Coach Saints to sign Ratten to new deal

[Premium]

Good news Ratten getting a 3yr deal , good coach and good bloke - has made the atmosphere at the club better than it has ever been.

 

[austinnn]

This is turning into the Where Are We At As A Club or Coaching thread but my feeling about is right now is that we are a solid top 4 club, definitely capable of winning 2 finals and on the right day taking it right up to the top team and even beating them.

But I don't think we currently have the hardest last 10% needed to be convincingly better or as good as the top team. Maybe I'm wrong, and maybe there's nothing that separates a team like 2021 Demons and 2022 Saints except experience.

But regardless, Ratten is definitely as good as Goodwin in my estimation. I think the difference between the aforementioned teams is more about the players than the system.

I'm still not sure Ratts is the best game day coach and he's definitely no Jürgen Klopp, in terms of inspiring the players, he is closer to Brendan Rodgers with patter that some of his boys visibly tune out to. I'd be happier giving him 2 year than 3, and I'd rather wait til we've played Kangaroos, Lions, Dons, Swans and Blues but that will take us to Round 17 and it's too risky. Maybe after the Lions we should know what we've got.

 

[lewdogs]

There's another level to this which is what is the right thing to do ethically.

Imagine being in a leadership role, transforming the club like Ratts has and not having a contract until the finals because we still might slip up?

If we want to be a good club we need to do right by our people. Sure there's always a chance we might go belly up but by the same token no coach should have a contract beyond one year.

If you can't see we're moving in the right direction then you're blind in my opinion. Ratts has earned another three years, he and his family deserve that security.

 

[stavro#4]

There's another level to this which is what is the right thing to do ethically.

Imagine being in a leadership role, transforming the club like Ratts has and not having a contract until the finals because we still might slip up?

If we want to be a good club we need to do right by our people. Sure there's always a chance we might go belly up but by the same token no coach should have a contract beyond one year.

If you can't see we're moving in the right direction then you're blind in my opinion. Ratts has earned another three years, he and his family deserve that security.

You are calling people blind but then saying a multi million dollar business should be making ethical decisions.

Not decisions in their best interests by waiting 1-2-3 months longer if required - even if they are both the same decision.

 

[Remboy]

There's another level to this which is what is the right thing to do ethically.

Imagine being in a leadership role, transforming the club like Ratts has and not having a contract until the finals because we still might slip up?

If we want to be a good club we need to do right by our people. Sure there's always a chance we might go belly up but by the same token no coach should have a contract beyond one year.

If you can't see we're moving in the right direction then you're blind in my opinion. Ratts has earned another three years, he and his family deserve that security.

Good point. There’s also the aspect of what it tells prospective future coaches. We’ll only offer limited terms and if you don't make finals you’re out? I don’t think there would be many applicants.

 

[Joffaboy]

Good point. There’s also the aspect of what it tells prospective future coaches. We’ll only offer limited terms and if you don't make finals you’re out? I don’t think there would be many applicants.

Yeas this is correct. So from what I can gather, the people who want more results before signing him are say if the team goes poorly and makes the 8 in say 7th and we lose the final, that they want us to basically sack the coach and get someone else?

Everyone realises that we would lose all the assistants, probably Rath and throw the club into turmoil over summer over a 'relatively' successful season, don't they?

For years I have heard on here who we are a rabble off field and the admin is useless and we keep making mistakes. So after we are finally in a good place admin wise at the Saints, recruiting seems to be going well, assistant coaches are making a difference, membership up, playing group happy, and playing good football, people want to go back to being a rabble?

I find this interesting.

 

[gringo2011]

This is turning into the Where Are We At As A Club or Coaching thread but my feeling about is right now is that we are a solid top 4 club, definitely capable of winning 2 finals and on the right day taking it right up to the top team and even beating them.

But I don't think we currently have the hardest last 10% needed to be convincingly better or as good as the top team. Maybe I'm wrong, and maybe there's nothing that separates a team like 2021 Demons and 2022 Saints except experience.

But regardless, Ratten is definitely as good as Goodwin in my estimation. I think the difference between the aforementioned teams is more about the players than the system.

I'm still not sure Ratts is the best game day coach and he's definitely no Jürgen Klopp, in terms of inspiring the players, he is closer to Brendan Rodgers with patter that some of his boys visibly tune out to. I'd be happier giving him 2 year than 3, and I'd rather wait til we've played Kangaroos, Lions, Dons, Swans and Blues but that will take us to Round 17 and it's too risky. Maybe after the Lions we should know what we've got.

Yeah, I don't know about his communication style. To me he's uninspiring and talks in footy platitudes and wishy washy inspirational quotes. Some of his on field moves look a bit poorly thought out or over thought, That said I think he's more of a modern coach than our last few. He's a delegator who uses his assistants and their input to help build the game plan.

