List Mgmt. Saints (French) Foreign Legion

[Kwality]

I really like what the saints are doing. It would be great to see them win a flag. I hadn't even considered the French Foreign Legion comparison but it's a great one.

As for whether they have it right or not, only time will tell, but I don't think it'll be right for all teams if it works.

Its not a new concept, see South Melbourne of the 1930s:
:https://australianfootball.com/articles/view/the+foreign+legion+at+play/1973

 

[WillHayward]

So its not the Dogs then, wasnt the Hawks 3peat ...

Well nobody has had half a side of imports.
Not even close.

 

[WillHayward]

The question will be whether the coach can get all these blokes playing cohesive team footy or whether it will be a collection of individuals.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Saints also have:

Coffield Clark Marshall King Gresham and Paton.

That's 6 young home grown kids.

Long and Battle another couple who are best 22 and 22/23yo.

Wilkie another one under 25yo and he hasn't missed a game in his two years at the club.

 

[Scotland]

Well nobody has had half a side of imports.
Not even close.

Hawks had 7 in 2015 + Spangher in 2014 and Guerra/Simpkin in 2013. Not far off. They probably have 14 or 15 now.

 

[Boristown]

Should see them consistently make top 8 over the next few years and win a final here and there. There isn't a flag in their squad though.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

The question will be whether the coach can get all these blokes playing cohesive team footy or whether it will be a collection of individuals.

That’s not the question at all. Mature recruits have exposed form - you know what kind of players they are before you get them. That’s the advantage. So you recruit specific players to fit your game plan. Cohesion isn’t the test

The question is one of value - whether the prices you pay in terms of salary and trade get you the required output.

 

[WillHayward]

That’s not the question at all. Mature recruits have exposed form - you know what kind of players they are before you get them. That’s the advantage. So you recruit specific players to fit your game plan. Cohesion isn’t the test

The question is one of value - whether the prices you pay in terms of salary and trade get you the required output.

Bit of both.
Hear what ur saying but players usually have to change roles. It's not all set in stone.

 

[Plugger35]

Should see them consistently make top 8 over the next few years and win a final here and there. There isn't a flag in their squad though.

You're probably right, the umpires don't favour us enough like your beloved Bulldogs, if only we were as lucky as your team back in 2016.

 

[Yojimbo]

You're probably right, the umpires don't favour us enough like your beloved Bulldogs, if only we were as lucky as your team back in 2016.

2016 Western Bulldogs:
Disposals- Rank 1st
Kicks- Rank 3rd
Handballs- Rank 1st
Best seventh placed record in the modern game 15-7.

Did we have flaws ? yes. Do we still have some flaws ? yes. Were we lucky ? yes every premiership team needs luck.

 

[Leeda]

Yeah, the club might end up playing in a Grand Final

what you don't think that Geelong has infallible propensities... gather your f9orcieslll

 

[Leeda]

So its not the Dogs then, wasnt the Hawks 3peat ...

stunning capitulation.. lovely..

 

[sunny3193]

That's an astounding stat. It's reflective of St Kilda not having as many players in that 18-19 age bracket who bring the average down. Saints have very few old players, few young players, and loads in between (aged 21-27, with a big group of our best 22 aged 23-26).

Geelong has about 15 or 16 players in their best 22 who are 28 or more. St Kilda has 3 or 4. (Carlisle, Hannebery, Ryder. Some Saints fans include Geary, others leave him out).

So in terms of where we're placed for the next 2 or 3 years, I expect minimal changes in our best 22 each year. Whereas Geelong will be undergoing significant changes every year to the team that's out on the field.

St.Kilda is a bit unique in having so many older players who aren't even in their best 22- Frawley, McKernan, Webster, Roberton, some add Geary, etc.

Plus we are running “light” with our list at the moment.
I think we have three spots unfilled.
Typically these would be players at the younger end of the spectrum.
So the average age is skewed older.
It will be interesting to see how or if those spots are utilised.

 

[Boristown]

You're probably right, the umpires don't favour us enough like your beloved Bulldogs, if only we were as lucky as your team back in 2016.

The classic 2am bitter post.

 

[PJays]

Well nobody has had half a side of imports.
Not even close.

How many did Hawthorn have?

Burgoyne, Frawley, Gibson, Lake, McEvoy, Gunston, Hale, Puopolo (not from another AFL club, but mature age recruit from a VFL club which is similar).

That's 8.

Saints went extremely close in 2009 with 10 players picked up from elsewhere- Milne, Schneider, Dempster, King, Gardiner, Ray, Gram, Dawson, Jones (mature age recruit), Fisher (mature age recruit). Peake then recruited for 2010. And Lovett which went badly wrong. And again St.Kilda got extremely close.

St.Kilda's team was built pre-free agency too.

So clearly there's precedent for AFL teams being successful with large numbers of transferees and less home grown talent.

The folly of this strategy was seen in 2013-2015 as St.Kilda badly bottomed out, as they lacked young talent coming through because they'd picked up older blokes.

It was a high risk, high reward strategy that ultimately didn't pay off by the smallest of possible margins. They went very, very close 2 years in a row. No one else in memory has gone that close on multiple occasions but failed to win a flag.

