Saints Midfield

[nicko016]

Last night our midfield struggled and looked second rate. I thought McGough was unlucky to be dropped and could have added to our midfield a little. We got beaten in the clearances despite winning the hitouts and could go with another inside midfielder. His foot skills are fairly bad but there is no reason why we couldn't use him like Jobe Watson. This year we having been doing much worse in the clearances and McGough could help in this area. What does everyone think of McGough?

As well, last night it became evident that we lack legspeed and flair through the midfield. No doubt, Xav will help this but what if we were to chuck Raph Clarke into a permanent role in the midfield when he gets back. Im not sure how well he would go but Nathan Lovett-Murray does it and Raph seems a similiar player and size to Nathan Lovett-Murray. We also need Leigh Montagna to step up. He has been good this year but we need him to become an elite midfielder and step up like Daniel Giansuricusa has done in the past year or two.

You would think that St. Kilda will try to recruit some quick midfielders whether it ben in the draft or by trade. We could target someone like Kane Tenace who has yet to prove himself but has shown glimpses. His market price wouldn't be too high and he is a top 10 draft pick and super quick. What about getting Akermanis if we could get a good deal for him? What are your thoughts?

 

[nudgep]

Last night our midfield struggled and looked second rate. I thought MNcGough was unlucky to be dropped and could have added to our midfield a little. We got beaten in the clearances despite winning the hitouts and could go with another inside midfielder. His foot skills are fairly bad but if there isno reason why we couldn't use him like Jobe Watson. This year we having been doing much worse in the clearances and McGough could help in this area. What does everyone thinkof McGough?

As well, last night it became evident that we lack ledspeed and flair through the midfield. No doubt, Xav will help this but what if we were to chuck Raph Clarke into a permanent role in the midfield when he gets back. Im not sure how well he would go but Nathan Lovett-Murray does it and Raph seems a similiar player and sizer to Nathan Lovett-Murray. We also need Leigh Montagna to step up. He has been good this year but we need him to become an elite midfielder and step up like Daniel Giansuricusa has done in the past year or two.

You would think that St. Kilda will try to recruit some quick midfielders whether it ben in the draft or by trade. We could target someone like Kane Tenace who has yet to prove himself but has shown glimpses. His market price wouldn't be too high and he is a top 10 draft pick and super quick. What about getting Akermanis if we could get a good deal for him? What are your thoughts?

mcgough, dont rate him, has potential, but it needs to be realised or else its nothing. i was happy when he came to the saints because of that ANZAC day medal but it seems he could well be destined to be a one game wonder!

Flair, the person i think has the most flair in the saints is Gwilt, hopefully he slots straight into the senior side next game agst hawthorn because i believe he adds a certain spark to the saints. raph hopefully too comes back in just to get players thinking about there spots. fiora is terrible, if he doesnt start performing soon, he needs to be cut, cant afford that sort of mediocrity at the saints.

tenace would be a good pickup, doesnt hav a high profile so wouldnt demand much money nor take much to get him. add sum speed to the midfield and hopefully skill. akermanis- brisbane wont let him go and we shouldnt want him at the saints. take up too much room in the salary cap and is at the tail end of his career. plus if leigh matthews cant discipline him then i dont think thomas will have much hope

 

[Kildonan]

I rate McGough - he's a real trier (he's not a ball magnet by accident), and he is willing to do the hard stuff. He gets down and dirty, scrabbling for the ball. He is selfless in this as he gets the ball out to our better skilled players and makes them look good. He is unfashionable as most people take more notice of the highly skilled players and rarely attribute their performances as enhanced by his efforts.

His weaknesses include disposal skills and legspeed. Both are legitimate problems, but neither will impair him from playing the in and under role that he excels at. Some of his disposal skill problem actually can be attributed to his slow pace - he often finds himself under pressure before he's completed his kick. No matter how skilled you are this will affect your disposal. GT has him handpassing more often now than he used to, and this has improved his contribution to the team.

