Autopsy Saints roll the Cats.

[gringo2011]

Some of the umpiring on holding the ball breaches by Geelong was really poor. It was like going back 3 years when Geelong players were given an eternity to get rid of the ball. The 15 metre kicks were also inconsistent with ours being called play on and yet Geelongs were fine. It was like the umpires went into the game with an agenda to stop paying our short kicks as a mark.

The same thing happened in the Collingwood v Bulldogs game, there is no doubt the bigger or sucessful clubs get looked after by the umpiring fraternity. I dont know if its a conscious thing or whether they are just intimidated by their abusive crowds.

After watching the VFL game also the standard of umpiring right across the board has been pretty ordinary to start the year. Did I read that they have a shortage of umpires, well its definitely showing in the quality of their understanding of the game.

You can literally just let the ball go after you've been tackled now. We should be training it.

 

[Joffaboy]

We didn't bid, he was in the open draft. They were worried we'd take him so bid to jump ahead of us because he was a bolter. Leake actually looks like a great prospect too. As does Windsor who was nearly un-splittable from Wilson as they both seemed similar types with similar upside. I'm extremely happy we got Darcy but that ended up being an incredibly good draft overall.

I think Leake will be very good for GWS. Because GWS can afford to give up 2nd rounders ( back then) because they get NGA's for cheap they could afford to give up a second for a one place swap.

It's canny drafting by the Saints, one of the ways we get the one hand tied behind our backs by the AFL a bit untied.
We used the second I think for pick swaps and Macrae, then used that pick yo trade up for Boxshall.
So we got our man Wilson, and the following year got Macrae and Boxshall from the second.
GWS got their man. So win win all round.

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[gringo2011]

I think Leake will be very good for GWS. Because GWS can afford to give up 2nd rounders ( back then) because they get NGA's for cheap they could afford to give up a second for a one place swap.

It's canny drafting by the Saints, one of the ways we get the one hand tied behind our backs by the AFL a bit untied.
We used the second I think for pick swaps and Macrae, then used that pick yo trade up for Boxshall.
So we got our man Wilson, and the following year got Macrae and Boxshall from the second.
GWS got their man. So win win all round.

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Hopefully when they can't fit Leake in in a year or two we can give them a future second for him.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

You can literally just let the ball go after you've been tackled now. We should be training it.

No it won't work for StKilda.
Only for our opponents.

 

[Joffaboy]

Hopefully when they can't fit Leake in in a year or two we can give them a future second for him.

Lol, that would be fitting.
Haven't factored in that we got Henry with the future second then got it back for a few places further back.

And he was the frdp from 2019 you always crap on about [emoji6] ( yeah I know, can't let it go [emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787]).

I do think Henry, Macrae and Boxshall for a second is good trading/drafting.


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[gringo2011]

Lol, that would be fitting.
Haven't factored in that we got Henry with the future second then got it back for a few places further back.

And he was the frdp from 2019 you always crap on about [emoji6] ( yeah I know, can't let it go [emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787]).

I do think Henry, Macrae and Boxshall for a second is good trading/drafting.


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I was never against trading for Henry. That was good business. Paying too much for Hanners, Hill and Howard was diabolical still.

Funny enough they were doing a list of how badly the last 4 Essendon first round drafts have been with very little high end talent from them. I wonder what year our friend Troutly went over there.

 

[Joffaboy]

I was never against trading for Henry. That was good business. Paying too much for Hanners, Hill and Howard was diabolical still.

Funny enough they were doing a list of how badly the last 4 Essendon first round drafts have been with very little high end talent from them. I wonder what year our friend Troutly went over there.

Good old Dodoro, sorely missed.

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[SaintsSeptember]

I was never against trading for Henry. That was good business. Paying too much for Hanners, Hill and Howard was diabolical still.

Funny enough they were doing a list of how badly the last 4 Essendon first round drafts have been with very little high end talent from them. I wonder what year our friend Troutly went over there.

Howard was what? 23?, and a well regarded 200cm Key Position player , under contract until end of 2022.
He came with Paddy Ryder as well.
I don't think that a first round pick was way overs for that.

