Saints stuff from Sainter

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It's interesting that people like Tim Watson accuse our club of celebrating wins too much. If anyone was to walk into the social club after the game on Saturday they would probably agree but that was a very emotional result for the club. Not only because it was Harvey's 250th win but also our first win in two months and only our 11th win since round 10 of 1999.

And along those lines, does anyone find it strange that the moment a team loses to us their team is suddenly under the pump and seemingly in crisis? The over-reaction to any loss to St Kilda astounds me. While it's disappointing that people view our club in this way and can't just accept the better team won on the night, it's also quite funny. On that note you have to give Danny Frawley credit. He acknowledged not only how well our guys did but that we also had something like 9 of our best 14 players out of the side. Our performance in recent years has meant we haven't warranted much praise or deserved any respect so I suppose it is understandable but I'm looking forward to seeing us return to the kind of team of 4 years ago that simply ran the opposition into the ground.

After a good performance last week, we are fortunate enough to have a game that is definitely winnable. The Eagles have been one of the surprise packets of 2002 but their form away from WA has been very suspect. They'll be keen to finally win a game in Melbourne and would expect to beat us comfortably. Our win last week means they probably won't underestimate us.

Maxie has beaten the likes of Neitz and Ottens in recent weeks, both far bigger men than himself, so I don't think he'd be overawed by playing the likes of Troy Wilson. One of their supporters on the eagles board took great delight in talking about how he ran through Riewoldt and Koschitzke in last years game. Interesting how small things amuse small minds. Brett Voss and Stevie Lawrence provided great run out of defence. Our midfield looks completely better with the return of Robert Harvey. When Spider returns, I'd back Harves, Thommo and Lenny to beat a lot of teams out of the middle. Nick Dal Santo and Xavier Clarke were excellent last week, playing like veterans. Crippa and Baker will quite possibly be looked at to tag Cousins out of the game which would go a fair way towards winning the game. In our forward line, Richmond's decision to play Darren Gaspar on Nick Riewoldt just shows how highly regarded he already is. That also freed up Stewie Loewe who I'd definitely back in against the 2nd key defender (or 3rd if Hamill plays).

All in all I think we are a huge chance to finally make it two wins in a row but that will have to depend on which St Kilda turns up to play. The aggressive and hard at it Saints line-up has often gone missing after a promising match the week before. The eagles have been win loss all season so will be determined to break their run as well. It might not be a pretty game but let's hope we can make it two in a row. I think all of us have been patient enough to deserve a bit of success,
 
How quick is Max though? In a stadium where there is no breeze and no sun to look into, it will be a bit man's day out. Wilson is damn fast on the lead and killed you last year because of this.

I think WC will come into the game with a lot of talls as they are all quite mobile. Who are some of the Saints talls? Haven't seen much of you this year. Dunno who will play on Riewoldt (sp?). Maybe Jako but if Riewoltd is too quick, probably McIntosh or Gaspar.

This was a line-up suggested by therealbuzz on our board:

FF/ D.Sierakowski......T.Wilson.............Ph.Matera
HF/ D.Wirrpunda........M.Gardiner.........T.Gaspar
CS/ C.Judd................D.Kerr................C.Fletcher
HB/ A.Williams............G.Jakovich..........M.Collica
FB/ J.Humm................A.McIntosh.........A.Hunter

RR/ D.Cox...................M.Braun.............B.Cousins

Bench - A.Embly, C.Chambers, R.Jones, J.Wooden.

Personally I think we will drop a tall for Gardiner coming back in and it will probably be Hunter or Embley. Gaspar might move down back as a result.

On this win-loss-win-loss.... thing of ours. If you had played Port Adelaide, Adelaide, West Coast and Fremantle away (take in mind this is comparitive to the teams we played in Melbourne), would you expect to have won most of those games?
 

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This is shaping as a really good match. Can't string two together versus can't win interstate. Two teams with something to prove who can come away with something pretty tangible if they win.