McGough career stats(Averages):

 Year Team        Gm Disp Kck KLg Mrk CMk Hbl Tkl Gls Bhd F/F F/A H/O 1st Cle I50 R50 CPs UCPs  1% Err Bnc 
 2002 Collingwood 17 15.1 7.8 3.2 2.7 0.4 7.2 3.4 0.3 0.4 0.5 0.7   0 2.9 2.3 2.2 0.8 1.9 13.6 3.1 2.9 0.2 
 2003 Collingwood  8 13.1 8.4 3.0 2.6 0.2 4.8 3.5 0.1 0.4 0.2 0.8   0 3.5 2.8 1.9 1.0 2.8 11.4 2.6 4.1 0.6 
 2004 Collingwood 12 16.5 9.2 3.8 4.3 0.2 7.3 3.3 0.5 0.3 0.5 0.6   0 4.5 3.8 2.8 1.2 3.0 14.9 3.2 3.2 0.8 
 2005 St Kilda     9 12.7 5.6 2.8 3.3 0.1 7.1 1.7 0.1 0.3 0.4 0.4   0 2.0 1.2 2.2 0.9 1.6 10.9 1.4 1.7 0.4 
 2006 St Kilda     3 14.0 8.0 3.3 3.0   0 6.0 3.0 0.3   0 0.7 1.0   0 4.7 3.0 1.0 1.0 1.3 13.0 3.3 2.0 0.3 
      Career      49 14.6 7.8 3.3 3.2 0.2 6.8 3.0 0.3 0.3 0.4 0.7   0 3.3 2.6 2.2 0.9 2.2 13.0 2.8 2.9 0.5

I consider first possessions as the most important statistic for club success.
McGough currently leads our club in that statistic (albeit from 3 games - so not yet a reliable indicator)
He is also ranked fourth in our club in (average) clearances.
These are valuable contributions that we need to make use of (especially in the absence of Hayes, Powell and Thompson, and with Ball still impaired by injury).

 

[nicko016]

Providing that CP's are contested possessions and UCP's uncontested possessions it is intesting to see that for such an in and under player he has a really low amount of contested possessions according to StKildonan's stats. Just wondering what a good average for 1 percenters are and what stat Bnc stands for. Also where do you get your stats from StKildonan?

 

[Kildonan]

Bnc = bounces

Pro-stats is the site where I get my stats from

Lenny Hayes currently leads our club's (average) contested possessions with 2.9 per match in 2006 and has a career average of 2.7 per match.

Max Hudghton currently leads our club's (average) 1%'s with 6.5 per match in 2006 and has a career average of 6.5 per match

 

[nicko016]

Pro-Stats have got some good stats on their site, however, im not sure that the contested possesions and uncontested possessions are correct. I've got AFL Prospectus and their numbers for contested and uncontested possession are much higher. Also if you go onto the Live stats on the AFL site you will se that the top 5 contested possession players get around 10 for a game.

 

[SpInNeR]

Last night our midfield struggled and looked second rate. I thought McGough was unlucky to be dropped and could have added to our midfield a little. We got beaten in the clearances despite winning the hitouts and could go with another inside midfielder. His foot skills are fairly bad but there is no reason why we couldn't use him like Jobe Watson. This year we having been doing much worse in the clearances and McGough could help in this area. What does everyone think of McGough?

As well, last night it became evident that we lack legspeed and flair through the midfield. No doubt, Xav will help this but what if we were to chuck Raph Clarke into a permanent role in the midfield when he gets back. Im not sure how well he would go but Nathan Lovett-Murray does it and Raph seems a similiar player and size to Nathan Lovett-Murray. We also need Leigh Montagna to step up. He has been good this year but we need him to become an elite midfielder and step up like Daniel Giansuricusa has done in the past year or two.

You would think that St. Kilda will try to recruit some quick midfielders whether it ben in the draft or by trade. We could target someone like Kane Tenace who has yet to prove himself but has shown glimpses. His market price wouldn't be too high and he is a top 10 draft pick and super quick. What about getting Akermanis if we could get a good deal for him? What are your thoughts?

