Uncontracted Sam Draper

Enclosed_Animal

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Any particular reason you’ve got half your post with dark grey text and half with standard? Not sure if it was your intent but it makes half of it invisible in dark mode.

I think the thing for people and why it seems high is that most players would be getting less than average wage in order to account for the few that get well above the average wage. Certainly a rookie player in his second or third year on an AFL list would not normally command that much.

The other side of it is that we don’t know how it’s structured. Could be a signing bonus and back ended with triggers or KPIs or something too.

Honestly I think it’s just a manager trying to get a few more dollars for his client, I doubt he’s going anywhere. But I guess that’s fair on his behalf too.
Didn't realise about the text color. Edited to fix the above (my bad).

I completely agree that players wouldn't normally command that much prior to debut (although a hell of lot of early picks are now getting extended prior to playing to prevent scenarios like this).

However, every team has to pay 'overs' to incentivise a player to move. Teams will almost always retain talent on less money than they can get on the open market. So yes, the offer is higher than expected. But for us it is hardly irresponsible money (considering we have been frontloading contracts for years just to hit the minimum, and can pay 105% of the cap for next few years). I am sure any contract like that would also have numerous triggers safeguarding it. $1.7 would be the top end sure, but the floor could be as low as half that if he never plays. But hey, sensible news like that doesn't get headlines!

Like you I doubt he moves (assuming you have the space to contract him on something close to average AFL wage). But by putting this figure together we have tried to make sure that if he does move, we are his clear alternative destination. If he is as good as reported, this would be us trying to head off any other potential interest by offering our biggest asset (salary cap space) straight out of the gate. Better than waiting until October to ask the question.

From our point of view we are likely just shaking multiple trees and seeing what falls out. Its what we bought in Gubby Allen to do. We are probably doing exactly the same thing with B.King, J. Caldwell and other young non-established talent behind the scenes. Only difference here is someone went public about it
 
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rusman

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Finally people from both sides acknowledging that the $$ are not actually that big. I just think most people read $1.7m and get spun out. Because for any of us plebs that is a massive amount of money.

But as you both point out, that figure (spread over 4 years) is pretty much the average AFL wage. So all we are suggesting is paying an untried player with untapped potential an average wage for 4 years. Considering we have salary cap to burn, and no fit back up ruckman (if Marshall gets injured our current ruckman is Sam Rowe FFS), it seems low risk, high reward.

If it eventually comes to a trade (who knows if it will), Essendon will probably just do their usual and stamp their feet for two weeks. Then on the last day Dodoro will either get overruled internally (like the Shiel deal) or fold (see the Crameri or Carlisle deal) and it will get done.

Made very similar comments during the Ryder negotiation actually. When he wanted out, Essendon demanded Ollie Wines or Chad Wingard (clearly unrealistic, but it seems to be a tactic the Bombers use). Eventually they got a late first (17) and a third. Given Draper has about 150 less games on the board, I doubt this deal (if it happens) gets anywhere close to that return.

Nathan Freeman was a former top 10 pick we took similar risk on a couple of years ago. He cost us a future 2nd. Given Draper is a rookie pick I doubt we pay that much. But that might roughly be the best we offer...
I know this is just a little jab at the great man for lols. A deal would get done for a 2nd.

But for accuracy sake the holdout was to get a first rounder for JC which was “off the table”. Saints actually caved on carslile. Even tho saints won that deal hands down (carslile and Gresham is a hall).

I think any list manager would be right to stand firm on wanting a first for JC.

I can’t remember Crameri deal but the Shiel deal we caved.

Other more recent trades smith, stringer, saad no caving there.
 

HirdsTheWord

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Sorry mate but that is b.s.. bartel Lewis and co took way under market value to try and win a flag. And at 450k that's light on when billings is on almost double that
If billing’s is on close to 900k than st kilda are more potato then I though....
 

Enclosed_Animal

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I know this is just a little jab at the great man for lols. A deal would get done for a 2nd.

But for accuracy sake the holdout was to get a first rounder for JC which was “off the table”. Saints actually caved on carslile. Even tho saints won that deal hands down (carslile and Gresham is a hall).

I think any list manager would be right to stand firm on wanting a first for JC.

I can’t remember Crameri deal but the Shiel deal we caved.