Strength will be a worry for Hudghton. I can see him having one of those unlucky landings after Wilson has stormed through a pack.
 
Originally posted by Savatage


A ****heap quicker than Troy Wilson.

Max would be one of the quickest at the club. Strength is my worry.

I think I've talked Troy Wilson up enough for one week (or one month, or the rest of the year..) but Troy Wilson's leads are lightning fast- don't know if someone can pick me up on this, but I remember reading somewhere that prior to football he was a pretty competent 100m sprinter- keep in mind that against Hawthorn, he was consistently beating Jonathan Hay to the ball by quite a considerable margin.
If St Kilda are going to win, they're going to have to win it in the midfield. If our onballers play with our usual 'melbourne form' then you have a chance.
I didn't see your game against Richmond last week, so I don't know- is the flood still on? Or with the injury woes easing, can we expect to see a more free flowing game?
 
Originally posted by Savatage
A ****heap quicker than Troy Wilson.
Jesus, he'll probably be quitting the Saints soon so he can join the Olympic Games squad as a sprinter. Willow probably has the most explosive pace of any full forward in the league. Left Jonathan Hay eating dust last weekend.

I reckon Harvey will be a problem for the Eagles. I refuse to believe that Josh Wooden is anything more than a hack, and seeing him line-up on Harvey would be unsettling. Maybe leaving Banners in the side would be better.

Also little Steven Milne could become a major headache.
Probably just a bit to slippery for Collica, and Hummer is still very young and still learning.
 
Originally posted by TheRealBuzz
Jesus, he'll probably be quitting the Saints soon so he can join the Olympic Games squad as a sprinter. Willow probably has the most explosive pace of any full forward in the league. Left Jonathan Hay eating dust last weekend.

I reckon Harvey will be a problem for the Eagles. I refuse to believe that Josh Wooden is anything more than a hack, and seeing him line-up on Harvey would be unsettling. Maybe leaving Banners in the side would be better.

Also little Steven Milne could become a major headache.
Probably just a bit to slippery for Collica, and Hummer is still very young and still learning.

I would have thought that Wooden has done some pretty good jobs on some big names this year. However, I do think maybe Banners might be better for Harvey, simply because I think Robert Harvey is one of those midfielders who is also very very strong in a physical sense, and I'm not sure that is Wooden's forte'. Having said that, he's surprised us several times this season already (I defy anyone to do as good a job on Ackermanis as he did.) and it might at least be worth a go- Buzz, a challenge for you- if Wooden gets Harvey for the majority of the game and does a good job on him (say, limits him to less than 20possies), will you rethink your hack classification??

Totally agree about Milne- we just don't have the defender to match up on him- pity Peter Matera isn't playing, otherwise he'd be the obvious choice. I'd give Humm the go to start, and if it doesn't come off, consider Collica or even pull Wirrpunda back into his tradition role? Actually, if Rowan Jones, Braun, and Banfield get the job on Harvey, I think Wooden would actually match up with Milne very well indeed. Say what you will about our bob franklin look alike, this season, Wooden has been quick, tenacious, and has always stuck with his man- ideal for a guy like Milne.
Which beggars a new question- Reiwoldt- CHB or CHF?
 
Considering Max destroyed David Neitz who had a massive strength advantage and Brad Ottens on Saturday night who must have be a foot taller and 15kg bigger, he's proven he can overcome strength and height with his own asset and that's his athleticism. Max's strength is his speed and athleticism so I don't think keeping up with Wilson would be a problem, although no full back can stop a full forward if his teams midfield is completely on top. For that reason obviously we'll have to win or at least break even in the midfield. Robert Harvey is getting back his match fitness and was probably the difference between the two sides on Saturday night. He has a prescence that lifts the rest of the team. Lenny Hayes is having his best ever start to a season, Thompson will give us his usual 25+ possessions out of the middle and a couple of kids like Xavier Clarke and Nick Dal Santo have performed very well so far and were far from overawed in a very emotional match for our team. I think Baker or Cripps will go with Cousins if we decide to play a negative type on him unless we go all out attack and play Harvey or Thompson against him. I would be a little more confident if we had the likes of Heath Black and Brett Moyle rotating through the midfield but it's not to be.