He's definitely a step forward but perhaps not a leap forward. I honestly feel like we have a list capable of going to the top with the competition where it is. We need injury luck and a few guys retiring to their peak. You don't play history you only play what's up against you.

If we get Jones playing like he did at his best, Steele, Gresham, Clark etc and Max King and Snags can play finals like they play at their best then we have very solid mid field and forward set up. I think our defensive lines are strong and run deep as well.


To me we are holding back based on trying not to be disappointed, not what's on the field. Top 4 should be absolutely an expectation. If we don't get there it's because Freo, Geelong, Carlton pushed us aside. I'd be very disappointed if that was the case. They aren't better than us.

 

[George]

There's another level to this which is what is the right thing to do ethically.

Imagine being in a leadership role, transforming the club like Ratts has and not having a contract until the finals because we still might slip up?

If we want to be a good club we need to do right by our people. Sure there's always a chance we might go belly up but by the same token no coach should have a contract beyond one year.

If you can't see we're moving in the right direction then you're blind in my opinion. Ratts has earned another three years, he and his family deserve that security.

Yeah it's really poor management to leave it into the final month of the year. It's not as black and white as saying "well there's no clubs chasing him so we can wait". That doesn't acknowledge the issues that waiting could create, in that it shows to supporters but more importantly the actual football club that we have little faith in Ratten, and then if that's the case we don't know how he will respond or if it will cause a bit of disconnect between he and the football club.

Any time before Round 15 I'm fine with. Professional clubs don't wait as late as the last month or the end of the year to offer an out of contract coach a new deal, it just doesn't happen regardless if clubs think their guy is the man or not. Clubs need to plan for the following season and so do players and coaches.

We need to do the right thing by Ratts and give him a new deal soon, or let him know he is not required beyond this year. Waiting around to me shows poor professionalism.

 

[triggering bro]

LOL Now the same people having a go at you about Ratts are saying he has know idea and can't set up a forward line

If you want a good laugh go back & have a look at how protective those posters were over Cho who is statistically one of the worst coaches in the history of the game!

 

[gringo2011]

Yeas this is correct. So from what I can gather, the people who want more results before signing him are say if the team goes poorly and makes the 8 in say 7th and we lose the final, that they want us to basically sack the coach and get someone else?

Everyone realises that we would lose all the assistants, probably Rath and throw the club into turmoil over summer over a 'relatively' successful season, don't they?

For years I have heard on here who we are a rabble off field and the admin is useless and we keep making mistakes. So after we are finally in a good place admin wise at the Saints, recruiting seems to be going well, assistant coaches are making a difference, membership up, playing group happy, and playing good football, people want to go back to being a rabble?

I find this interesting.

I want the best for the club. Accepting okay is what sets mediocrity as our base line. I think we've been so traumatised by the last 10 years having a stable on and off field set up seems like bliss.

If you think by the time Ratts finishes his contract Steele and that generation are in their footy twilight it's not as attractive to accept okay. We are in the window now. I see it as a GT v Lyon situation right now. GT had us in prelims and we looked good but Lyon took us to the edge of immortality and was a whisker off being a legend.

As Stav said, we aren't here to be a nice club, we are in business to win premierships. We have finally got the list to a point where it should challenge for top 4 and take it up to most.

Ratts is absolutely in the box seat but just because he is what we know we shouldn't rush into the decision. It's like going from an abusive relationship and accepting the first person that doesn't hit us to me. It's still worth assessing for a bit longer before agreeing to marriage.

 

[gringo2011]

Good point. There’s also the aspect of what it tells prospective future coaches. We’ll only offer limited terms and if you don't make finals you’re out? I don’t think there would be many applicants.

Most young coaches just want a gig, if Clarkson comes it's because we offer money and a capable list. I doubt a few weeks would make anyone disinterested.

 

[lewdogs]

You are calling people blind but then saying a multi million dollar business should be making ethical decisions.

Not decisions in their best interests by waiting 1-2-3 months longer if required - even if they are both the same decision.

I'll say it again but we have waited. Ethics are important, making a bloke wait until the end of the season because you're still expecting him to fail when all the evidence is against it is unfair. The players obviously love Ratten, how will they feel if he is into the last month of the season without a contract?

Every contract on some level is a leap of faith. You could argue that you should never re-sign a player until the last month of the season because they might get injured. Look at what we did with Hayes, if you act ethically then it can have a positive impact on the club.

