Coach Sam Mitchell's direction for the club

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Vanstead

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No one under the age of 25 should be made captain.
Agree...look what happened at Melbourne. It screwed up the club and the players involved.

I would hope the 5 year plan - if it exists - is a gradual re-shaping of the list that preserves a good blend of youth & experience throughout as we work out who/what works and what doesn't - and who is/becomes available.

e.g. If Sicily is offered and accepts a 5-year deal or informs the club he'll be exercising FA - has a big flow-on impact to our list profile & strategy and cap $$ available to chase.

You simply can't pension off everyone over 27 because you think you won't contend immediately. There is zero evidence that works and plenty that it doesn't. What we want to emerge is a balanced, talented, skilful, tough and above all resilient list who will contend regularly.

On the coaching front I wonder what plans they have for Burgoyne? ...obviously loves the club and is already a huge mentor and greatly respected. I'd love to see a path mapped out for him in whatever role he wants to pursue - especially if it's a non-coaching one.
 

Davo-27

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Agree...look what happened at Melbourne. It screwed up the club and the players involved.

I would hope the 5 year plan - if it exists - is a gradual re-shaping of the list that preserves a good blend of youth & experience throughout as we work out who/what works and what doesn't - and who is/becomes available.

e.g. If Sicily is offered and accepts a 5-year deal or informs the club he'll be exercising FA - has a big flow-on impact to our list profile & strategy and cap $$ available to chase.

You simply can't pension off everyone over 27 because you think you won't contend immediately. There is zero evidence that works and plenty that it doesn't. What we want to emerge is a balanced, talented, skilful, tough and above all resilient list who will contend regularly.

On the coaching front I wonder what plans they have for Burgoyne? ...obviously loves the club and is already a huge mentor and greatly respected. I'd love to see a path mapped out for him in whatever role he wants to pursue - especially if it's a non-coaching one.
exactly we need at least half a dozen or more veterans who carry out the coaches demands on field to lead, its just lately we have been carrying too many veterans who have not been playing to the level we require of them.
 
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HairyO

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Things we know.
  • Clarko wanted to top up and trade in Talent and keep the playing list together.
  • Sam wanted to hit the draft.
  • The board was sick of Clarko’s direction and wanted a change.
  • Clarko got replaced.
  • Sam openly said there was there was going to be huge changes at the end of the year.
Reading Between the lines.

We are going backwards before we go forward. Sam has board approval to do a full rebuild. They have no intension on competing next year, or holding onto 27+ year old guys.

O’Meara, TOM, Wingard, Breust and Gunston. Will get a tap on the shoulder and politely asked to move on for the long-term betterment of the club.

Sicily will play next year an exit as a free agent. We could walk into this years draft with 5 first round picks and 7 picks inside 25...
Where has it been said anywhere that we were going to top up and trade in this year? We have pick 2 and everything I have read was that we were going to use it.

For the last 2 years we used our 1st round pick, including our first top 10 pick in 14 years.

Is this revisionist or youre just confused?

So the board have dumped our best coach ever and gone for a green coach who is going to have a bunch of kids with no committed, experienced players?

Because that worked so well for GCS and GWS.
 

Accipiter

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I think it’s exactly what we need. If we don’t do it. Next year we will have missed the boat completely with Breust and Gunston.

And we’ll still finish bottom 4 anyway. It won’t be as bad as it sounds. We’ll bring in a heap of young high-end talent that will rejuvenate the team and the supporter base.
The Challenge for us is that we are going through a Covid compromised period where the kids haven't been able to follow the traditional progression pathways. We can't make as 'informed' assessments of these kids as we have in the past? ... Horrible luck to bottom out at such a difficult time, but have to back the club to make the right choices. I'd like to see us take one or two speculative kids at the 'loose-change' end of the draft, as I suspect there could be some gems there that haven't had the opportunity to show their wares.
 
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ahhhhhh

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Agree...look what happened at Melbourne. It screwed up the club and the players involved.