In fairness Visro, Wilson played on quite possibly the worst full back ever in Barry Hall who clearly had no idea how to play the position, and after that Mark Gale. Someone who you would all know is not a key position player. The obvious candidate would be Fraser Gehrig who was easily our best key defender all season last year but he is still 1-2 weeks away. We are well aware of playing under a roof, the majority of our games have been played underneath it. On the times we have been able to win the crowd have played a big role in getting the players home. In West Coast's advantage, the surface is quite hard and more akin to a Western Australian ground.

On Nick Riewoldt, he had 14 possessions, took 7 marks and kicked 2 goals against last year All-Australian Centre Half Back. If Harvey is given any latitude at all like on Saturday that's all he'll need to find Nick on the lead every time. The wildcard is Stewie Loewe. The highest mark taker in the history of the league is finally not getting the best opposition defender. I'd back him to win more often than not against the 2nd and 3rd defenders of most teams. The ability to stretch teams in defence is something we have not had in recent years.

Like I said in the first post we are a very big chance if the right St Kilda turn up to play. Like yourselves we've been up and down this season. I noticed in the Richmond bigfooty boards that last weeks game was going to be a "percentage booster" and a chance for an easy win. This week you are apparently playing "not a very good team" and if you lose will be "suicidal" (I am only quoting selected few people there ;)). West Coast are going into the match deserved favourites and considering we are so undermanned should win. I think we can win if the spirit is as good as last weekend. The chance to string consecutive wins together, let alone win a game, is something we haven't been able to do very often in the past 3.5 years. I expect us to put in a good show.
 
Originally posted by TheRealBuzz
Also little Steven Milne could become a major headache.
Probably just a bit to slippery for Collica, and Hummer is still very young and still learning.

I think any trouble the eagles will have in stopping Milne will be reciprocated by our trouble in nullifying Phil Matera. We may have started Aussie Jones had he not done his hamstring again. Probably Cripps would get the job as he did a great job on Matty Lappin earlier in the season.

Milne's kicked 18 goals this season to be our leading goal kicker. He's really improved his consistency this season and can do something to lift the team when the chips are down.
 
Originally posted by Mead
Buzz, a challenge for you- if Wooden gets Harvey for the majority of the game and does a good job on him (say, limits him to less than 20possies), will you rethink your hack classification?
Hmmmmm, I guess I might consider it. ;)

Sainter, thanks for the Saints perspective. Interesting to read, and will come in handy when I do my match preview.
 
Originally posted by sainter
It's interesting that people like Tim Watson accuse our club of celebrating wins too much. If anyone was to walk into the social club after the game on Saturday they would probably agree but that was a very emotional result for the club. Not only because it was Harvey's 250th

Obviously emotional for Harvey and Lowe. I have a question for you Sainters. After two blokes Harvey and Lowe dropped around at Spuds place at 4.30am on Saturday morning in what Spud described as being in a ordinary condition. My question is "WHO DROVE" I thought Caro on Talking Footy was not quite on the ball last night and should have asked the question. As for ther Saints and over celebrating "nar not Harvey and Lowe anyway"
 
some good pionts sainter.

i know that both west coat and the saints are hoping to get there number 1 ruckmen up for this week but can you tell me who has been doing the ruck in spider absence and how has he been performing?

west coast probably will be favourites but there are no easy wins or percentage boosters in this comp. if you go into a game with that attitude you will be beaten.

i'm hopeing for a close battle.
 
