List Mgmt. Saints (French) Foreign Legion

[Freomaniac]

I think the French foreign legion " doesn't ask about a man's past", I guess that applies to Daniel hannebury and simon lethlean.

Legionarie starring Jean Claude Van Damme was a solid movie

 

[Freomaniac]

all of those players are australian so theyre not foreign

Would you classify Jean Claude Van Damme as an Aussie? lol

 

[74561347]

Would you classify Jean Claude Van Damme as an Aussie? lol

yes

 

[skittlebrew]

Saints have done well in picking up players from other clubs and for the most part not overpaying - Kudos to them.

 

[Ricmel]

I'm thinking the Saints current list Is the most interesting in the comp.

Consider this.

In their best 22 u have:

Carlisle Howard Hill Steele Jones Higgins Butler Membrey Ryder Hannerbery Crouch.

Think you have to have balance and Saints have also drafted a lot of young talent - Gresham (14), King (4), Coffield (8), Clark (7), Billings (3). I think that is where they differ from the way the Hawks and Cats went about it - they didn't trade a lot of draft picks away to recruit the "Foreign legion". And aside from maybe Hill, they have not recruited any seriously big names - there are no Dangerfield or Camerons or Mitchells in that group.

Time will tell.

 

[WillHayward]

Think you have to have balance and Saints have also drafted a lot of young talent - Gresham (14), King (4), Coffield (8), Clark (7), Billings (3). I think that is where they differ from the way the Hawks and Cats went about it - they didn't trade a lot of draft picks away to recruit the "Foreign legion". And aside from maybe Hill, they have not recruited any seriously big names - there are no Dangerfield or Camerons or Mitchells in that group.

Time will tell.

Not a criticism so no need to be defensive.

I'm just saying it's very interesting.
Crouch and Hannerbery are decent names I'd think.

Some posts have tried to say the Hawks had 6 or 7 recruits. I'm arguing 11 is a lot more than 6 or 7.
A lot more. 28% versus 50% of the best 22.

I think the Saints have done very well. I think they will be top 4. This has been a big turnaround.

Their list looked utterly awful in 2018. Third bottom and a % of 75. No real young talent.

They have done an unbelievable job in just 24 months.

Marshall Clark Coffield and King look bloody good.

Now you have a bunch of recruits plus Higgins and Crouch.

Very exciting.

 

[Brass Dog]

Names?

Of the 2016 side only 3 players came from other clubs:
Joel Hamling a delisted free agent from Geelong.
Shane Biggs from the swans for a minor pick downgrade.
Tom Boyd from GWS was the big acquisition, cost pick 6 and Griffen.

Each of these player were young in coming over, and hadn’t reached there best footy yet.

B: Jason Johannisen, Joel Hamling, Matthew Boyd
HB: Shane Biggs, Dale Morris, Easton Wood
C: Lachie Hunter, Marcus Bontempelli, Liam Picken
HF: Jack Macrae, Zaine Cordy, Jake Stringer
F: Tory Dickson, Tom Boyd , Clay Smith
Fol: Jordan Roughead, Luke Dahlhaus, Tom Liberatore
Int: Toby McLean, Fletcher Roberts, Josh Dunkley, Caleb Daniel

 

[Kwality]

Each of these player were young in coming over, and hadn’t reached there best footy yet.

drafted.

 

[Brass Dog]

drafted.

I was saying each of the 3 traded players were young. My point was that 19/22 of that team was homegrown, drafted by the dogs.

 

[WillHayward]

50% of best 22 is unheard of in modern times.

 

[aussierulesrules]

50% of best 22 is unheard of in modern times.

Unprecedented. Clayton Oliver style.

 

[Kwality]

I was saying each of the 3 traded players were young. My point was that 19/22 of that team was homegrown, drafted by the dogs.

Caleb Daniel - my point is its a bloody time since the draft did not reflect the draft.

