Coach Sam Mitchell's direction for the club and 2024 news

[Strapping Young Lad]

If anyone wants to have a listen about what the data is saying in regards to whether we have actually gotten worse this year have a listen to this from the 9:15 mark.

I know a few people have already touched on it, but the data is also showing that our results this year have been slightly better despite actually putting out a younger team and dealing with some injuries.

 

[rei154]

Richard Vandenberg speaks

for those who want to know:
Basically reiterates that we're keen to improve this years draft hand- potentially trading out future picks, current picks, salaray cap movement and established players.

bolding future picks because I genuinely think our first rounder from next year is going to be moved on.

 

[Pinoy Hawk]

"The club’s ample cap room could open up the possibility of paying some of the salary of a departing player to maximise the draft pick the Hawks received in exchange for that star."

 

[Chief Ten Beers]

Hey remember when that new guy came in from Port Adelaide and sacked a whole lot of players because they couldn't kick? He was only on a two year contract also. I thought that it was a pretty ballsy move from that guy. Now what was his name again?

Nafan Noflags Buckley

 

[Hawker55]

Low-key love how they have a photo of him at Glenferrie rather than Waverly.

He lives out that way. I ran into him at the IGA on the corner of Riversdale and Glenferrie Roads the (early) morning after the Port Adelaide prelim.

 

[H00t]

for those who want to know:
Basically reiterates that we're keen to improve this years draft hand- potentially trading out future picks, current picks, salaray cap movement and established players.

bolding future picks because I genuinely think our first rounder from next year is going to be moved on.

I hope not, only value to moving a first rounder forward is when you are in a win now mode.

It’s all up in the air how long it will take the players getting Sam’s gameplan going. Plus given how even this draft is, our first much more likely to be more valuable than what we can get. Especially given 2022 should be the year the u/18’s get a full run at it.

I hope Sam has more patience than hedging a potential top 5 pick just to get it sooner this year.

 

[Stratton24]

"The club’s ample cap room could open up the possibility of paying some of the salary of a departing player to maximise the draft pick the Hawks received in exchange for that star."

That Jon Ralph speaking not Vanders.

 

[Stratton24]

Nafan Noflags Buckley

He had one as assistant - does that count?

 

[MasterSamurai]

This year there are plethora of inside/outside mids to choose from, an area we need to concentrate on, get a couple of youngsters to ply their trade together so it's more a medium consistent rise instead of either topping up or waiting for draftees to improve in a longer rebuild, so, it makes sense that Sammy and Macca would be looking to trade away future picks plus a couple of senior players to improve our top end Draft hand this year. 2 firsts and 2 early seconds is a great way to start.there are at least 8-9 players I keep wanting from the projected first rounders so I hope the club pull the trigger.

 

[perrdan86]

That Jon Ralph speaking not Vanders.

Id much rather help another club by taking a highly paid player off their books and get a good pick from them for doing so.... ala rumoured kangas/GC deal.

Rather than trading out a good player, getting an average 1st rounder and paying some of their salary

 

[CaptainWorpedo]

This year there are plethora of inside/outside mids to choose from, an area we need to concentrate on, get a couple of youngsters to ply their trade together so it's more a medium consistent rise instead of either topping up or waiting for draftees to improve in a longer rebuild, so, it makes sense that Sammy and Macca would be looking to trade away future picks plus a couple of senior players to improve our top end Draft hand this year. 2 firsts and 2 early seconds is a great way to start.there are at least 8-9 players I keep wanting from the projected first rounders so I hope the club pull the trigger.

Untouchables: Worpel, Day, Scrimshaw, Koschitze, Jiath, Barrass, Brockman, Newcombe, Reeves.

No more than two quality senior players trade out, plus fringe players.

I am keen to see what Maginness, Jeka, Downie, Callow and Mitchell can do in 2022.

 

[daniel23]

Just a throwback to the start of his Box Hill coaching journey.

I think we will see Simon says used in training sessions now hickmott is on board, he used it a fair bit at the eagles.

 

[TheFourPillars]

Can we finally put to bed the idea that Box Hill played the same game plan and style as Hawthorn?

"The Box Hill Hawks under Mitchell this year played a more offensive and attacking game than Hawthorn, but Mitchell was reluctant to say he would play that more offensive style with the Hawks next year.

“I think Hawthorn over the last five years has had quite a defensive DNA and I certainly don’t want to lose some of the excellent defensive concepts Hawthorn have, but by the same token being able to score has been a trouble for us, so certainly I would like to be a team that can trouble oppositions with scoring,” Mitchell said."

All the crap I had to read from posters suggesting we didn't understand game plans.
All the know it alls saying it was simply the fact the standard of opposition allowed Box Hill Hawks to execute better....and NOT the fact they actually tried to move the ball differently, with different emphasis, and different objectives.

I relent mate i was one of them. I was wrong. I must admit that all i saw was that mitchell kept the same numbers at stoppages. Hawthorn preferred the extra behind ths ball. There was more to it. However i still argue that the game plan of attack without being able to defend will fail at AFL level. It is the reason we need those defensive mechanisms as Mitchell has said. We have had real issues transitioning the ball. It is the number one thing we need to fix

 

[rei154]

I hope not, only value to moving a first rounder forward is when you are in a win now mode.

It’s all up in the air how long it will take the players getting Sam’s gameplan going. Plus given how even this draft is, our first much more likely to be more valuable than what we can get. Especially given 2022 should be the year the u/18’s get a full run at it.