Other more recent trades smith, stringer, saad no caving there.
Regarding Draper, IMO it would actually be quite a simple trade (if it actually came to that). Something like a future second is a pretty obvious middle ground. Honestly, not sure there is a need for all the posturing. Pretty sure if your club rates him (which they sound like they do), and they pay him about the AFL average (as we are proposing to) then he will likely stay. But if he gets lowballed , I guess he now knows he has a clear option to walk. Up to him really

Regarding Carlisle, I don’t want to derail the thread with ancient history. What I meant from the above is that Dodoro was very clear from the beginning that he wanted a first rounder (at the time we had pick 5 that became Francis) straight up for Carlisle. He said right from the start (and this is from your own website):

"we think that we’re being fair and reasonable. We’re not interested in third party, fourth party deals"

It was the fact he wanted a first round pick straight up for Carlisle which annoyed the Saints as it was never going to happen. Of course, in the end the trade got done with a third party deal (which is what I meant by folding, even if he refused to admit he did).

“There was no way we were going to budge at all” Dodoro said

Anyway, that is all history now. My point was more that once other people got involved, the deal got done. Same thing will likely happen here too (if it does come to a trade) and we will find something that makes both parties happy. We will just likely have to go through days / weeks of posturing before that happens though!
 
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TheKITC

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The Saints are a weird club.

Pay overs for two-youngish ruckman in Longer and Hickey, the latter of which is traded out for essentially nothing a few years later.

Have a promising young ruck on their list already that they have developed in Marshall yet are reportedly trying to tempt a project ruck who hasn't played a game and will have to recover from an ACL to come over on a 4 year deal which no other club would give him.

Why?

In any case, you'd think given how much they seem to want him, a pick in the low 30s would be fair I'd think. That's if he wants to go...
 

Lore

Dec 14, 2015
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Regarding Draper, IMO it would actually be quite a simple trade (if it actually came to that). Something like a future second is a pretty obvious middle ground. Honestly, not sure there is a need for all the posturing. Pretty sure if your club rates him (which they sound like they do), and they pay him about the AFL average (as we are proposing to) then he will likely stay. But if he gets lowballed , I guess he now knows he has a clear option to walk. Up to him really

Regarding Carlisle, I don’t want to derail the thread with ancient history. What I meant from the above is that Dodoro was very clear from the beginning that he wanted a first rounder (at the time we had pick 5 that became Francis) straight up for Carlisle. He said right from the start (and this is from your own website):

"we think that we’re being fair and reasonable. We’re not interested in third party, fourth party deals"

http://www.essendonfc.com.au/news/2015-10-09/dodoro-on-carlisle-trade

It was the fact he wanted a first round pick straight up for Carlisle which annoyed the Saints as it was never going to happen.
Of course, in the end the trade got done with a third party deal (which is what I meant by folding, even if he refused to admit he did).

“There was no way we were going to budge at all” Dodoro said

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-10-21/carlisle-becomes-a-saint-dons-get-another-top-pick-

Anyway, that is all history now. My point was more that once other people got involved, the deal got done. Same thing will likely happen here too (if it does come to a trade) and we will find something that makes both parties happy. We will just likely have to go through days / weeks of posturing before that happens though!
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Foxx

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The Saints are a weird club.

Pay overs for two-youngish ruckman in Longer and Hickey, the latter of which is traded out for essentially nothing a few years later.

Have a promising young ruck on their list already that they have developed in Marshall yet are reportedly trying to tempt a project ruck who hasn't played a game and will have to recover from an ACL to come over on a 4 year deal which no other club would give him.

Why?

In any case, you'd think given how much they seem to want him, a pick in the low 30s would be fair I'd think. That's if he wants to go...
Why? Because they believe as much as Essendon does, that if his body is right he has the potential to be the best ruck in the AFL within 5 years.
St Kilda trying to snag him when his chips are down. On face value he's worth a second rounder, but a ruck with his potential is worth a first.
I'd be shattered if we lost our number 1 ruck for the next 10+ years for a first round pick.
 

Burtman

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With bellchambers nearly finished surely the bombers just match or get close to what st Kilda are offering. A lot of bombers think he’s gonna be a star so why not offer him a bigger deal? If he’s a gun like u say then 500k over 4/5 years is a bargain
 

aussierulesrules

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Hun saying today that we've offered him $1.4mil over 4 years, with incentives that could get him up to $1.8mil. And that Essendon's offer is currently nowhere near it.

Smart business if we've identified him as someone we really rate and who fits a significant need.

Does he play forward at all?

Re Marshall, he can play anywhere, so we're flexible as far as he's concerned.