I'm not suggesting we don't make tough decisions for the benefit of the club and act ruthlessly on some level. In this case I think we have been fairly ruthless, we've waited until the last minute but you're saying we still have to play all these tough sides, but half of them we have beaten THIS YEAR. The evidence is there that Ratten is taking this club forward, and more importantly those on the inside who know much better than us are seeing that and re-signing him.

I know that there's a tendency on this board to suggest that our administration has no idea, but if you look at where the likes of Lethlean have taken us over the past four years the trajectory is up. I know we were burned by Richo's re-signing but this is very different.

 

[lewdogs]

I want the best for the club. Accepting okay is what sets mediocrity as our base line. I think we've been so traumatised by the last 10 years having a stable on and off field set up seems like bliss.

If you think by the time Ratts finishes his contract Steele and that generation are in their footy twilight it's not as attractive to accept okay. We are in the window now. I see it as a GT v Lyon situation right now. GT had us in prelims and we looked good but Lyon took us to the edge of immortality and was a whisker off being a legend.

As Stav said, we aren't here to be a nice club, we are in business to win premierships. We have finally got the list to a point where it should challenge for top 4 and take it up to most.

Ratts is absolutely in the box seat but just because he is what we know we shouldn't rush into the decision. It's like going from an abusive relationship and accepting the first person that doesn't hit us to me. It's still worth assessing for a bit longer before agreeing to marriage.

You know what I find quite funny. For years you bang on about how s**t the club is, recruiting pathetic, too many reject recruits, players soft etc.

Now all of a sudden we have a top four list and anything less is a failure.

On some level if you think we have a top four list now you have to give some credit to Lethlean. Because we sure as hell didn't have a top four list when he arrived.

And on the same level surely you can have some faith that he'll make the right call in re-signing the coach that has also seen over the sudden development of this top four list.

 

[BrutThough]

LOL Now the same people having a go at you about Ratts are saying he has know idea and can't set up a forward line

Almost as if someone can think Ratts is a good coach while also disagreeing with the current forward set up.

Next time you want to make comments about me, either reply to the comment you disagree with or keep your childish bitching to PMs.

 

[Foucault1989]

Ratts is a gem of a person and coach. I think he has been great for the Saints. Hope he gets some success. Both supporters and Ratts deserve it

 

[Joffaboy]

I want the best for the club. Accepting okay is what sets mediocrity as our base line. I think we've been so traumatised by the last 10 years having a stable on and off field set up seems like bliss.

If you think by the time Ratts finishes his contract Steele and that generation are in their footy twilight it's not as attractive to accept okay. We are in the window now. I see it as a GT v Lyon situation right now. GT had us in prelims and we looked good but Lyon took us to the edge of immortality and was a whisker off being a legend.

As Stav said, we aren't here to be a nice club, we are in business to win premierships. We have finally got the list to a point where it should challenge for top 4 and take it up to most.

Ratts is absolutely in the box seat but just because he is what we know we shouldn't rush into the decision. It's like going from an abusive relationship and accepting the first person that doesn't hit us to me. It's still worth assessing for a bit longer before agreeing to marriage.

So you don't care of the repercussions of sacking a coach making finals, losing all the assistants, and throwing the club into a summer of chaos.
So we get a new coach? Who BTW? New gameplan, new assistants, another season to bed down.
As we do this the exact same situation happens to our player list, it's window closes.
So we throw out what is working, on what? Some vague hope some unknown coach may, perhaps maybe be better.
Just like sacking Thommo wasted 2007 and 2008, we were just about cooked in 2009 and 2010.
We are entering our window and you want to have chaos on the off chance.

You need to guarantee whoever replaces Ratts will be better for the Saints and frankly you can't.
Wreckless and reakes of desperation IMO.

 

[stavro#4]

So you don't care of the repercussions of sacking a coach making finals, losing all the assistants, and throwing the club into a summer of chaos.
So we get a new coach? Who BTW? New gameplan, new assistants, another season to bed down.
As we do this the exact same situation happens to our player list, it's window closes.
So we throw out what is working, on what? Some vague hope some unknown coach may, perhaps maybe be better.
Just like sacking Thommo wasted 2007 and 2008, we were just about cooked in 2009 and 2010.
We are entering our window and you want to have chaos on the off chance.

You need to guarantee whoever replaces Ratts will be better for the Saints and frankly you can't.
Wreckless and reakes of desperation IMO.

No one is advocating sacking him.

People are just saying. Cool the jets. We are talking a 3 year deal.

8 weeks could prevent buyers remorse. It however should completely back the clubs decision to take rattens tenure to 6 1/2 seasons when we can see him go through a very tough part of our fixture.

No one is arguing what he has done for the football program. But there are some small questions around his match day coaching and I think genuine questions are whether he is a coach of a top 4 side.