I absolutely do not rate Mcgough. He finds the ball but is hopeless in disposel.

Yet i was disappointed he was dropped. what: 15 possies in 60 min again sydney??? Surely that good enough. Personally i thought he played well that game (mainly due to his supreme conditions).

But If St.kilda are going to invest in him and draft him, then if he is playing well (apparently killing it with casey) then we should die by the sword and play the mongruel. There is no doubt that he shouldnt have lost his spot. Whats the point of drafting him is he isnt going to be selected and rewarded for good performances.

Thoughts????

 

[Stab_Pass]

JUst reading on the internet that Kozzi collapsed on a channel 7 report this morning, im not a doctor but im guessing that is not the type of thing you want happening after coming back from a fractured skull.

 

[Kildonan]

I absolutely do not rate Mcgough. He finds the ball but is hopeless in disposel.

Yet i was disappointed he was dropped. what: 15 possies in 60 min again sydney??? Surely that good enough. Personally i thought he played well that game (mainly due to his supreme conditions).

But If St.kilda are going to invest in him and draft him, then if he is playing well (apparently killing it with casey) then we should die by the sword and play the mongruel. There is no doubt that he shouldnt have lost his spot. Whats the point of drafting him is he isnt going to be selected and rewarded for good performances.

Thoughts????

I agree SpInNeR that he was unlucky to be dropped. I also agree that they should be playing him after drafting him as they did as a depth player for our midfield. Our midfield is depleted. He is a midfielder. Play him.

I believe that the selectors opted for pace. Fiora was retained for that reason (despite being disappointing). McQualter was included as well as the return of X Clarke. Montagna and Gram are our other players recognised for their pace. We were going to try and play fast paced play on footy and Adelaide were way ahead of this and devised a high pressure tackling game to counter us. It worked a treat and shows the value of having a spy network set up to determine what the opposition tactics will be.

 

[nudgep]

McQualter is awesome
i rly rate this bloke
he should be given every chance to cement a spot in the side and i believe in hayes absence should play out the rest of the season in the 1's, reasonable form permitting, judging by friday that should be no problem. him and gwilt can add an extra something to the team while also contributing to their development for the future. the saints should try to buck the trend and develop youngsters while going for the flag, injuries can allow us to do this without realistically having much chance of a flag, so we should try to shift our premiership window a few years later instead of trying futily to win one this year. as much as id love to send of harvs with a premiership that he soooooo deserves, that would be the attitude of a st.kilda of the past, individuals over the team.

i am expecting criticism over this, so let me hav it!

 

[Kildonan]

No criticism. Sorry if it looks like I am going out to disagree with you. I am not.

McQualter is a ripper. He still needs more muscle, and has been caught out because of this, but he really stood up on Friday when our more experienced players were pretty useless.

I also agree that no individual is above the team.

Harves would agree with you too. He isn't in it to win one for himself, he is all about what needs to be done for the team.

McQualter, Gwilt, Gilbert, Rix??, Brooks??, Leigh Fisher, Gram, Raph Clarke, Ferguson, Sam Fisher, Ackland, Montagna and McGough are all players on our list who have yet to play 50 games. All of these guys will benefit from more experience. Giving them time on ground can only benefit us in our future.

We don't need to give up on our premiership aspirations to play these guys.

 

[Kildonan]

McQualter has just turned 20. Last year he played 7 games for us and he showed a lot of promise.

This year he has played 5 games so far. He has been unlucky in that his last 4 matches have all been losses.

