OnceKicked50
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David Parkin said it best when he had him second to only Matthews... For what it's worth Parkin included Dunstall, Hudson and Hodge in his HFC top 5.
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Sam Mitchell vs Adam Goodes
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David Parkin said it best when he had him second to only Matthews... For what it's worth Parkin included Dunstall, Hudson and Hodge in his HFC top 5.
cryptor
Brownlow Medallist
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If you were picking for them to play one game or one season at their best then you'd probably have to go Goodes because at his best he had it all. Physical attributes, versatility and big game influence.
If you were picking them to play for you from draft to retirement then I don't see how you could go past Mitchell. And that probably goes for comparisons against most other players. He hit elite level early and has held it at that level for the vast majority of his career and with no sign yet of slowing.
Of course, "who's better?" isn't the question here but I think your level of contribution throughout your career is an important factor in deciding who has had the better career.
So who has had a better career? Without looking it up I'm fairly certain Goodes would have a lot more personal accolades to his name even if you did cut Mitchell some slack for being criminally unrecognized for most of his career. If you take into account team success then Mitchell obviously looks very good based on even just the last few years - of which he was a key part of.
I'm biased but it's Mitchell for me. Rising star through to Brownlow medalist, premiership captain, 4x premiership player and has performed incredibly consistently his whole career.
Goodes won't be losing any sleep over his career though. Fantastic player.
If you were picking them to play for you from draft to retirement then I don't see how you could go past Mitchell. And that probably goes for comparisons against most other players. He hit elite level early and has held it at that level for the vast majority of his career and with no sign yet of slowing.
Of course, "who's better?" isn't the question here but I think your level of contribution throughout your career is an important factor in deciding who has had the better career.
So who has had a better career? Without looking it up I'm fairly certain Goodes would have a lot more personal accolades to his name even if you did cut Mitchell some slack for being criminally unrecognized for most of his career. If you take into account team success then Mitchell obviously looks very good based on even just the last few years - of which he was a key part of.
I'm biased but it's Mitchell for me. Rising star through to Brownlow medalist, premiership captain, 4x premiership player and has performed incredibly consistently his whole career.
Goodes won't be losing any sleep over his career though. Fantastic player.
Summed up perfectly I think.
You can argue Goodes at his very best (circa 2006) is a shade better but Mitchell has been at or very near his best for a much larger proportion of his career (which has much more long term value).
Put numerically, let's say Goodes at his very best has an output of 100. Mitchell at his best has an output of 97. The thing is Goodes produced that 100 level for say 4 -5 out of every 20 games, 75-80 for another 10 games and somewhere around 60 for the other 5-6 games.
Mitchell, on the other hand, has and continues to produce games in the same 90-97 region for 19 out of every 20 games over his career.
This is evidenced with Mitchell comfortably leading Goodes in:
- Brownlow votes
- Coaches votes
- Media votes/BOG's
- Norm Smith votes (extra 2 grannies though)
- Best and fairests (wins and placings)
- Premierships as well (obviously a team award)
- Mitchell is still playing AA calibre football and can still pick up another 1 or 2.
- Mitchell has been desperately unlucky - 2012 the most noteworthy.
- Mitchell plays a role that is harder to gain selection
- Mitchell has been in the AA squad 7 or 8 times, Goodes just the 4.
Edit: Stats are not everything but just looking into the above - Goodes has played 28 finals. He had more than 20 disposals in just 7 of them (never once 30). Whilst that is not his only role, he also never managed to kick more than 3 goals, which he did once in 28 finals.
Mitchell has played 24 finals and had 29+ disposals in 17 of them, being BOG (or very close to) in all of them.
Try these:
2011 vs Essendon - 28 disposals and 3 goals at Etihad. Nearly single handedly carried his team over the line only to just miss with a shot at goal after the siren. Dominated.
2012 Grand Final - Played with a PCL injury for over a half of footy. Kicked a crucial goal late in the final quarter playing as a permanent forward.
2003 Qualifying Final vs Port Adelaide - Thrown is as the Swans no.1 ruckman to cover Jason Ball, he smashed the Port midfield from the outset, stunning the raging hot favourite and pulling the injury plagued Swans to a very unlikley victory.
2008 vs Fremantle - Kicked 8 goals after "dabbling" as a make shift forward for the day.
If you're older than 15, you'd also know that Goodes routinely played absolute blinders against the Hawks through 2005-2010. There was no one who could go with him.
People have such short memories... whilst at his peak, Goodes was regularly talked about in the company of Judd, Buckley and Hird. He had that X-factor few had, including Mitchell and an ability to turn the whole course of a game in just a few minutes.
The 03 QF was a particularly impressive performance.
His efforts in the last quarter of the 06 Grand Final shouldn't be overlooked either. Put the team on his back and just missed at the finish line.
His efforts in the last quarter of the 06 Grand Final shouldn't be overlooked either. Put the team on his back and just missed at the finish line.
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Both superstars, pretty hard to choose because they are/were very different players.
Both high calibre players who were very different types of players. Mitchell so consistent in finals. Goodes had some rippers too. That 2012 GF on one leg ... respect! I'm not going to bother trying to split them. As soon as I lean one way, I start internally counter arguing back the other way again. I guess if you put a gun to my head I'd go Mitchell, but crap, there I go again the other way thinking I'd go Goodes. I give up!