it is the 3 year anniversary of the last time we won two games in a row, how sad is that, rd 10 1999. :eek: ;)

i can't make a prediction until i see who's in for us. if everitt plays he will play at ff with a few brief bursts on the ball to relieve knobel. this will leave reiwoldt and loewe to stretch the eagles defensive talls. add hamill (maybe) and milne and all of the sudden the forward line is starting to look a bit more potent.

harvey, thompson and hayes will do most of the grunt work through the middle and the key to a saints win will be if baker or cripps can curb the influence of cousins.

max has been the unsung hero so far this year, and although he will give away body strength to wilson his pace and athleticism will be enough to keep wilson down to a manageable return.

as sainter has pointed out the richmond supporters last week were talking percentage. after having a quick squiz at the eagles board i had to laugh when posters are saying that they don't want to get ahead of themselves and then go and tell us how they are going to win the next 6 games and make the finals.

1 chicken, 2 chickens, 3 chickens. :D
 

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Originally posted by noodle
some good pionts sainter.

i know that both west coat and the saints are hoping to get there number 1 ruckmen up for this week but can you tell me who has been doing the ruck in spider absence and how has he been performing?

west coast probably will be favourites but there are no easy wins or percentage boosters in this comp. if you go into a game with that attitude you will be beaten.

i'm hopeing for a close battle.

The ruck duties have been shared between Trent Knobel and Matty Capuano so far. I think Knobel in particular has shown quite a lot. He's a little raw and is one of those players that is more of an athlete and doesn't have a history of playing footy so he'll take a while.

It looked as if Spider was going to be given at least one more week to rest but with Capuano now out for the next 4 weeks through injury combined with another strong performance on the track by Everitt it looks like returning he'll return this week.

I agree with STL in that Spider won't be match fit so it would be unlikely he'll spend a long period of time on the ball.

The likely return of Hamill will also be a significant boost to our forward line.
 
Originally posted by StrengthThroughLoyalty
as sainter has pointed out the richmond supporters last week were talking percentage. after having a quick squiz at the eagles board i had to laugh when posters are saying that they don't want to get ahead of themselves and then go and tell us how they are going to win the next 6 games and make the finals.

Nice select referencing there. You failed to mention that the people who said not to get ahead of themselves are different to those who are make bold statements like winning the next 6 games. Still, can't let the facts get in the way of a good story can we...
 
Originally posted by sainter


On Nick Riewoldt, he had 14 possessions, took 7 marks and kicked 2 goals against last year All-Australian Centre Half Back. If Harvey is given any latitude at all like on Saturday that's all he'll need to find Nick on the lead every time. The wildcard is Stewie Loewe. The highest mark taker in the history of the league is finally not getting the best opposition defender. I'd back him to win more often than not against the 2nd and 3rd defenders of most teams. The ability to stretch teams in defence is something we have not had in recent years.


You could back him against any teams 2nd defender but you have to remember that our 2nd defender is just as good as our 1st. Whichever one you wanna call our first defender, Jako or Milli? Riewoldt and Loewe will obviously be picked up by those two and i think we will win that battle. Hamill will get Collica, and IMO wont be a problem ... the guy im worried about is Milne and thats why i believe that Wooden should go back and take him.

Wooden has beaten Crawford and Akermanis this season but they are different players to Harvey. Harvey is so strong that i dont think Wooden will be able to handle him. Therefore Banfield should get the job, he did well on Lekkas last week. But Wooden should start on Harvey just to see how it goes, if Milne starts kicking goals or Harvey gets a lot of the ball then switch Pinnochio and Banners...

Im not sure why all you Saints fans are really worried about Wilson, sure he's a threat but i would be more worried about our other avenues to goal. Matera has kicked 15 goals, Wirrpunda 15, Cousins, Chambers, Judd and Williams have all kicked 11. Were the second highest scoring team in the country....worry about our scoring drive from the midfield rather than Wilson.

