Salary Cap question

PieLebo87

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Thread starter #1
I’m trying to find the answer to this question, and was hoping someone could help.

Using GWS as the example, with them clearing cap space by trading out players.

In the event the fax machine was to play up again tonight at 8:30, and they’re not able to trade Shiel/anyone else to create that cap space, which results in trades not going through, they would then be over their salary cap for 2019.

What exactly happens? Are they penalised by the AFL?

I know you can be a percentage over one year and then be under the following to balance it out (I think) but what if the cap is breached because of a non trade?
 

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Elroo

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#2
I’m trying to find the answer to this question, and was hoping someone could help.

Using GWS as the example, with them clearing cap space by trading out players.

In the event the fax machine was to play up again tonight at 8:30, and they’re not able to trade Shiel/anyone else to create that cap space, which results in trades not going through, they would then be over their salary cap for 2019.

What exactly happens? Are they penalised by the AFL?

I know you can be a percentage over one year and then be under the following to balance it out (I think) but what if the cap is breached because of a non trade?
Your asking if the AFL run by this man would penalise a club they have set up for breaching AFL rules?

If they did penalise GWS, the investigation would be carried out by the work experience kid, and the penalties would be announced at 23:59hrs on New Years eve, with the penalties suspended until a new work experience kid was found. Besides that it would all be signed off by AFL HQ as legit in the end.


275475-90158dce-d01b-11e3-ae84-eacdfc097015.jpg
 

76woodenspooners

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#7
While we have this thread, I have a different question ...

... do players get paid for playing in finals?

If not ...

... then players effectively play finals for free with no financial incentive? Of course players do like playing in finals, but I’m sure they also like cruising around the Greek Islands for an extra four weeks as well.

If so ...

... then players who play for clubs that play in finals would be earning more, giving the better clubs an advantage at attracting better talent. And how would clubs budget for playing / not playing in finals within their max / min salary cap spend?
 

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exile

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Who the **** uses a fax machine still?
manchester united and real madrid were reportedly organising a transfer for david de gea to return to spain in 2015. supposedly one of the club's fax machines broke right before the transfer deadline was up, and the transfer didn't go through.
 

craffles

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#16
While we have this thread, I have a different question ...

... do players get paid for playing in finals?

If not ...

... then players effectively play finals for free with no financial incentive? Of course players do like playing in finals, but I’m sure they also like cruising around the Greek Islands for an extra four weeks as well.

If so ...

... then players who play for clubs that play in finals would be earning more, giving the better clubs an advantage at attracting better talent. And how would clubs budget for playing / not playing in finals within their max / min salary cap spend?
+1 someone help us understand
 

Tas

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#17
I’m trying to find the answer to this question, and was hoping someone could help.

Using GWS as the example, with them clearing cap space by trading out players.

In the event the fax machine was to play up again tonight at 8:30, and they’re not able to trade Shiel/anyone else to create that cap space, which results in trades not going through, they would then be over their salary cap for 2019.

What exactly happens? Are they penalised by the AFL?

I know you can be a percentage over one year and then be under the following to balance it out (I think) but what if the cap is breached because of a non trade?
There is no faxing, you deal live with the AFL.

I think the AFL is sweeping something GWS did off the books under the AFL sized rug to avoid penalising them and denying them access to finals next year, I don't think it is possible to go over cap by the magnitude some of the claims have suggested through legitimate dealings. AFL are meant to approve all contracts, they would have known GWS would have gone massively over their 2019 TPP had they all been legitimate contracts and they would have/should have denied those contracts.
 

harrythetiger

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#18
Can’t you still delist players for a few weeks? Thought the actual list submission deadline was a bit away.

As an aside I think a salary cap is far easier to understand if it’s just a salary cap -not a floor/range with the ability to not even follow it if you play your cards right.
 

exile

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Moderator #19
While we have this thread, I have a different question ...

... do players get paid for playing in finals?

If not ...

... then players effectively play finals for free with no financial incentive? Of course players do like playing in finals, but I’m sure they also like cruising around the Greek Islands for an extra four weeks as well.

If so ...

... then players who play for clubs that play in finals would be earning more, giving the better clubs an advantage at attracting better talent. And how would clubs budget for playing / not playing in finals within their max / min salary cap spend?
http://www.aflplayers.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/2017-2022-CBA.pdf

the link above is for the current CBA for afl players.

from what i can tell, the total player payments is the "salary cap" for each club.

point 10 refers to total player payments, of which it states that the following payments are not taken into account in the total player payments:

- relocation benefits
- bereavement assistance
- payments made to rookies temporarily promoted to primary list
- some forms of marketing contracts
- payments made under an independent agreement
- testimonial payments
- match payments (at player's contract rate for matches played in the afl premiership season) made to players participating in the afl finals series
- cost of air fares
- prize money paid

there's also a minimum base salary and minimum senior match payment (first & second year players, rookie listed players have slightly reduced values). for 2018, the minimum senior match payment was $5000. it would differ per player's individual contract, and i reckon there would be some contracts that would have incentives for playing in finals.

a prize money pool of $1.1mil (ex GST) will also be distributed to the AFL clubs which finish in the top 4 in an AFL season.

so to answer your question, match payments for players that play in finals don't appear to be included in the TPP.
 

