List Mgmt. Saints (French) Foreign Legion

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old55

Club Legend
Feb 12, 2011
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MFC have probably 7 best 22 from other clubs: May, Lever, Hibberd, Langdon, B.Brown, Melksham, Tomlinson

Plus M.Brown and maybe Hore (although he was Collingwood VFL only) on the list.
 

Armitage2Riewoldt

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May 23, 2008
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The question will be whether the coach can get all these blokes playing cohesive team footy or whether it will be a collection of individuals.
I was concerned how this would go this year - Ryder/Marshall combo being the biggest concern but boy were most of us wrong about that. Hanners popping in and out of the side - adding 4 others to our best 22 (2 of which went on to finish 2nd and 3rd in our B&F).

I was seriously impressed with how cohesive we looked a side at times this year (notably the wins against the Dogs, Tigers and Port which were arguably 2 of our best wins in the last decade).

Funilly enough our biggest name recruit was the one that struggled the most. But that also means he has the biggest upside.

A fit Hanners (fingers crossed), a fit Gresh (missed half the year), Crouch coming in and Hunter Clark taking another step into the midfield. Certainly changes up the dynamic a lot.

Got most Saints fans pretty excited though.
 

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TassieSaint

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I was stoked to be back in finals this year but I am concerned about the ceiling this group has without additional star power, which we're running out of money/picks to trade for. Unlike a lot of sports where you can entirely construct a side through trade/FA, every AFL premiership side has been built from a core of players drafted to that club. Even Hawthorn although they had a lot of top up players during the threepeat, the core was still guys who were drafted there.

I think to push us over the edge we need a lot of improvement to come from guys like Gresham, Clark, Billings and Coffield.
 
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Kwality

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I was stoked to be back in finals this year but I am concerned about the ceiling this group has without additional star power, which we're running out of money/picks to trade for. Unlike a lot of sports where you can entirely construct a side through trade/FA, every AFL premiership side has been built from a core of players drafted to that club. Even Hawthorn although they had a lot of top up players during the threepeat, the core was still guys who were drafted there. I think to push us over the edge we need a lot of improvement to come from guys like Gresham, Clark, Billings and Corfield.
The 80-120 game player group are usually the improvers ...
 

st_trav_ofWA

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recently yes bringing in guys like Crouch Hill Ryder Jones that has been bringing in established players to fill holes in the list but when you look at guys like Membrey or Steele these guys were far from established at their original clubs and while technically not "homegrown" they did only become AFL quality players after the Saits did their development
 

fnerd

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After so many years out of finals saints needed to make them urgently... they couldn’t afford another couple years in the wilderness, hence so many imports.

unfortunately not enoughA graders in their home grown players for the policy to be truly succ

Semi final at best squad
 

juss

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I'm thinking the Saints current list Is the most interesting in the comp.

Consider this.

In their best 22 u have:

Carlisle Howard Hill Steele Jones Higgins Butler Membrey Ryder Hannerbery Crouch.

That's 11 blokes.

Half the side.

Throw in Kent, McKernan and Frawley as 3 emergencies.

The last decade of premiership sides have had between 2 and 6 players recruited from outside.

Now this makes sense. The old model of draft kids and build a side is much bloody harder since GC and GWS have managed to dominate the draft and been gifted young talent.

Some clubs like Demons and Blues have tried the old model and found it hard.

Some clubs like Geelong have rejected it outright.

Now GWS and GC are competitive no doubt this model will return with glory. The Swans are now going back to this for example.

But in the here and now, do the Saints have it right??

If they sneak a flag it will be with half a side of recruits.

Not saying they won't.. Just saying it would be a huge difference from the recent norm.

Bloody interested to find out.

Thoughts on this ?
If I had to make a prediction now to be on record, I'd say this model will lead to them being competitive and win some finals with that list, but I dont think its the way to a flag.

Time will tell, but thatd be my call.
 

PJays

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unfortunately not enoughA graders in their home grown players for the policy to be truly succ

Semi final at best squad
That depends how many of King, Gresham, Howard, Wilkie, Butler, Marshall, Clark, Coffield, Battle, Paton etc become A graders.

I'm quietly confident 2 or 3 of that group will. Add to Steele, and combined with the depth on our list and we'll have enough for a serious flag tilt.
 

Enclosed_Animal

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Jun 14, 2015
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The 80-120 game player group are usually the improvers ...
Interesting take. For us next year, those in the best 22 would be:
Membery
Z.Jones
Steele
Crouch (outlier because of injury)
Gresham

Personally I would have said 50 -100 (commentators always seem to say 50, and I feel like 3-5 years in the system and playing AFL is about right).
That would have added:
Butler
Howard
Marshall
Clark
Long
Wilkie
Coffield
Battle
Paton
Higgins (although he is fringe 22)

That means of our best 22, approx 14 will be between 50 and 150 games next year. Pretty confident in the core of that group (along with Billings, Hill and Max King) to take us forward across the next 5 years.

As noted above, the age thing is just skewed because we are running 3 list spots short. Add in the 2 or 3 18-21 year olds we will take mid season after looking at exposed form (and take out Frawley and McKernan who were added for depth), and we are back to being close to the youngest side again.