 

[Mat Mann]

I think the French foreign legion " doesn't ask about a man's past", I guess that applies to Daniel hannebury and simon lethlean.

we've also got Gubby Allen but his misdemeanor doesn't count because it happened at your club?

 

[WillHayward]

Saints are going to be on a wild ride this year.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Count of teams with the most players who had previously played with another club

Players​	Teams​	Best finish	Best finish same year - club(s)
19​	5​	13th	Bris 1988
18​	1​	13th	Bris 1988
17​	24​	10th	Bris 1989
16​	27​	10th	Bris 1989
15​	10​	10th	Bris 1989
14​	9​	10th	Bris 1989
13​	17​	6th	Univ 1908
12​	48​	6th	Univ 1908, Fitz 1942
11​	104​	1st	Adel 1998
10​	229​	1st	Adel 1998, NM 1999
9​	549​	1st	Carl 1995, Adel 1997, Adel 1998, NM 1999, PA 2004

Most "foreign" players in a winning grand final team is 9 for Adelaide 1997-98.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Highest percentage of games given to players from other clubs in a season

% games	Year	Club	Total games	Foreign games	Finish
86.8	1988	Bris	440	382	13th
79.5	1987	Bris	440	350	13th
78.9	1989	Bris	440	347	10th
68.0	1990	Bris	440	299	14th
56.2	1908	Rich	324	182	9th
55.4	1942	Fitz	285	158	6th
55.2	1908	Univ	324	179	6th
55.2	1994	Bris	462	255	12th
52.1	2001	Coll	484	252	9th
50.9	1944	Geel	342	174	12th
50.5	1991	Bris	440	222	15th
50.2	1995	Frem	462	232	13th
49.7	1932	N.M.	342	170	8th
49.4	1997	P.A.	462	228	9th
47.4	1904	Carl	342	162	2nd
46.3	2020	Haw	374	173	15th
46.1	1988	Syd	440	203	7th
44.8	1903	Carl	324	145	3rd
44.4	2003	Coll	550	244	2nd
43.3	1943	Fitz	323	140	3rd
43.0	2004	Carl	484	208	11th
42.8	2016	Ess	484	207	18th
42.5	1998	Adel	572	243	1st

 

[Ron The Bear]

Recent seasons, all clubs percentage of games by players who have previously played elsewhere

Club	2016	2017	2018	2019	2020
Adel	24.6	16.5	23.6	14.3	17.4
Bris	23.6	20.7	28.1	38.3	34.7
Carl	36.6	32.0	37.6	32.9	39.8
Coll	30.4	37.6	35.1	38.3	30.6
Ess	42.8	19.4	29.3	22.7	33.2
Frem	11.0	20.9	19.8	31.6	24.3
Geel	21.0	22.4	21.5	25.1	26.4
G.C.	25.0	25.6	33.3	34.3	31.3
GWS	36.6	32.9	28.2	26.0	21.7
Haw	24.1	28.7	32.8	37.2	46.3
Melb	27.7	32.2	26.2	22.3	28.9
N.M.	14.6	14.7	23.6	22.9	27.5
P.A.	20.0	22.3	34.7	22.9	26.8
Rich	22.3	22.9	20.1	19.1	13.0
St.K	29.5	39.9	28.5	28.3	40.7
Syd	22.2	14.4	12.8	15.1	16.3
W.C.	28.1	35.4	23.1	27.1	25.0
W.B.	13.5	12.6	15.3	21.3	18.2

Contrasting trends on GWS and Hawthorn.