Bulldogs got Alex Keith cheaper but he was older and his abilities not as obvious.

We'd just come off a season where Jake Carlisle missed 10 games and the soon to retire Nathan Brown was "the man" ahead of Marsh and Rowe. I think that was the year Battle started at half back, but he was pretty green back then.

 

[StCicatriz]

Just on Hills game ross called him out in the presser and said he got tagged and sacrificed his game for the betterment of the team

 

[gringo2011]

Howard was what? 23?, and a well regarded 200cm Key Position player , under contract until end of 2022.
He came with Paddy Ryder as well.
I don't think that a first round pick was way overs for that.

Bulldogs got Alex Keith cheaper but he was older and his abilities not as obvious.

We'd just come off a season where Jake Carlisle missed 10 games and the soon to retire Nathan Brown was "the man" ahead of Marsh and Rowe. I think that was the year Battle started at half back, but he was pretty green back then.

Lets not start again. It was poor management because we were't a built list. Topping up to stay mid table is proper papering over your cracks of shame.

 

[phantom13]

Just on Hills game ross called him out in the presser and said he got tagged and sacrificed his game for the betterment of the team

Im never really convinced when this sort of stuff starts.

It doesnt really matter when you win though.

 

[NextYearPlease]

We were lucky Bailey Smith wasn't playing.

Geelong were lucky King, Sharmon, Howard, Phillopou, Henry, and Butler weren't p.aying.

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[Ads734]

Wilkie needs to get comfortable with Caminiti. Not there yet, it will come. Also Caminiti is not a cultured kick. To properly replace Battle you need a long, confident, penetrating kick. Caminiti is a long kick but not the others. Yet.

Honestly , re the kicking Battle was never that penetrating although he did develop into more of a running kicker.

On cama’s kicking. He definitely has areas to improve. I think getting off the mark a bit quicker and giving him self more space would be a good shout.

Ultimately it took battle probably three seasons of just games as a defender to become a reliable Backman.

Cama will frustrate at time but if this is what we’re set on I’d like to see him just persisted with. No chopping him around.

 

[Ads734]

I was never against trading for Henry. That was good business. Paying too much for Hanners, Hill and Howard was diabolical still.

Funny enough they were doing a list of how badly the last 4 Essendon first round drafts have been with very little high end talent from them. I wonder what year our friend Troutly went over there.

Didn’t you want Hobbes ?

 

[The Punter]

Honestly , re the kicking Battle was never that penetrating although he did develop into more of a running kicker.

On cama’s kicking. He definitely has areas to improve. I think getting off the mark a bit quicker and giving him self more space would be a good shout.

Ultimately it took battle probably three seasons of just games as a defender to become a reliable Backman.

Cama will frustrate at time but if this is what we’re set on I’d like to see him just persisted with. No chopping him around.

I don't agree with that assessment of Battle. In 2019 he played CHB at 21 and looked a natural fit. Then he got messed around for two years positionally (as well as all the COVID messing going on in the league), so when he was returned to his best position in 2022, it might have taken a little while to find his feet.

I'm sure Caminiti will be fine, but I just like him to kick long at this stage if he can't get an easy short pass away immediately. Battle could be relied upon to hit a distance target to advantage.

 

[Dard Ball Get]

Kennedy is probably a bit more high end than Owies but for importance to Carlton it looks like a terrible move. Like us cutting Butler hoping that Collard would just pick up the slack.

Oh, finally, you’ve arrived at the sensible conclusion

 

[Rogue Warrior]

I don't agree with that assessment of Battle. In 2019 he played CHB at 21 and looked a natural fit. Then he got messed around for two years positionally (as well as all the COVID messing going on in the league), so when he was returned to his best position in 2022, it might have taken a little while to find his feet.

I'm sure Caminiti will be fine, but I just like him to kick long at this stage if he can't get an easy short pass away immediately. Battle could be relied upon to hit a distance target to advantage.

I found it odd Caminitti was consistently used as the first outlet from a kick in, in the pocket, who then had the responsibility of the difficult next kick. He should have been a long tall target for the kick in, with a smaller better user drifting into the pocket

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Lets not start again. It was poor management because we were't a built list. Topping up to stay mid table is proper papering over your cracks of shame.