I hope Sam has more patience than hedging a potential top 5 pick just to get it sooner this year.

Tbh I think next years first round is one that we can afford to trade out of, especially if it means we can get another kid who may have had more development put into them. Missing all the u16 and u17 years means they're going to be even more of a wildcard team than this season.
I also am pretty confident we'll be performing at quite a bit higher next year- if we can net another top 5 pick this year I'm all for it.

 

[chopflop]

I think we will see Simon says used in training sessions now hickmott is on board, he used it a fair bit at the eagles.

I just re-watched the other vid where Sam is mic'd up for game day. The most impressive thing for me is that he asks 3 or 4 different people about a particular match up I.e., who do we think is the best match up for McGovern. He seeks out like 3 different opinions and says to go with the one (I think the backline coach decided).

In the same video, he was constantly posing questions to himself and the coaches in the box. It's pretty clear he is trying to problem solve and think reflectively on the go, but he involves the opinions of others. The collective mind is stronger than the brilliance of an individual and this level of collaboration and respect for the value of his assistants has me convinced he will be successful. The opposite of Voss at Bris by all reports.

 

[sven_inc]

Tbh I think next years first round is one that we can afford to trade out of, especially if it means we can get another kid who may have had more development put into them. Missing all the u16 and u17 years means they're going to be even more of a wildcard team than this season.
I also am pretty confident we'll be performing at quite a bit higher next year- if we can net another top 5 pick this year I'm all for it.

I agree. Trading out next years first isn't an issue if it nets us a high pick this year. If the club thinks we've got good scope to outperform this seasons position it would be a strong strategy to speed up the talent injection at the club. If needed, you could always try and trade the following years pick (2023) into 2022 I desperate. Another top 6-7 pick this year would be a huge boost.

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[Pinoy Hawk]

That Jon Ralph speaking not Vanders.

Ooops, yeah. Double Quotes shouldn't be there.

 

[Easy Slips Catch]

If we are considering trading out next year's first, Tom is going nowhere.

 

[KermitJagger]

I agree. Trading out next years first isn't an issue if it nets us a high pick this year. If the club thinks we've got good scope to outperform this seasons position it would be a strong strategy to speed up the talent injection at the club. If needed, you could always try and trade the following years pick (2023) into 2022 I desperate. Another top 6-7 pick this year would be a huge boost.

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Plus it does always seem to be a good idea to get these players in bunches. So, multiple firsts over a 2 - 3 year period.

You look at Melbourne now and the core of that team was brought in between 2013 - 2015. Some older, some younger, but Oliver, Petracca, Brayshaw and Salem all through that period with others like Lever brought in from other clubs but drafted in those years.

 

[Pessimistic]

Plus it does always seem to be a good idea to get these players in bunches. So, multiple firsts over a 2 - 3 year period.

You look at Melbourne now and the core of that team was brought in between 2013 - 2015. Some older, some younger, but Oliver, Petracca, Brayshaw and Salem all through that period with others like Lever brought in from other clubs but drafted in those years.

they are even more productive when the older core is still around. Like it or not our older core is Mitchell omeara wingard etc

 

[theiaofseed]

Lets hope he can bring some of this back into our mix.

 

[flinchfree]

................... However i still argue that the game plan of attack without being able to defend will fail at AFL level. It is the reason we need those defensive mechanisms as Mitchell has said. We have had real issues transitioning the ball. It is the number one thing we need to fix

100% agree.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

100% agree.

Conversely I would say that a game plan that focuses entirely on defense over attack will not work either.

Melbourne scored 93 points, 125 points and 140 points over their final series.

They won those games (especially the GF) by essentially blowing the other teams out of the water (of course they played solid defense as well).

I mean that 5 minute period at the end of the 3rd quarter in the GF they kicked what 5 goals? That wasn't defense, that was an offensive onslaught!

If we play the same dour footy next year like we did in 2021 and look to score 65 to 80 points a game, I am sorry that wont cut it against the big boys no matter how good our defense is.

I am confident Mitchell understands this and I think we see a noticeable difference in our game style next year.

 

[TheFourPillars]

Conversely I would say that a game plan that focuses entirely on defense over attack will not work either.

Melbourne scored 93 points, 125 points and 140 points over their final series.

They won those games (especially the GF) by essentially blowing the other teams out of the water (of course they played solid defense as well).

I mean that 5 minute period at the end of the 3rd quarter in the GF they kicked what 5 goals? That wasn't defense, that was an offensive onslaught!

If we play the same dour footy next year like we did in 2021 and look to score 65 to 80 points a game, I am sorry that wont cut it against the big boys no matter how good our defense is.

I am confident Mitchell understands this and I think we see a noticeable difference in our game style next year.

The difference wasn't in their ability to attack but their ability to defend. Melbourne were able to defend well enough to stop the bulldogs when they were dominant in the middle of the ground. The same can't be said about the bulldogs

 

[Todman]

recruit more left footers

 

[Simon Crawshay]

The difference wasn't in their ability to attack but their ability to defend. Melbourne were able to defend well enough to stop the bulldogs when they were dominant in the middle of the ground. The same can't be said about the bulldogs

But the fact remains the Dees averaged 120 odd points across the final series.

The Hawks in 2021 averaged what, less than 80?

Thats a huge difference.

If we can't score 100 points or more on a regular basis we are still so far off the pace.

The side needs a rebalance between defense and attack. We need to be aiming for 100+ points a game.