Saints rebuild vs Carlton rebuild

[ronnysnodgrass]

both clubs hit bottom (2014 v 2015)

Carlton seems to going for an accelerated rebuild, saints a slower burn

My gut says ours has more substance but I'm impressed by how Carlton is going

What's everyone else's thoughts?

 

[sauce_head]

That

both clubs hit bottom (2014 v 2015)

Carlton seems to going for an accelerated rebuild, saints a slower burn

My gut says ours has more substance but I'm impressed by how Carlton is going

What's everyone else's thoughts?

That they are about eight years into theirs and we are about three.

 

[Glen Buterol]

They have a more dominant midfielder in Cripps than we do. Gibbs also having a cracking year. We have a better list of talls tho but they've probably got the best of them (Weitering). Where they fall down is the ruck & tall fwd stocks. They were playing Liam Jones ffs.

 

[Loading]

Carlton would be a few years behind us I would've thought, but again like others they seem to have more top end talent than us. However, once we add one or two elite players we will be comfortably ahead due to having great depth. Same goes for us compared to other young teams except gws...

 

[Luke_sainters]

Look at Carltons team
Murphy 28 Gibbs 26 Simpson 31 Rowe 28 Casbault 26 Armfield 27 Curnow 26 Tuohey 26 Everett 26 Wright 26 White 27 Walker 30 Thomas 29 Krezuer 26
Weitering 18, Plowman 21, Kerridge 23, Sumner 22, Gorringe 24, Cripps 21, Docherty 23, Lamb 23

They have 7 players 23 and under.
And have 14 players over 25 that played so it looks deceiving they have a more experienced list than ours ATM.

 

[Glen Buterol]

Look at Carltons team
Murphy 28 Gibbs 26 Simpson 31 Rowe 28 Casbault 26 Armfield 27 Curnow 26 Tuohey 26 Everett 26 Wright 26 White 27 Walker 30 Thomas 29 Krezuer 26
Weitering 18, Plowman 21, Kerridge 23, Sumner 22, Gorringe 24, Cripps 21, Docherty 23, Lamb 23

They have 7 players 23 and under.
And have 14 players over 25 that played so it looks deceiving they have a more experienced list than ours ATM.

They've got some absolute bottom feeders in their best 22. Lamb & Sumner wowee. Arm field played ok today but he's gotta be one of the worst best 22 players in the comp. yuck. We have better depth & a more even 22.

 

[Choomah]

armfield curnow rowe everitt walker white are some of the worst players ive ever seen

 

[Tommy Wigs]

They have a more dominant midfielder in Cripps than we do. Gibbs also having a cracking year. We have a better list of talls tho but they've probably got the best of them (Weitering). Where they fall down is the ruck & tall fwd stocks. They were playing Liam Jones ffs.

Yep and not easy to get, the tall forwards.

Think there is more to the buy in to the coach than anything.

 

[Tommy Wigs]

Look at Carltons team
Murphy 28 Gibbs 26 Simpson 31 Rowe 28 Casbault 26 Armfield 27 Curnow 26 Tuohey 26 Everett 26 Wright 26 White 27 Walker 30 Thomas 29 Krezuer 26
Weitering 18, Plowman 21, Kerridge 23, Sumner 22, Gorringe 24, Cripps 21, Docherty 23, Lamb 23

They have 7 players 23 and under.
And have 14 players over 25 that played so it looks deceiving they have a more experienced list than ours ATM.

Yep they are more like us 2011-12. But we're still more experienced than most media recognise.

 

[stfan]

Carlton were badly coached under Malthouse who also lost the players.

Bolton has come in, engaged the players, and introduced a modern game plan.

However the Saints player wise are much further along in our rebuild for down the track success. The Blues still have a more solid core of olders players in the midfield and this may see them prosper for a few seasons. But this may just see them as the new Richmond.

FUTURE SAINTS (We need still two GUN mids to be Top 4)

Rice/Dmac Carlisle Roberton
Savage Goddard (Coughlan) Webster
Newnes Armo* ??????
Membrey Bruce Billings
Lonie McCartin Weller (Sinclair)

Hickey/ Longer
???????
Steven

INT: From Ross Gresham Sinclair Dunstan Freeman Acres

White looks promising, as does Coughlan. Others like Murdoch, Templeton, Pierce etc may still make it.

*Armo at 27yr 11m is the oldest I have kept for this list. Geary as back up if one of the youngsters does not come on


I think that we still need two absolute gun mids from either draft and/or trade. I suspect that one of Longer or Hickey will be sacrificed for this. Goddard is stilla question mark, but Coughlan is a plan B as is Lee.

So we already have much of the team in place. The Blues do not. Not long for this world are Murphy, Simpson, Armfield , Walker and Thomas. Kruezer has major longevity concerns. Yes we will lose Roo, Fisher, Dempster and Joey but I believe we largely have them covered (wll as much as you can when one is Roo).