Its no good for anyone's development to play in a team without a full back.
Howard was mature , but not old at the time.
We'd drafted Clavarino, that sucked.

( interestingly, in reading this, he was never "that guy " , we might have wrecked his career - https://central.rookieme.com/afl/player/oscar-clavarino/ )

 

[Ads734]

I don't agree with that assessment of Battle. In 2019 he played CHB at 21 and looked a natural fit. Then he got messed around for two years positionally (as well as all the COVID messing going on in the league), so when he was returned to his best position in 2022, it might have taken a little while to find his feet.

I'm sure Caminiti will be fine, but I just like him to kick long at this stage if he can't get an easy short pass away immediately. Battle could be relied upon to hit a distance target to advantage.

Perhaps, I agree with you though. I just think stick Cama in defence and don’t f him around. Defenders need time, and more so time together. It’s been obvious to see times where young guys recently have mistimed going third man up, not covered the space etc.

 

[Saintsydney]

I don't agree with that assessment of Battle. In 2019 he played CHB at 21 and looked a natural fit. Then he got messed around for two years positionally (as well as all the COVID messing going on in the league), so when he was returned to his best position in 2022, it might have taken a little while to find his feet.

I'm sure Caminiti will be fine, but I just like him to kick long at this stage if he can't get an easy short pass away immediately. Battle could be relied upon to hit a distance target to advantage.

I thought from memory his kicking was very good on Saturday - just looked it up - his disposal efficiency was 83.3% I don't think anyone can complain about that

 

[SaintersUnite]

That's the whole point. They used the last pick in the draft and two years later he's in their best 6 players. Geelong keep finding these diamonds out of nowhere. They do it better than most.

Nas and Wilson are absolute blue chip prospects as is Phillipou but they were all our first pick in the draft. The equivalent would be if Schoenmaker ends up in our best 6 by the end of this year.

Need I remind you where we got Sinclair and Marshall from? [emoji6]


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[ScrappyDo]

Various reasons we looked gassed in the last ten.
1. 3 quarters of over 200 to 220 pressure with gang tackles and a defensive swarm, even in the 4th the pressure was in the 200's
2. A young group of debutants, and a bunch of players under ten games. Keeler was the example, cooked midway through the 3rd, battled hard although getting rinsed. Still had the go in him to take the match killing mark.
3. Only second game of the season still not match fit. Geelong doing most of the attack in the last 10 minutes were too gassed to finish the game off.
4. Going on from no.3, 6 day break coming off an interstate game v 7 day break after a light workout on their own dung heap.

I think all 4 reasons are valid.

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Definitely valid reasons and it's not a criticism by any stretch. I just think history shows that kind of manic pressure isn't sustainable week on week as the no1 method. It needs to be backed up with other attributes like some class outside kicking. If we had a fit list it would be better with more seasoned players who can switch tempo when needed.
Hopefully it comes with time, but ATM it's fine for where we're at. Most importantly the team can take some belief and in 2 games we've uncovered 3 new players in Hall, Irish and Hammer V2. Progress is progress.

 

[Ads734]

Need I remind you where we got Sinclair and Marshall from? [emoji6]


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Wilkie cough.

 

[gringo2011]

Didn’t you want Hobbes ?

I might have wanted Ward or Hobbs. Can't remember to be honest. I thought I wanted Rachele who I was big on and that year we were all pumped up on the three Sandy boys, only one is any good so far. I know I wanted a mid at the time.

I'm not a recruiter so would have had no control but I stand by the fact that trying to top up to push up the ladder extended the rebuild time frame out. Something we are still paying for now. We might have over achieved since taking Windy and Owens and jump a few but looking at North and Adelaide shows the benefits of doing a systematic rebuild. Carlton and Essendon have both done similar builds to us.

 

[gringo2011]

Need I remind you where we got Sinclair and Marshall from? [emoji6]


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Definitely have benefitted well from rookies. Geelong are experts at finding off broadway players who end up guns.