 

[Dazb86]

Recent seasons, all clubs percentage of games by players who have previously played elsewhere

Club	2016	2017	2018	2019	2020
Adel	24.6	16.5	23.6	14.3	17.4
Bris	23.6	20.7	28.1	38.3	34.7
Carl	36.6	32.0	37.6	32.9	39.8
Coll	30.4	37.6	35.1	38.3	30.6
Ess	42.8	19.4	29.3	22.7	33.2
Frem	11.0	20.9	19.8	31.6	24.3
Geel	21.0	22.4	21.5	25.1	26.4
G.C.	25.0	25.6	33.3	34.3	31.3
GWS	36.6	32.9	28.2	26.0	21.7
Haw	24.1	28.7	32.8	37.2	46.3
Melb	27.7	32.2	26.2	22.3	28.9
N.M.	14.6	14.7	23.6	22.9	27.5
P.A.	20.0	22.3	34.7	22.9	26.8
Rich	22.3	22.9	20.1	19.1	13.0
St.K	29.5	39.9	28.5	28.3	40.7
Syd	22.2	14.4	12.8	15.1	16.3
W.C.	28.1	35.4	23.1	27.1	25.0
W.B.	13.5	12.6	15.3	21.3	18.2

Contrasting trends on GWS and Hawthorn.

100% prefer a home grown talent. I find it harder to follow a player that's switched over. They quickly become a whipping boy if they aren't performing.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Why wouldn't you go down this path? If you can get to a GF, anything can happen. I know there are two schools of thought, but I'd much rather be following a team that played finals year after year than a team that went with the youth, and languished near the bottom.

The idea is that when that youth matures at roughly the same time, the club will go rocketing up the ladder. That's essentially what Gold Coast are hoping to do. It works well in the NBA, although they only have 5 players per team on the field at once instead of 18, so it's less effective in our game.

And age is an anachronism. Didn't Tom Brady just turn 40? We have this mindset that when you turn 30 you're old and past it. Tom Hawkins debunked that myth this year.

This is an important point, sports science has come along so far that players in many sports stay at the top well into their 30s. Aside from Brady, there's LeBron James (36), Ronaldo (35), Messi (33) and Cameron Smith (37) who are still among the best in their respective sports. At the same time, they're all players who rely on skills, instinct and awareness rather than speed or physicality to remain at the top, and there are others in their sports who become washed up much earlier due to relying more on physical tools (Cam Newton, Gareth Bale etc). So I'd say we'll see more 30-somethings stay at the top, assuming they don't rely mostly on speed or brute force.

 

[WillHayward]

Count of teams with the most players who had previously played with another club

Players​	Teams​	Best finish	Best finish same year - club(s)
19​	5​	13th	Bris 1988
18​	1​	13th	Bris 1988
17​	24​	10th	Bris 1989
16​	27​	10th	Bris 1989
15​	10​	10th	Bris 1989
14​	9​	10th	Bris 1989
13​	17​	6th	Univ 1908
12​	48​	6th	Univ 1908, Fitz 1942
11​	104​	1st	Adel 1998
10​	229​	1st	Adel 1998, NM 1999
9​	549​	1st	Carl 1995, Adel 1997, Adel 1998, NM 1999, PA 2004

Most "foreign" players in a winning grand final team is 9 for Adelaide 1997-98.

Can U explain the 'teams' column?

Also Adelaide 1998 had 11 but I assume that was a H and A game.

 

[WillHayward]

Recent seasons, all clubs percentage of games by players who have previously played elsewhere

Club	2016	2017	2018	2019	2020
Adel	24.6	16.5	23.6	14.3	17.4
Bris	23.6	20.7	28.1	38.3	34.7
Carl	36.6	32.0	37.6	32.9	39.8
Coll	30.4	37.6	35.1	38.3	30.6
Ess	42.8	19.4	29.3	22.7	33.2
Frem	11.0	20.9	19.8	31.6	24.3
Geel	21.0	22.4	21.5	25.1	26.4
G.C.	25.0	25.6	33.3	34.3	31.3
GWS	36.6	32.9	28.2	26.0	21.7
Haw	24.1	28.7	32.8	37.2	46.3
Melb	27.7	32.2	26.2	22.3	28.9
N.M.	14.6	14.7	23.6	22.9	27.5
P.A.	20.0	22.3	34.7	22.9	26.8
Rich	22.3	22.9	20.1	19.1	13.0
St.K	29.5	39.9	28.5	28.3	40.7
Syd	22.2	14.4	12.8	15.1	16.3
W.C.	28.1	35.4	23.1	27.1	25.0
W.B.	13.5	12.6	15.3	21.3	18.2

Contrasting trends on GWS and Hawthorn.