 

[WillHayward]

How many did Hawthorn have?

Burgoyne, Frawley, Gibson, Lake, McEvoy, Gunston, Hale, Puopolo (not from another AFL club, but mature age recruit from a VFL club which is similar).

That's 8.

Saints went extremely close in 2009 with 10 players picked up from elsewhere- Milne, Schneider, Dempster, King, Gardiner, Ray, Gram, Dawson, Jones (mature age recruit), Fisher (mature age recruit). Peake then recruited for 2010. And Lovett which went badly wrong. And again St.Kilda got extremely close.

St.Kilda's team was built pre-free agency too.

So clearly there's precedent for AFL teams being successful with large numbers of transferees and less home grown talent.

The folly of this strategy was seen in 2013-2015 as St.Kilda badly bottomed out, as they lacked young talent coming through because they'd picked up older blokes.

It was a high risk, high reward strategy that ultimately didn't pay off by the smallest of possible margins. They went very, very close 2 years in a row. No one else in memory has gone that close on multiple occasions but failed to win a flag.

If you count Puopolo then Saints can count Long and Wilkie in best 22 which takes them to 13.

But ur right. It's v risky. Chips all in.

Obviously Ryder and Frawley are only in for 2021.

See Saints playing finals for next few years. Window is open now.

 

[Tarkyn_24]

In the era of destination clubs & free agency, its been a while since anyone won a flag with a 'home grown' list & its not likely to change.

Collingwood 2010?

L Brown, Jolly and Ball might have tipped them over the edge but aside from them I can’t think of any other acquisitions from other clubs.

Medhurst and Wood were peripheral but arguably started the year in or close to best 22 but never played Grand Final day.

 

[Kwality]

Collingwood 2010?

L Brown, Jolly and Ball might have tipped them over the edge but aside from them I can’t think of any other acquisitions from other clubs.

Medhurst and Wood were peripheral but arguably started the year in or close to best 22 but never played Grand Final day.

So its not the Pies ....

 

[Tarkyn_24]

So its not the Pies ....

19 of a premiership 22 not home grown enough for you?

I would imagine Geelong in their era of dominance would’ve been close to that too.

 

[Godzke]

French Foreign Legion ... mate what the * are you smoking?

 

[sydney_gws]

I'm thinking the Saints current list Is the most interesting in the comp.

Consider this.

In their best 22 u have:

Carlisle Howard Hill Steele Jones Higgins Butler Membrey Ryder Hannerbery Crouch.

That's 11 blokes.

Half the side.

Throw in Kent, McKernan and Frawley as 3 emergencies.

The last decade of premiership sides have had between 2 and 6 players recruited from outside.

Now this makes sense. The old model of draft kids and build a side is much bloody harder since GC and GWS have managed to dominate the draft and been gifted young talent.

Some clubs like Demons and Blues have tried the old model and found it hard.

Some clubs like Geelong have rejected it outright.

Now GWS and GC are competitive no doubt this model will return with glory. The Swans are now going back to this for example.

But in the here and now, do the Saints have it right??

If they sneak a flag it will be with half a side of recruits.

Not saying they won't.. Just saying it would be a huge difference from the recent norm.

Bloody interested to find out.

Thoughts on this ?

I think the French foreign legion " doesn't ask about a man's past", I guess that applies to Daniel hannebury and simon lethlean.

 

[WillHayward]

19 of a premiership 22 not home grown enough for you?

I would imagine Geelong in their era of dominance would’ve been close to that too.

Mooney and Ottens?
That's about it I think?

 

[Tarkyn_24]

Mooney and Ottens?
That's about it I think?

I was going to say Steven King but he was the other direction (and he missed out at the Saints anyway).

Harley was ex-Port I think? Like Mooney, missed 2011 though as he’d retired.

 

[Dr Tigris]

It's true that you don't build a team around Crouch (that said, he did get the 4th most coaches votes for the finals series in the year they made the GF, and has since won a club B&F), but we're also not paying him the kind of money you'd pay the types you build a team around.

On a yearly average of their contracts (so taking out front or back ending and just going on the average across the contract), he's probably our 7th or 8th highest paid this year.

We also had a huge amount of money tied up last season in guys that weren't getting a game (Roberton, Dunstan and Webster played 2 games between them and could have been on $1.5mil), so once their contracts expire it's gonna free up a lot more money for us to go big again at the trade and free agency market.

And perhaps now we'll be attractive enough as a destination to land that really big fish that makes the big difference.

Agree. The second half of my comment was really where it's at though. What the Saints have done, I reckon, is rapidly build a deep list of AFL quality. A lot has been opportunistic. Bet who cares. If you go from (say, I don't know) 18 genuine AFL quality players, to 22 genuine AFL quality players, you suddenly can deal with loss of form, injuries and adapting to different teams much better. The Saints have quickly, and relatively cheaply built a good deep squad. I reckon that's smart, cause once you're in the region of contention many things can happen. But sitting just out of that area you're just making up the numbers.

 

[Sttew]

what you don't think that Geelong has infallible propensities... gather your f9orcieslll

?