Review Saints vs Cats review

[Crusty Undies]

Ok, different terminology but same acronym.
Get that.
But TOG is expressed as %?
That's not a measure of frequency, that's a proportional measurement.
TOG % which is what I'm asking about, and which is the figure reported in the media (eg: today's Age).

Ross had 81.6% tog in 2016, Steven 81.95% in 2016, Armo ave 78.3% 16, and 82.3% 15, Dunstan ave 70.5% in 16 and 69.2% in 17.

 

[PoppedCorn]

Joey

 

[SaintsSeptember]

2016 averages.
Wines, 74%
Matt and Brad Crouch 71%
Andrew Swallow 74%
Dahlhaus 75%
Shiel 74%

Its not a big deal IF there is an impact when they are on.

 

[sunny3193]

Okay.
From all that one can only conclude that TOG % is:

• Not a measure of an individual's stamina,
• Not a meaningful measure if the rotation protocols are not known and,
• Useful only in comparison with other statistics that involve individual acts.

Apart from that, all good.

 

[Saint Watto]

Like with the Saints now. I mean, most of us are paid up members and have known exactly where we are at with our re-build. The club has been transparent with their list building. We have known that we have prioritised picking up KPPs at the expense of midfielders

A Great post there Narkles...........it's just so easy for so many(me included at times) to get caught up in the weekly footy cycle rather than looking at the long term picture.

Well,it's probably a daily footy cycle....if things don't look right or the results don't happen as anticipated,panic sets in.

Sure...it's been a frustrating start to the season...especially when a lot of the media pumped up our tyres big time.

I can't imagine for a second that the coaching staff....top to bottom, aren't reviewing the same issues/topics as are mentioned on here.

For me at this point of time,the really sobering thing is how many players from our last 4 drafts are up and running.......I think..."give it all more time"

This I believe will be a consolidation/review year.

 

[Periphery]

Okay.
From all that one can only conclude that TOG % is:

• Not a measure of an individual's stamina,
• Not a meaningful measure if the rotation protocols are not known and,
• Useful only in comparison with other statistics that involve individual acts.

Apart from that, all good.

Except Dunstan's TOG% is such an outlier that it's clearly due to a lack of tank. There is no other reason why he'd spend so much time off the field if he didn't have to.

 

[Jade Buddha]

Actually it'll be pretty funny to watch who the board turn on when Dunstans does go out of the team.

Gotta have someone to blame right?

 

[Glen Buterol]

Actually it'll be pretty funny to watch who the board turn on when Dunstans does go out of the team.

Gotta have someone to blame right?

Whoevers consistently playing s**t?

 

[Jade Buddha]

Whoevers conistently playing s**t?

Consistently?

 

[Mowman]

Consistently?

Yep Consistently

 

[Jade Buddha]

Yep Consistently

Think you might want to go back and watch a few of the earlier games, Dunstan has played well this year regardless of the consistent sh$#bagging.

 

[Glen Buterol]

Dunstan won't get dropped anyway. Stevens recovering from concussion & Armo out for 4 weeks gives him a reprieve.

 

[Mowman]

Think you might want to go back and watch a few of the earlier games, Dunstan has played well this year regardless of the consistent sh$#bagging.

He had 12 touches against the Cats and 11 touches against the pies, has had 2 good games out 5 this year and was very lucky to get as many games as he did last year.

 

[gringo2011]

Whoevers consistently playing s**t?

Bring Lonie back, he goes pretty well as a whipping boy, he's one slipped tackle off full melt down most weeks.

 

[Jade Buddha]

He had 12 touches against the Cats and 11 touches against the pies, has had 2 good games out 5 this year and was very lucky to get as many games as he did last year.

Yep he's had a couple of ordinary games but you said he was consistently sh&t. What do you think the coaches are asking of him currently? what's his role? Do you think he'd be being selected if that were the case?

You'd definately want him to be getting more possessions but "consistently sh&t", really?

 

[Ian Dunross]

More positives than negatives out of this one.

Watching our midfield match ups closely.

Often times it was Acres or Dunstan on Selwood in the centre square, so no surprise they got out muscled to the ball. Both inexperienced against a hardened champion. We have such little experience after Ross and Steven. Steele and Acres will keep developing. Dunstan appears to be regressing before my eyes despite what I said in pre-season.