Very interesting table.
Well done.
Saints will probably sneak up with Higgins and Crouch coming in.

 

[WillHayward]

Given the fact we just won a final and were then generally highly competitive against the eventual premier in the semi (expected scores 77 to 72, had both teams kicked at the league average, from where they had their shots), despite being so much further from full strength than them, and have since added Crouch and Higgins, I don't think we're as far away as most probably think.

Especially if King in particular has a relatively good run at it over the next 2-3 years. If he does I expect he'll start ripping games apart by next year, if not this year.

To the team we lost the semi with, we potentially add all of the following to our team this year:
Crouch, Gresham, Ryder, Carlisle, Long and Higgins!

As for free cap space, it's entirely possible that Roberton and Dunstan are taking up as much as a million of the salary cap this year, and they'll likely both be off the books by this time next year. We'll then likely be able to shed Webster's probable $400K one at the end of next year, and Hannebery's $800K PA contract will also end then.

Then there's the fact that Seb Ross is eligible for FA this year, and if we happen to attract a Kelly or Merrett through FA, I dare say we'll effectively push Seb out the door, with an offer of a pay cut.

So I think we'll definitely be able to make room for a "big fish" in the next year or two, and they could very easily be all that's needed to tip us over the edge.

Especially if King and to a lesser extent Clark develop relatively unimpeeded over the next couple of years.

Free cap space from Webster etc will all go to three players.

King
Marshall
Steele

 

[PJays]

Finals 2020- Average age of 22 in last game:

Geelong- Grand Final: 28y 117d
Richmond- Grand Final: 27y 43d
Coll- Semi final: 26y 297d
West Coast- Elimination final: 26y 234d
Port- Prelim: 26y 145d
Bris- Prelim: 26y 66d
Bulldogs- Elimination final: 25y 82d
St.Kilda- Semi final: 25y 81d

St.Kilda's average reduced by the absence of Paddy Ryder.

Still, based on this St.Kilda's in a great position moving forward.

 

[WillHayward]

Finals 2020- Average age of 22 in last game:

Geelong- Grand Final: 28y 117d
Richmond- Grand Final: 27y 43d
Coll- Semi final: 26y 297d
West Coast- Elimination final: 26y 234d
Port- Prelim: 26y 145d
Bris- Prelim: 26y 66d
Bulldogs- Elimination final: 25y 82d
St.Kilda- Semi final: 25y 81d

St.Kilda's average reduced by the absence of Paddy Ryder.

Still, based on this St.Kilda's in a great position moving forward.

Interesting.
If Geelong make the GF again - which is a serious possibility - they will give 29 a nudge.

Probably not a surprise that as the game becomes more professional - more money, better grounds, better sports science - that teams become older generally.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Can U explain the 'teams' column?

Also Adelaide 1998 had 11 but I assume that was a H and A game.

Example 1: There have been five individual teams with 19 recycled players. (In this case they all happen to be Brisbane, and all in 1989.)

Example 2: There have been 48 individual teams with 12 recycled players, comprised of

Bris 1990 (1)
Bris 1991 (6)
Bris 1994 (10)
Bris 1995 (2)
Coll 2001 (9)
Ess 2016 (2)
Frem 1995 (3)
Geel 1944 (1)
Haw 2020 (2)
P.A. 1997 (2)
Rich 1908 (1)
Syd 1988 (1)
Fitz 1942 (6)
Univ 1908 (2)

and the best-performed of these were Univ 1908 and Fitz 1942 who both finished 6th.