Isaac Cumming No 1

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#20
There is no faxing, you deal live with the AFL.

I think the AFL is sweeping something GWS did off the books under the AFL sized rug to avoid penalising them and denying them access to finals next year, I don't think it is possible to go over cap by the magnitude some of the claims have suggested through legitimate dealings. AFL are meant to approve all contracts, they would have known GWS would have gone massively over their 2019 TPP had they all been legitimate contracts and they would have/should have denied those contracts.
This really is nonsense. In what fertile imagination should clubs be punished for going over a TPP that hasn't actually been paid? The cap is complex and has many variables.
Clubs that have been punished have concealed payments to dishonestly represent their TPP, which is entirely different.
 

Tas

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#21
This really is nonsense. In what fertile imagination should clubs be punished for going over a TPP that hasn't actually been paid? The cap is complex and has many variables.
Clubs that have been punished have concealed payments to dishonestly represent their TPP, which is entirely different.
The TPP was set at the start of the broadcasting agreement, clubs knew the scope of the CBA around 2016, how many agreements which impacted 2019 were in place prior to this period? A handful at best? The bulk of the contracts were arranged whilst the TPP was known and the impact of the existing contracts was known before subsequent deals were offered.

You can't lodge contracts for more than future TPP without both the AFL and the club knowing, you can't sail way over the mark by more than 2m without the AFL refusing contracts otherwise clubs would cheat and back-end contracts they know they can't honour in the hope of cheating their way to a flag victory before the shit hits the fan and has to dump players it doesn't have the means to pay for.

The AFL wants trades to be at fair market value and doesn't like Scully like firesales as it can allow the uneven distribution of talent and dilutes the effectiveness of the draft. So all of a sudden GWS just inadvertently found they were going to be $2m+ over TPP in 2019 and the AFL miraculously was going to be lenient all of a sudden allowing clubs to dump TPP space with fire sale deals for this year only.

Not sure how much bullshit you expect people to swallow.
 

Isaac Cumming No 1

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#22
The TPP was set at the start of the broadcasting agreement, clubs knew the scope of the CBA around 2016, how many agreements which impacted 2019 were in place prior to this period? A handful at best? The bulk of the contracts were arranged whilst the TPP was known and the impact of the existing contracts was known before subsequent deals were offered.

You can't lodge contracts for more than future TPP without both the AFL and the club knowing, you can't sail way over the mark by more than 2m without the AFL refusing contracts otherwise clubs would cheat and back-end contracts they know they can't honour in the hope of cheating their way to a flag victory before the shit hits the fan and has to dump players it doesn't have the means to pay for.

The AFL wants trades to be at fair market value and doesn't like Scully like firesales as it can allow the uneven distribution of talent and dilutes the effectiveness of the draft. So all of a sudden GWS just inadvertently found they were going to be $2m+ over TPP in 2019 and the AFL miraculously was going to be lenient all of a sudden allowing clubs to dump TPP space with fire sale deals for this year only.

Not sure how much bullshit you expect people to swallow.
Again we haven't actually made any payments under the 2019 TPP.

Until the final list lodgement we don't even know who we'll be paying, let alone how much.

Absolutely there's a surplus kf bullshit.
 
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juss

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#23
I’m trying to find the answer to this question, and was hoping someone could help.

Using GWS as the example, with them clearing cap space by trading out players.

In the event the fax machine was to play up again tonight at 8:30, and they’re not able to trade Shiel/anyone else to create that cap space, which results in trades not going through, they would then be over their salary cap for 2019.

What exactly happens? Are they penalised by the AFL?

I know you can be a percentage over one year and then be under the following to balance it out (I think) but what if the cap is breached because of a non trade?
Could they delist someone to save cap room?
Restructure contracts?

In the event in did happen, because it's GWS I could see it being swept under the carpet. Not that it's the right thing to do however.
 

Isaac Cumming No 1

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#24
http://www.aflplayers.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/2017-2022-CBA.pdf

the link above is for the current CBA for afl players.

from what i can tell, the total player payments is the "salary cap" for each club.

point 10 refers to total player payments, of which it states that the following payments are not taken into account in the total player payments:

- relocation benefits
- bereavement assistance
- payments made to rookies temporarily promoted to primary list
- some forms of marketing contracts
- payments made under an independent agreement
- testimonial payments
- match payments (at player's contract rate for matches played in the afl premiership season) made to players participating in the afl finals series
- cost of air fares
- prize money paid

there's also a minimum base salary and minimum senior match payment (first & second year players, rookie listed players have slightly reduced values). for 2018, the minimum senior match payment was $5000. it would differ per player's individual contract, and i reckon there would be some contracts that would have incentives for playing in finals.

a prize money pool of $1.1mil (ex GST) will also be distributed to the AFL clubs which finish in the top 4 in an AFL season.

so to answer your question, match payments for players that play in finals don't appear to be included in the TPP.
The other interesting point is how complex the TPP actually is. It also points out the absurdity of giving a definitive figure for the TPP without even the list finalised.
 

PieLebo87

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Thread starter #25
Could they delist someone to save cap room?
Restructure contracts?

In the event in did happen, because it's GWS I could see it being swept under the carpet. Not that it's the right thing to do however.
They’d still have to pay out the contract if they delist though, wouldn’t they?
 
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