 

[Jade Buddha]

More positives than negatives out of this one.

Watching our midfield match ups closely.

Often times it was Acres or Dunstan on Selwood in the centre square, so no surprise they got out muscled to the ball. Both inexperienced against a hardened champion. We have such little experience after Ross and Steven. Steele and Acres will keep developing. Dunstan appears to be regressing before my eyes despite what I said in pre-season.

Ross was put on Selwood in that last quarter.

 

[Mowman]

Yep he's had a couple of ordinary games but you said he was consistently sh&t. What do you think the coaches are asking of him currently? what's his role? Do you think he'd be being selected if that were the case?

You'd definately want him to be getting more possessions but "consistently sh&t", really?

Yes I 100% think he needs time at Sandy its not only the lack of ball gets its how much his opponent gets and hurts us the other way because of his lack of leg speed. Our midfield is our weakest link which needs to improve and would rather see Steele Arces Gresham Billings getting a run there, Dunstan has had 58 games and just doesn't get enough of it 14 of his 18 games last year he had 20 or less touches. he just doesn't have the spread to keep up with todays game

 

[StCicatriz]

Except Dunstan's TOG% is such an outlier that it's clearly due to a lack of tank. There is no other reason why he'd spend so much time off the field if he didn't have to.

This.

 

[VDS66]

Funny thing is that had we won by a kick, people would be melting that we controlled the game and we're lucky to hold on blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah...

 

[sunny3193]

Except Dunstan's TOG% is such an outlier that it's clearly due to a lack of tank. There is no other reason why he'd spend so much time off the field if he didn't have to.

Maybe......

If you consider a TOG% of 70% as an outlier. (See as quoted above by Crustie Undies).
When running 6 mids produces an average 67% TOG.

This TOG% argument really only has legs if we know the rotation protocols (which no one on this board does) or it is used in conjunction with individual act KPI's.

Otherwise it's just as useful as quoting time on ground in furlongs per fortnight.

 

[sonnywalters]

Except Dunstan's TOG% is such an outlier that it's clearly due to a lack of tank. There is no other reason why he'd spend so much time off the field if he didn't have to.

You also have to watch his last quarters. Looks like he is in quick-sand and has hardly touched the ball in all 5 last quarters this year.

 

[Periphery]

Maybe......

If you consider a TOG% of 70% as an outlier. (See as quoted above by Crustie Undies).
When running 6 mids produces an average 67% TOG.

This TOG% argument really only has legs if we know the rotation protocols (which no one on this board does) or it is used in conjunction with individual act KPI's.

Otherwise it's just as useful as quoting time on ground in furlongs per fortnight.

How's this then:

In the Champion Data prospectus they list the amount of minutes a player spends on the ground. Dunstan spent 85 minutes per game on the ground last year. That was the 4th lowest of anyone at the Saints. The only players that spent less time was: Goddard, McCartin and Pierce. Goddard and McCartin both had their times seriously impacted by injury while Pierce played only one game - his first.

All our other players classified by CD as midfielders had over 94 minutes: Armo 94, Ross 98, Steven 99, Newnes 107.

From a brief glance through the rest of the teams, most established mids are around that 100min mark. It's hard to find many around 85min and all that I've found are younger with way less games played or were players that got injured.

Can you explain this?

 

[sunny3193]

How's this then:

In the Champion Data prospectus they list the amount of minutes a player spends on the ground. Dunstan spent 85 minutes per game on the ground last year. That was the 4th lowest of anyone at the Saints. The only players that spent less time was: Goddard, McCartin and Pierce. Goddard and McCartin both had their times seriously impacted by injury while Pierce played only one game - his first.

All our other players classified by CD as midfielders had over 94 minutes: Armo 94, Ross 98, Steven 99, Newnes 107.

From a brief glance through the rest of the teams, most established mids are around that 100min mark. It's hard to find many around 85min and all that I've found are younger with way less games played or were players that got injured.

Can you explain this?

No because I don't know the rotation protocols.

 

[Periphery]

No because I don't know the rotation protocols.

I found the rotation protocols for you:
Protocol 1 - Dunstan gets winded walking up a flight of stairs. Get him off the ground as much as possible.