40 goals, WOW!
eth-dog
Tier 1 WW Player
Yeah, such an unremarkable feat that on average only 20 players do it a year for the past 5 years!
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I blame the twilight years hurting the man's reputation. The bloke was awesome. He could ALMOST play anywhere (not anywhere like some suggest, can't imagine anybody seriously rating Goodes as a starring defender - this is unlike Hird who literally could play anywhere, including the backline). This isn't to say Mitchell shades the man in this regard, though - you'd cringe having Mitchell anywhere but in the middle (doesn't kick too many goals and mostly acts a plug-in defender off half-back, unlike his contemporary Hodge who really played like a champion off half-back).
cryptor
Brownlow Medallist
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Mitchell is/was super dangerous on the half back line for us. With his elite vision and disposal he was a revelation for us across half back during the last few years.
Before he started spending time there his influence was restricted to whether or not he was winning clearances. If he wasn't doing that he was pretty much a non-factor.
Mitchell setting up play from half back was a genius tactical move (I believe Brett Ratten is credited with it) and I'd have it easily within the top 5 strategic moves for Hawthorn over the threepeat years.
Sixpence
Brownlow Medallist
Some (including non-Hawthorn fans) would argue he's not even the best in his family ...
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Not anymore
Mitchell has always been my favourite player and still is even if he's playing for West Coast.
Mitchell would be 3rd for greatest Hawthorn player of all-time.
Mitchell imo is has had a longer period of dominance therefore being the superior player
The King!
Chosen One
Goodes is more of a matchwinner imo
His consistency is not as a good but he can play in mitchells position and then some
If you want a player to win one game i take goodes every day of the week
His consistency is not as a good but he can play in mitchells position and then some
If you want a player to win one game i take goodes every day of the week
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Mitchell's finals record is phenomenal, & it was he in the heart of the engine-room, that drove Hawthorn to 4 premierships .....Top 3 in most brownlow votes ever....And only 2nd to Barney at Hawthorn with 5 B&F's in a Premiership era.
High-end Consistency personified.
High-end Consistency personified.
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Change that to one of the unluckiest to not win a Norm Smith then with his amount of stellar grand final performances in winning sides excluding 2008.Not anymore
HeHateMe
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Mitchells high output well into his 30's has edged out a few.
Top 3 all time in brownlow votes says it all really.
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Top 3 all time in brownlow votes says it all really.
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Lethality
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Sums it up. 14 disposals and a goal is held up as some sort of landmark performance for the overrated Adam Goodes. This is a player that is supposed to be held up in company such as Franklin and Ablett. The best you can come up with is a 28 disposal 3 goal game, or an 18 disposal 20 hitout game, or a day out at full-forward with 8 goals once. Not worthy of those aforementioned comparisons if these are the best you can come up with. Not even enough to compare to a Sam Mitchell, who seems to pick up 30 disposals every week.
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Influential vs stat gatherer.
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? Is this a WUM
Goodes did his PCL in the 2012 Grand Final and still played a key role in winning the game.
As for Goodes' career disposal average, that is hardly a fair comparison as Goodes started his career in the ruck and spent the last 4 years of his career in the forward line. Mitchell has only ever been a midfielder.
Also take 22 Adam Goodes' vs 22 Sam Mitchell's, both at their peaks, and the Adam Goodes 22 would win and win very easily.
As for Goodes' career disposal average, that is hardly a fair comparison as Goodes started his career in the ruck and spent the last 4 years of his career in the forward line. Mitchell has only ever been a midfielder.
Also take 22 Adam Goodes' vs 22 Sam Mitchell's, both at their peaks, and the Adam Goodes 22 would win and win very easily.
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Mitchell comfortably.
Mitchell has been incredibly consistent over a long period and I really don't think some Hawks fans realise just how hard he will be to replace, he's in the top 5 Hawks I've seen play, that period covers the last 40 years where the competition would be tougher than any other club. He was just so good in and around the packs, in his 15 season so far has polled 8 or more votes on 13 occasions, compare that to Goodes did it 7 times (as side comparison Simon Black & Chris Judd did it 10 times, Ablett jnr 8).
I look at as could Hawthorn of had the run they have over the last 5 years without Mitchell, no. Where as in the two premierships that Goodes won, both years he was quiet according to his stats.
Mitchell has been incredibly consistent over a long period and I really don't think some Hawks fans realise just how hard he will be to replace, he's in the top 5 Hawks I've seen play, that period covers the last 40 years where the competition would be tougher than any other club. He was just so good in and around the packs, in his 15 season so far has polled 8 or more votes on 13 occasions, compare that to Goodes did it 7 times (as side comparison Simon Black & Chris Judd did it 10 times, Ablett jnr 8).
I look at as could Hawthorn of had the run they have over the last 5 years without Mitchell, no. Where as in the two premierships that Goodes won, both years he was quiet according to his stats.
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Dipper got a punctured lung and broken ribs and still kept playing in a grand final.
Coming out with one thing from one game doesn't make him better than Mitchell.