I was a little disappointed in his Port game, mainly because he lacked the strength to battle Stuart Dew in defence (although he should never have ended up there in a one on one battle for a contested mark)

Since then he has impressed me. In the Adelaide match, he was one of the few Sainters to stand up. He made 10 tackles (Saints highest) and was second top for 1%'s to Max Hudghton

Date   Description             Result    Disp Kck KLg Mrk CMk Hbl Tkl Gls Bhd F/F F/A H/O 1st Cle I50 R50 CPs UPs  1% Err Bnc 
16 Jun Adelaide, Round 12      60-123 L   15   8   1   5   0   7  10   1   0   1   1   0   2   1   1   0   3  13   7   2   0 
12 May Geelong, Round 7        64- 82 L   12   6   1   6   0   6   7   0   0   0   1   0   1   1   1   1   0  12   5   1   0 
30 Apr Fremantle, Round 5      93- 94 L   11   6   0   1   0   5   2   0   0   1   0   0   6   2   1   1   1  11   2   0   1
24 Apr Port Adelaide, Round 4 118-122 L   16  10   2   9   0   6   2   1   0   0   0   0   2   0   6   1   1  17   3   4   0 
13 Apr Brisbane, Round 3      124- 87 W   12   9   2   6   0   3   2   0   1   0   0   0   0   2   1   0   0  12   1   1   0

His career averages are fairly consistent despite the small numbers of matches involved. His tackling and 1%'s are amongst the best of our team.

 Year  Team   Gm  Disp Kck KLg Mrk CMk Hbl Tkl Gls Bhd F/F F/A H/O 1st Cle I50 R50 CPs UCPs  1% Err Bnc 
 2005 St Kilda  7 13.0 7.3 2.1 2.7   0 5.7 4.7 0.3   0 0.7 0.1   0 1.9 1.4 1.9 1.0 0.6 10.9 4.0 1.3 0.3 
 2006 St Kilda  5 13.2 7.8 1.2 5.4   0 5.4 4.6 0.4 0.2 0.4 0.4   0 2.2 1.2 2.0 0.6 1.0 13.0 3.6 1.6 0.2 
        Career 12 13.1 7.5 1.8 3.8   0 5.6 4.7 0.3 0.1 0.6 0.2   0 2.0 1.3 1.9 0.8 0.8 11.8 3.8 1.4 0.2

Given the assumption that he plays in most of our matches for the remainder of the season, I expect to see him gain in confidence and snatch a first 22 midfield spot for 2007 onwards. Another preseason might see a bit more muscle on him and with the extra matches under his belt, he could be another gun. With Hayes returning, but the probable loss of Harvey and Thompson, he will be an essential part of our midfield.

Now if only McGough can cement a spot we will be set for a good number of years.

Our midfield will contain L Hayes, N Dal Santo, L Ball as the first string, with A McQualter, M McGough and L Montagna as my second choice.

L Fisher, B Goddard, J Blake, X Clarke, S Baker, S Milne and J Gwilt all seem likely to play a midfield role.

We have some youngsters coming through who may also see some midfield action in C Corr, J Sweeney and P Raymond.

I would also like to see N Riewoldt have a run as a ruck rover type through the midfield more frequently.

 

[nudgep]

i thought sweeney was a forward, seems to be kicking regular goals for casey
umm alot of names there to play in the midfield, i reckon that a few of those will be running out of defence players, such as l fisher and x clarke. milne should be put into the forward pocket, let him do what he does best. put him in the midifeld and his first instinct is goalwards, which could quite easily result in one of those too frequent happenings in the st.kilda side; a high kick into the forward line for the opposition defence to just take straight out.

 

[Kildonan]

The game has evolved and will continue to do so.
The half forwards and half backs do not play the same roles they did just 5 years ago. Their roles are an admixture of defensive play similar to the old style and offensive play more in keeping with the old midfielder style.

The demands on the fitness of our midfielders will see more players play that role, rather than demanding more from the same few players. To this end players will take a greater on-field rotation of on-ball duties. It is already happening. Small and medium sized players will be required to share some of the on-ball duties. There will be fewer "specialised" roles - only a few key forwards and a few key backs.

It is inevitable, like the slow movement forward of a glacier, these changes are happening now. The only permanent thing in AFL is change, evolution. It is partly engineered to make the game more marketable, it is partly natural evolution - a result of teams finding newer, better ways to win.

P.S. I agree with Milne being a specialised forward crumber. That is where he is most damaging. I don't condone his midfield move, I merely acknowledge that it is happening.