While Cripps and Weitering look good for the Blues I believe that our 23 yro and younger players stack up a lot better and set us up a lot better for future success.

 

[George]

They've only had 2 really good wins this year, against Geelong today and Port Adelaide a couple of weeks ago.

They have won three other games - v Fremantle, Essendon, Collingwood.

They have also lost to the Suns (44pts) and been smashed by Sydney and North Melbourne (10 goals + for each game).

I think they are well behind us...they need a few more trade periods to start building the list.

We have had one of the hardest draws over the first 10 rounds of the year. We've played Hawthorn, North Melbourne, GWS, West Coast, and Port Adelaide away in Round 1.

Out of those teams Carlton has only played North Melbourne (10 goal loss as opposed to ours by a kick) and Port Adelaide (2pt win at Etihad).

I think they are well behind. Out of the young sides' potential I'd probably list them as;

1) GWS
2) Bulldogs
3) St.Kilda (Only ahead of Melbourne because of our spine)
4) Melbourne
5) Carlton
6) Brisbane

 

[Defacto]

i think people are being a bit harsh on carlton here. they have some pretty good kids coming though

 

[King_Steele]

Avg age of 26 tells me they should be contending.

 

[AFLOnline]

Carlton has better top end talent, we have more depth. I'd prefer depth, you can always add talent through FA, trading or lucking out in the draft. Depth isn't as easily covered.

I also like the fact that we have bolstered our forward line first, a position Carlton are lacking. In saying that they probably have a stronger defense for the future, lead by Weitering. The midfield is pretty identical. Again I think ours runs deeper, but Cripps alone definitely boosts theirs too our level.

Will be nice being at the top with Carlton in a few years. I don't think we have ever been contenders while they have been and vis versa.

 

[Geary Is GOAT]

Where they fall down is the ruck & tall fwd stocks. They were playing Liam Jones ffs.

The Liam Jones FF Levi Casboult CHF is possibly the weakest KPF combination the modern era has seen.

 

[rodney86]

Carlton seems to have been rebuilding since they got caught cheating in 2002. They really should be ahead of us.

 

[my name was taken]

Thought about this earlier today. They just run through the midfield better than us thus far.
Our forward line is better and we have 2 future defender kpp waiting/developing.
We also have solid ruck options

Everyone knows midfielders can make or break a game, just look at our game against the dockers. We almost lost to a winless team because we couldn't get a clearance. Inject more quality there and every quarter could have been like the 4th when we dominated the midfield.

Our puzzle is almost complete, and Id rather be looking for a couple great midfielders than looking for good KPP's, just look at freo, they have been hanging out for a forward for years while their list aged away.

 

[NarklesHelmet]

In Carlton I think we are seeing the value a good coach has to a team. I think Clarko has changed the AFL coaching landscape for good: he is a teacher and has also been tactically revolutionary. Going forward, no longer can AFL coaches rely on being an ex-player who is mainly a motivator, they will all have to be teachers and tacticians first and their playing career will not be a very important part of why they would be hired.

Have we got the right coach to finish of our re-build in the sort of tactical environment that is in the AFL now and that Bolton is a great fit for? I'm not sure. I hope so but the jury is still out.

 

[Nutsngum]

Look at Carltons team
Murphy 28 Gibbs 26 Simpson 31 Rowe 28 Casbault 26 Armfield 27 Curnow 26 Tuohey 26 Everett 26 Wright 26 White 27 Walker 30 Thomas 29 Krezuer 26
Weitering 18, Plowman 21, Kerridge 23, Sumner 22, Gorringe 24, Cripps 21, Docherty 23, Lamb 23

They have 7 players 23 and under.
And have 14 players over 25 that played so it looks deceiving they have a more experienced list than ours ATM.

Its almost like older more experienced players are more capable of learning and sticking to a new gameplan and backing each other in.

 

[felsty]

Carlton seems to have been rebuilding since they got caught cheating in 2002. They really should be ahead of us.

This.

That club from an onfield perspective is riding the coat tails of high draft picks and solid players in their prime. What they do have is an amazing coach, good set up, and are finally working on regenerating the list, rather than a rebuild.

They still have the nucleus of a very good team, it was never a rebuild, more a 'replace the deadweight' with talented youngsters. Last year was a massive step in the right direction from a D&T perspective.

 

[bird_man]

Comparing apples with oranges.

Carlton have the age and experience of a top 4 side at the moment.

 

[cartel]

Not sure where this bagging of Everitt is coming from. Can have some brain fades, but I think he's a very handy player.

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[felsty]

Not sure where this bagging of Everitt is coming from. Can have some brain fades, but I think he's a very handy player.

Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk

Last years B and F. Seems to have finally found his niche.

 

[cooperrules]

if we had beaten either norf port or hawks i would say its about 50/50. so currently its about 52 carlton 48 stk.

 

[King_Steele]

Comparing apples with oranges.

Carlton have the age and experience of a top 4 side at the moment.

This times 1000

Let them think their the next GWS.