I would hope the 5 year plan - if it exists - is a gradual re-shaping of the list that preserves a good blend of youth & experience throughout as we work out who/what works and what doesn't - and who is/becomes available.

e.g. If Sicily is offered and accepts a 5-year deal or informs the club he'll be exercising FA - has a big flow-on impact to our list profile & strategy and cap $$ available to chase.

You simply can't pension off everyone over 27 because you think you won't contend immediately. There is zero evidence that works and plenty that it doesn't. What we want to emerge is a balanced, talented, skilful, tough and above all resilient list who will contend regularly.

On the coaching front I wonder what plans they have for Burgoyne? ...obviously loves the club and is already a huge mentor and greatly respected. I'd love to see a path mapped out for him in whatever role he wants to pursue - especially if it's a non-coaching one.
Anyone who thinks a 21-22 year old is capable of leading 40+ men ranging from ages 18-35ish are not in touch with any form of reality....
 

BurnaHawks

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Where has it been said anywhere that we were going to top up and trade in this year? We have pick 2 and everything I have read was that we were going to use it.

For the last 2 years we used our 1st round pick, including our first top 10 pick in 14 years.

Is this revisionist or youre just confused?

So the board have dumped our best coach ever and gone for a green coach who is going to have a bunch of kids with no committed, experienced players?

Because that worked so well for GCS and GWS.
Sorry mate, it was reported on the coach. Two weeks ago. Clarko & Mitchell (And the Club) Two separate directions. The club chose Mitchell’s direction and strategy.

It was reported Clarko would continue his strategy to topping up same as the past few years. Using the first-round pick and bring average blokes like last year.

2021 - Kyle Hartigan - Tom Phillips

2020 - Sam Frost - Jonathon Patton

Using one first round pick for 2 years isn’t rebuilding.
 

HairyO

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Sorry mate, it was reported on the coach. Two weeks ago. Clarko & Mitchell (And the Club) Two separate directions. The club chose Mitchell’s direction and strategy.

It was reported Clarko would continue his strategy to topping up same as the past few years. Using the first-round pick and bring average blokes like last year.

2021 - Kyle Hartigan - Tom Phillips

2020 - Sam Frost - Jonathon Patton

Using one first round pick for 2 years isn’t rebuilding.
Using 3rd and 4th round picks or taking DFA players for free and paying them modest amounts while still using all the good draft picks in the draft is a bad idea?

We have to spend 95% of our cap each year. If we dont have experienced players are we paying our kids $500k a year. Do we put Day on $800k a year now?

Was that Sam's plan?
 

BurnaHawks

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Using 3rd and 4th round picks or taking DFA players for free and paying them modest amounts while still using all the good draft picks in the draft is a bad idea?

We have to spend 95% of our cap each year. If we dont have experienced players are we paying our kids $500k a year. Do we put Day on $800k a year now?

Was that Sam's plan?
I'm just telling you what was reported.

We could use our cap space to buy picks.

An example. (Just an example)

Brisbane have limited salary cap space, but they would LOVE Breust. We pay a large part of his wages for two years and get a first round pick back.
 

HairyO

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I'm just telling you what was reported.

We could use our cap space to buy picks.

An example. (Just an example)

Brisbane have limited salary cap space, but they would LOVE Breust. We pay a large part of his wages for two years and get a first round pick back.
Which is fine in theory. But when have any of our top players wanted to be traded out? Breust has been trade bait apparently for the last 6 years. Never once been interested in going.

The only way I see our players leaving is if we pay them a huge amount to go which would be moronic. Or if Clarko does coach somewhere else next year and he takes some of them with him.
 

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BurnaHawks

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Which is fine in theory. But when have any of our top players wanted to be traded out? Breust has been trade bait apparently for the last 6 years. Never once been interested in going.

The only way I see our players leaving is if we pay them a huge amount to go which would be moronic. Or if Clarko does coach somewhere else next year and he takes some of them with him.
Everyone understands he hasn’t wanted to be traded. That was just an example. This year is different though. I’m just trying to read between the lines. Wholesale changes are coming. Anything can happen.

Clarko leaving and taking them is highly likely.
 
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HairyO

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Every understand get he hasn’t wanted to be traded. That was just an example. This year is different though. I’m just trying to read between the lines. Wholesale changes are coming. Anything can happen.

