield? Sinclair, Newnes, Acres, Lonie, Dunn all do their bit too. I think we've actually finally constructed a very competitive midfield that's capable of winning and also using the ball well. No need to try and chop down the tall poppies this time.
i agree but who is Dunn ?
 
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