Last year he played mainly forward/ruck and was very solid in that role, and really showed something inside 50 in one of those games in particular (kicked 2.2 and took 4 contested marks) and he also played CHB against West Coast over in Perth, and had 22 disposals.
 

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Lore

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Hun saying today that we've offered him $1.4mil over 4 years, with incentives that could get him up to $1.8mil. And that Essendon's offer is currently nowhere near it.

Smart business if we've identified him as someone we really rate and who fits a significant need.

Does he play forward at all?

Re Marshall, he can play anywhere, so we're flexible as far as he's concerned.

Last year he played mainly forward/ruck and was very solid in that role, and really showed something inside 50 in one of those games in particular (kicked 2.2 and took 4 contested marks) and he also played CHB against West Coast over in Perth, and had 22 disposals.
Have you read the OP? Herald Sun republishing the same article by the sound of it.
 

aussierulesrules

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Have you read the OP? Herald Sun republishing the same article by the sound of it.
I have read the OP, but that just said we were "set to offer him $1.7mil over 4 years", whereas today's article gives more detail, suggesting it's $1.4mil plus incentives, and adding that Essendon's offer is "nowhere near that" and that they'll need to up theirs if they are to be "any chance of keeping him".
 
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Lore

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I have read the OP, but that just said we were "set to offer him $1.7mil over 4 years", whereas today's article gives more detail, suggesting it's $1.4mil plus incentives, and adding that Essendon's offer is "nowhere near that".
So it's been revised down to ~350k per year. So actually less than the average wage now, but with potential to earn a little more if he actually gets games and hits KPIs. Is there a link to this article?
 

aussierulesrules

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So it's been revised down to ~350k per year. So actually less than the average wage now, but with potential to earn a little more if he actually gets games and hits KPIs. Is there a link to this article?
Not sure there would be a link, as it's just a little 3 paragraph article in the "Money ball" section by Jon Ralph and Jay Clark.
 

aussierulesrules

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iirc Jenkins left for opportunity, but I'm watching the game atm can't check. Draper won't have that particular issue, he's #2 ruck to a 30yo who is injury prone and currently injured. He'd be playing today if he was fit.
Here's an article from that time. So Adelaide from memory targeted him, despite the fact he likewise hadn't played a game, and they traded pick 31 for Josh and pick 41.

 

Lore

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Here's an article from that time. So Adelaide from memory targeted him, despite the fact he likewise hadn't played a game, and they traded pick 31 for Josh and pick 41.

“Josh will leave the Club with our best wishes as he endeavours to explore senior level opportunities with Adelaide,” Hamilton said.

So as I thought. He's the same age as Paddy Ryder and Tom Bellchambers so it's unsurprising he sought other opportunities. He was a rookie, reliant on injuries to get upgraded and get a game, and had two entrenched ruckmen aged 22 and 23 at the time who were senior-listed and ahead of him in the pecking order.

Draper's situation is a little different, if he left it wouldn't be for lack of opportunities.
 

aussierulesrules

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“Josh will leave the Club with our best wishes as he endeavours to explore senior level opportunities with Adelaide,” Hamilton said.

So as I thought. He's the same age as Paddy Ryder and Tom Bellchambers so it's unsurprising he sought other opportunities. He was a rookie, reliant on injuries to get upgraded and get a game, and had two entrenched ruckmen aged 22 and 23 at the time who were senior-listed and ahead of him in the pecking order.

Draper's situation is a little different, if he left it wouldn't be for lack of opportunities.
Yeah I get that, I guess I was talking more from the perspective of the clubs that were/are targeting them, and that they both hadn't played a game.

Because it looks like Sam might actually have more opportunity to play first ruck at Essendon than to be first ruck at St Kilda, we'd obviously have to make it very enticing financially for him to even consider us.
 

TheKITC

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Why? Because they believe as much as Essendon does, that if his body is right he has the potential to be the best ruck in the AFL within 5 years.
St Kilda trying to snag him when his chips are down. On face value he's worth a second rounder, but a ruck with his potential is worth a first.
I'd be shattered if we lost our number 1 ruck for the next 10+ years for a first round pick.
Jesus, calm down before you need a change of underwear.

Again, Draper is a project ruck who hasn't played an AFL game and will have to recover from an ACL. He looks a good young ruckman who was coming on well at VFL level, but do not put that amount of ridiculous mayo on it. Absolute tripe.

Essendon will get nowhere near a first round pick, if he leaves at all, for the exact reasons I've stated above.
 
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