He isn’t going anywhere. There isn’t another club. This is us giving Ratten another 3 year deal and it will be more money. The smart decision is to leave the bridge down another couple of months and just tick off that what we are seeing is legitimate improvement. That last year was the blip. That 20’ and 22’ are a true reflection of what he is capable of.

Considering the next move after Ratten is a trade or a free agent. You want to be backing the right horse with everything you have.

I want him re-signed. But I want to feel really confident what we have is good enough to win us a flag. I’m not there YET. The next 8 weeks could do to help me feel like it’s the right call.

That’s the path I want the club to take.

 

[stavro#4]

Almost as if someone can think Ratts is a good coach while also disagreeing with the current forward set up.

Next time you want to make comments about me, either reply to the comment you disagree with or keep your childish bitching to PMs.

Mowman is a good bloke. Take a chill pill

 

[gringo2011]

You know what I find quite funny. For years you bang on about how s**t the club is, recruiting pathetic, too many reject recruits, players soft etc.

Now all of a sudden we have a top four list and anything less is a failure.

On some level if you think we have a top four list now you have to give some credit to Lethlean. Because we sure as hell didn't have a top four list when he arrived.

And on the same level surely you can have some faith that he'll make the right call in re-signing the coach that has also seen over the sudden development of this top four list.

I have credited Lethlean quite regularly. He's made heaps of hard calls. He's also ****ed some s**t up.

It's quite funny that what ever the club dish up it's always right and the criticism is unwarranted in your eyes.

We are moving forward because we aren't just signing people up because they are okay at their job. Our decade of mediocrity was exactly the outcome of that attitude across the board.

 

[gringo2011]

Almost as if someone can think Ratts is a good coach while also disagreeing with the current forward set up.

Next time you want to make comments about me, either reply to the comment you disagree with or keep your childish bitching to PMs.

Oh come on man you and your buddy love the childish bitching as much as we do. You know we'd beat you in a fight behind the shelter sheds after school anyway.

 

[gringo2011]

Ratts is a gem of a person and coach. I think he has been great for the Saints. Hope he gets some success. Both supporters and Ratts deserve it

We hope so too.

 

[lewdogs]

I have credited Lethlean quite regularly. He's made heaps of hard calls. He's also ducked some s**t up.

It's quite funny that what ever the club dish up it's always right and the criticism is unwarranted in your eyes.

We are moving forward because we aren't just signing people up because they are okay at their job. Our decade of mediocrity was exactly the outcome of that attitude across the board.

You've been criticising most decisions the club has made for years and I've backed most of them. A good example is the review last year and president email which you roundly trashed.

How are we going now? A top four side according to you. So yeah maybe backing the club regularly isn't as dumb as you make it out to be.

So yeah I'm not surprised you'd say we shouldn't re-sign Ratts and would criticise those that back the club in, but going on your recent form I wouldn't think that would be a good take.

 

[bird_man]

I'm not 100% convinced yet. No-one is poaching him. There is no down side to waiting. There maybe if we sign him.

Win this week and I can't see how we miss finals.

What do we get out of waiting until the end of the year to sign the bloke?

All it does is take the focus off our footy and onto why we haven't signed our coach who will likely have us top 4 at the half way mark of the season.

In all honesty though I think 2 years is enough.

 

[bird_man]

Yeah, I don't know about his communication style. To me he's uninspiring and talks in footy platitudes and wishy washy inspirational quotes. Some of his on field moves look a bit poorly thought out or over thought, That said I think he's more of a modern coach than our last few. He's a delegator who uses his assistants and their input to help build the game plan.

He's definitely a step forward but perhaps not a leap forward. I honestly feel like we have a list capable of going to the top with the competition where it is. We need injury luck and a few guys retiring to their peak. You don't play history you only play what's up against you.

If we get Jones playing like he did at his best, Steele, Gresham, Clark etc and Max King and Snags can play finals like they play at their best then we have very solid mid field and forward set up. I think our defensive lines are strong and run deep as well.


To me we are holding back based on trying not to be disappointed, not what's on the field. Top 4 should be absolutely an expectation. If we don't get there it's because Freo, Geelong, Carlton pushed us aside. I'd be very disappointed if that was the case. They aren't better than us.

Just got to listen to the players to see how happy they are at the moment and how the club feels like a big family.

Coaching isn't about how good you can give a good rev up speech these days. It's more about good tactics and building relationships.

 

[ScrappyDo]

You are calling people blind but then saying a multi million dollar business should be making ethical decisions.

Not decisions in their best interests by waiting 1-2-3 months longer if required - even if they are both the same decision.

Pretty friggn simple actually.
Agree on terms and agree to sign when finals are secured, be that round 14 or 23.

If the wheels fall off do we want a 3 year contract to honor? Duck no.