Anyways, i think it will be a good game and both teams have a lot to gain. The Saints are at home and have a chance at 2 in a row against a side that struggles away from home and we have the chance to string 2 games together, break our away hoodoo and cement a spot in the 8.

Plenty to play for makes for a good contest.

CARN THE EAGLES!
 
Originally posted by Visro


Nice select referencing there. You failed to mention that the people who said not to get ahead of themselves are different to those who are make bold statements like winning the next 6 games. Still, can't let the facts get in the way of a good story can we...

visro,

since when has giving both sides to an argument been relevant to writing about football. i've read so many articles from journalists like fatpryck smith, caroline wilson and mike sheahen that i'm now starting to write like them.

i feel so dirty. :eek: :D
 
Originally posted by jod23


You could back him against any teams 2nd defender but you have to remember that our 2nd defender is just as good as our 1st. Whichever one you wanna call our first defender, Jako or Milli? Riewoldt and Loewe will obviously be picked up by those two and i think we will win that battle. Hamill will get Collica, and IMO wont be a problem ... the guy im worried about is Milne and thats why i believe that Wooden should go back and take him.

now that everitt is playing he will probably go to ff, whos going to get him.?
 
Originally posted by StrengthThroughLoyalty


now that everitt is playing he will probably go to ff, whos going to get him.?

Well the teams on AFL.com have Everitt starting in the ruck and Riewoldt at CHB? Its hard to judge just where they will play on the day. I doubt Reiwoldt, Loewe and Everitt will all be forward at the one time, they will end up getting in eachothers way. But i feel Riewoldt will be wasted in defence and could get knocked out by Willow!

If Everitt starts at FF with Loewe at CHF then the obvious will happen, McIntosh on Spider and Jako on Loewe. Could all change come game day...

Is Spider coming back to early? I doubt he will have much influence on the game anyways...
 
Originally posted by jod23


Well the teams on AFL.com have Everitt starting in the ruck and Riewoldt at CHB? Its hard to judge just where they will play on the day. I doubt Reiwoldt, Loewe and Everitt will all be forward at the one time, they will end up getting in eachothers way. But i feel Riewoldt will be wasted in defence and could get knocked out by Willow!

If Everitt starts at FF with Loewe at CHF then the obvious will happen, McIntosh on Spider and Jako on Loewe. Could all change come game day...

Is Spider coming back to early? I doubt he will have much influence on the game anyways...

The way i see it, both teams star ruckmen may or may not be fit, and should or shouldn't be playing. I hope for both teams sakes that their match committee get it right- Everitt going down again would hurt the saints badly, and I'd obviously be pretty upset if Gardie gets reaggravates the hamstring
 
Spider's been in full training for the last three weeks and is definitely fit to play.

He'll be lacking match fitness so I suspect he'd be spending long periods of time in the forward line with perhaps the odd burst in the ruck.

He's been passed fit to play by the medical staff. The club were originally going to give him an extra weeks break but due to Matty Capuano's knee operation a few days ago (4-6 weeks) he'll be needed to assist Trent Knobel.

I'm not expecting Spider to star or anything. He'll be better for the run. The inclusion of Hamill is a big bonus because it will allow us to stretch the eagles defence a little more. Even if his logical opponent would be say Collica, it does give your team a little bit to think about if one of the forwards is on top. Obviously the same thing goes in your forward line.

Brett Moyle is a huge inclusion. Not many youngsters have stepped up and averaged 20 to 25 possessions a game yet hardly be spoken about. He's been out all season with a very serious corked thigh. He's another that isn't match fit but last year he broke his leg, missed 8 weeks, and ended up getting 25+ possessions in his first game back. This year he's missed 9 already, perhaps the club will ease him back through our VFL side.

I don't expect Beetham to play this week nor Josh Houlihan to make his debut. Saints fans will be looking forward to seeing how Josh goes in the future because it's believe that he's the best of the 4 brothers.
 

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