We tried going pretty much all kids between 2011 and 2016ish. I absolutely did not work and we spent a decade wandering around aimlessly. Pretty sure 99% of Saints fans are very comfortable with the current strategy
 

Kwality

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Interesting take. For us next year, those in the best 22 would be:
Membery
Z.Jones
Steele
Crouch (outlier because of injury)
Gresham

Personally I would have said 50 -100 (commentators always seem to say 50, and I feel like 3-5 years in the system and playing AFL is about right).
That would have added:
Butler
Howard
Marshall
Clark
Long
Wilkie
Coffield
Battle
Paton
Higgins (although he is fringe 22)

That means of our best 22, approx 14 will be between 50 and 150 games next year. Pretty confident in the core of that group (along with Billings, Hill and Max King) to take us forward across the next 5 years.

As noted above, the age thing is just skewed because we are running 3 list spots short. Add in the 2 or 3 18-21 year olds we will take mid season after looking at exposed form (and take out Frawley and McKernan who were added for depth), and we are back to being close to the youngest side again.

We tried going pretty much all kids between 2011 and 2016ish. I absolutely did not work and we spent a decade wandering around aimlessly. Pretty sure 99% of Saints fans are very comfortable with the current strategy
My comment was about when you can get 'break out' years, its no guarantee.
 

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st_trav_ofWA

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After so many years out of finals saints needed to make them urgently... they couldn’t afford another couple years in the wilderness, hence so many imports.

unfortunately not enoughA graders in their home grown players for the policy to be truly succ

Semi final at best squad
Rowan Marshall says hello
Max King says hello
Hunter Clarke says hello
Nick Coffield says hello
Jade Gresham says hello

5 players all on the verge of being A graders plus the likes of Jack Steele who is fast becoming elite
 

PJays

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We tried going pretty much all kids between 2011 and 2016ish. I absolutely did not work and we spent a decade wandering around aimlessly. Pretty sure 99% of Saints fans are very comfortable with the current strategy
Not entirely. We spent 3 years winding down the team, letting Goddard and Dal Santo go in the process. By 2013 we still had the 5th oldest team from memory. After Milne, Kosi and Blake retired, we were suddenly a team made up mostly of young players and hit rock bottom in the 2nd half of the 2014 season.

I think our strategy was sound- there was no point bringing in any older players at that point, we still had Riewoldt, Montagna, Fisher, Dempster, Schneider for veteran presence. We just made a crucial mistake (McCartin over Petracca) and got unlucky (McCartin, Roberton, Longer, Stevens all having career ended by weird injuries), and it was also the remnants of the strategy of the Lyon era. We hadn't been developing kids from 2008- 2011, so in 2014 onwards we had a gap, a lack of quality players entering their primes. All these things contributed to our 9 years without finals.
 

aussierulesrules

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Semi final at best squad
Would be pretty damn unusual for a team that fielded on average the 3rd youngest team in the comp, with a core young group coming through together, and NONE of the top 7 in the B&F over the age of 26, to have peaked (having made the semis last season).

Especially when they have a guy who, all-things-being-equal, looks like being a "superstar" key forward, who has barely scratched the surface of what he's capable of.

To me it defies all common sense and logic to suggest that this team has peaked.
 
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aussierulesrules

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I was stoked to be back in finals this year but I am concerned about the ceiling this group has without additional star power, which we're running out of money/picks to trade for.
Given the fact we just won a final and were then generally highly competitive against the eventual premier in the semi (expected scores 77 to 72, had both teams kicked at the league average, from where they had their shots), despite being so much further from full strength than them, and have since added Crouch and Higgins, I don't think we're as far away as most probably think.

Especially if King in particular has a relatively good run at it over the next 2-3 years. If he does I expect he'll start ripping games apart by next year, if not this year.

To the team we lost the semi with, we potentially add all of the following to our team this year:
Crouch, Gresham, Ryder, Carlisle, Long and Higgins!

As for free cap space, it's entirely possible that Roberton and Dunstan are taking up as much as a million of the salary cap this year, and they'll likely both be off the books by this time next year. We'll then likely be able to shed Webster's probable $400K one at the end of next year, and Hannebery's $800K PA contract will also end then.

Then there's the fact that Seb Ross is eligible for FA this year, and if we happen to attract a Kelly or Merrett through FA, I dare say we'll effectively push Seb out the door, with an offer of a pay cut.

So I think we'll definitely be able to make room for a "big fish" in the next year or two, and they could very easily be all that's needed to tip us over the edge.

Especially if King and to a lesser extent Clark develop relatively unimpeeded over the next couple of years.
 
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Dazb86

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Still think the conventional way to build a list is a better option long term. Saints did well last year though with a new coach and some good recruiting. Hopefully a few of the younger home grown players start to become stars in their own right and then they'd be a genuine threat.
 

Plugger35

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Sep 27, 2008
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Cautious optimism is how I feel about St Kilda

We have a lot of upside but you can't bank on it.
 

WillHayward

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Aug 13, 2018
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Nathan Brown, Sam Rowe and now Chip Frawley.

Certainly a fetish for old key defender recruits.
 

Leeda

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Sep 26, 2012
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I know I said respond but I know I don't want reprobates who tera down the tent..

Tej yratx.. hotungsl

see it is easy to sell your story..
 

Leeda

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You're not over it at 30, but you start rolling the dice on your decline. Some play a few years of good football, but gradually injuries, etc. catch up. Some decline gradually, others quicker.

How did Hawkins 'debunk that myth'? He had a good year, but it was hardly groundbreaking.
ya chu sécu and winding up.. shatter
 

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