Clarko leaving and taking them is highly likely.
And we get sold the story that its not a firesale like Collingwood - because we would never be as bad as Collingwood...
 

theiaofseed

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Where has it been said anywhere that we were going to top up and trade in this year? We have pick 2 and everything I have read was that we were going to use it.

For the last 2 years we used our 1st round pick, including our first top 10 pick in 14 years.

Is this revisionist or youre just confused?

So the board have dumped our best coach ever and gone for a green coach who is going to have a bunch of kids with no committed, experienced players?

Because that worked so well for GCS and GWS.
Was this by choice or were no players interested in coming?

Isn't this exactly the same thing Clarkson did? Clarkson gets to stay on forever because he won a few flags regardless of his performance over the last 5 years?

GWS did play in quite a few Preliminary finals and a GF so yea it worked for them.
 
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HairyO

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Was this by choice or were not players interested in coming?

Isn't this exactly the same thing Clarkson did? Clarkson gets to stay on forever because he won a few flags regardless of his performance over the last 5 years?

Well they did play in quite a few Preliminary finals and a GF so yea it worked for them.
He gets to stay on for 2022 as per contract. Mitchell should have stayed at Box Hill for more experience. As per contract.

3 years ago we were 4th, BTW. And weve had early retirements, cancer, a leg snapped in half, numerous year long injuries, numerous long term injuries, and AFL meddling on trades.

And COVID where we had the worst runaround by the AFL than any other team.


Which coaches would have managed all of this better than Clarko?

Mitchell I assume. Because we replaced Clarko for him. Any others ?
 

Accipiter

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This one is where I certainly didn't agree with Clarkson. He had a opportunity to keep it fresh but wanted to do the best by his mate.
For me this behaviour was his downfall. When he started at Hawthorn he punted champion veterans like Mark Graham, yet in the last couple of years he developed commitments to same types ...
 

Carl Spackler

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He gets to stay on for 2022 as per contract. Mitchell should have stayed at Box Hill for more experience. As per contract.

3 years ago we were 4th, BTW. And weve had early retirements, cancer, a leg snapped in half, numerous year long injuries, numerous long term injuries, and AFL meddling on trades.

And COVID where we had the worst runaround by the AFL than any other team.


Which coaches would have managed all of this better than Clarko?

Mitchell I assume. Because we replaced Clarko for him. Any others ?
You're joking, right? This is exactly the agreement they had at the first press conference and before Clarkson's manager put Caro on speed dial.

Anyways, wrong thread.

Strapping Young Lad
 

theiaofseed

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He gets to stay on for 2022 as per contract. Mitchell should have stayed at Box Hill for more experience. As per contract.

3 years ago we were 4th, BTW. And weve had early retirements, cancer, a leg snapped in half, numerous year long injuries, numerous long term injuries, and AFL meddling on trades.

And COVID where we had the worst runaround by the AFL than any other team.


Which coaches would have managed all of this better than Clarko?

Mitchell I assume. Because we replaced Clarko for him. Any others ?
Who knows if Mitchell will be any good, the question isn't if Mitchell will equal Clarkson but whether he can coach better than a 2021 Clarkson.

Negatives and shortfalls only arise to the outer when you can't cover for them, every club has their challenges, Clarkson hasn't been able cover for these recently, some his own making. We're second last and 6 years since our last finals victory and barely started a rebuild, I'm not sure you can describe any of this as managed.

I'm for one looking forward to a new gameplan, some fresh air and new ideas
 

HairyO

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You're joking, right? This is exactly the agreement they had at the first press conference and before Clarkson's manager put Caro on speed dial.

Anyways, wrong thread.

Strapping Young Lad
No. I mean the contract Clarko had for 2022 and the one Mitchell had for 2022.

Not the rushed agreement that didnt last a week before Mitchell decided he wanted more.
 

theiaofseed

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No. I mean the contract Clarko had for 2022 and the one Mitchell had for 2022.

Not the rushed agreement that didnt last a week before Mitchell decided he wanted more.
Who said it was Mitchell? From what we can gather it points towards Clarkson more than Mitchell.
 

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