Player Watch Sam Murray - (Delisted 2019)

Jul 25, 2008
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The Linc
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IT's ridiculous, used to be innocent until proven guilty, but here he is unofficially banned for months until they deign to actually process his case.

GC is right you can’t have athletes involved in competition whilst under this sort of cloud. I would also argue that we would well and truly know by now if there was a remote chance of him being in the clear. This is a pretty clear cut case of either closed door negotiations or a desire to have it kept out of the news (and the media amazingly respecting that). Either way he’s guilty it just remains to be seen what the end punishment will be.
 
Not just that. The total media silence I find surprising. Although Murray is a fringe player I'd have thought there would have been interest in the outcome.
Maybe he got a "media blackout deal" like a certain Hawthorn player turned "southern bird"
 

FrakturedHalo

The Voice of Reason
May 6, 2017
631
715
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AFL Club
Collingwood
Honestly, this is turning into something out of Yes Minister, the whole thing gets shadier and shonkier week by week. Why is he allowed to train and play with his old club? If you’ve been hit with a doping code violation you aren’t even allowed to be the water bottle runner at your nephews under 11’s game in the MSJFL, are they just making up rules as they go along “no you can’t play footy at AFL level, but we’ll allow you to still be involved in your little regional league?”?? And what exactly is there even to be negotiated/circumstances agreed upon and legally wrangled? It’s an in-competition gameday test, either it’s positive or it’s not, since when in the entire history of enforcing the anti-doping code across any sport has it ever been accepted as a mitigating factor “well yes the sample may have tested positive, but because I consumed XxX substance actually 4 days before gameday not up to 48 hours before which is what we all got told was the window that could produce a positive reading, my metabolism is just obviously a bit more sluggish than your average Joe’s, you should take that into consideration and downgrade my sanction from the automatic 4 year penalty the code stipulates?” Or if the b test was negative or inconclusive, then throw the thing out already metabolites aren’t going to just spontaneously grow outta nowhere in a frozen piss sample. The only brand damage that’s being done is by the AFL and ASADA to themselves by acting like a bunch of dithering ducks quacking at each other
 

regpies

Premiership Player
Sep 19, 2011
3,435
5,152
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Collingwood
ASADA should be up for an award for the slowest bureaucracy there is.

Can you imagine how long it must take ASADA to order stationary? It would have to go through 5 mid level managers, then would need to be approved by 3 other managers before final approval via a capex through the head of finance.

Maybe that’s why the Murray case is delayed, they are all sitting around waiting for the stationary order of pens to arrive. Should be another 6-9mths.
 

CFC2010

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Aug 22, 2014
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Maybe he got a "media blackout deal" like a certain Hawthorn player turned "southern bird"

You obviously haven’t seen this selfish child’s Instagram.
 

Somebody

Premiership Player
Apr 12, 2007
3,617
1,046
Somewhere
AFL Club
Collingwood
GC is right you can’t have athletes involved in competition whilst under this sort of cloud. I would also argue that we would well and truly know by now if there was a remote chance of him being in the clear. This is a pretty clear cut case of either closed door negotiations or a desire to have it kept out of the news (and the media amazingly respecting that). Either way he’s guilty it just remains to be seen what the end punishment will be.
As i understand it he was tested positive only for cocaine days away from a game.
Recreational coke use is not for performance enhancement, unless done during the game.
Guilty of using an illegal drug but not of using a drug for performance enhancement.
So it's all bs. IT would be legitimate under the law (not that I necessarily agree with the law) to charge him with cocaine use criminally, but the performance enhancement non-criminal charge is bogus and should be dropped.

IF occasional coke use is a crime, why are doctors and parents allowed to force speed (eg ritalin or adderol) on 10 year olds, because they don't like the way they behave??
 

didaksrightfoot

Premiership Player
Sep 12, 2013
4,902
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Collingwood
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As i understand it he was tested positive only for cocaine days away from a game.
Recreational coke use is not for performance enhancement, unless done during the game.
Guilty of using an illegal drug but not of using a drug for performance enhancement.
So it's all bs. IT would be legitimate under the law (not that I necessarily agree with the law) to charge him with cocaine use criminally, but the performance enhancement non-criminal charge is bogus and should be dropped.

IF occasional coke use is a crime, why are doctors and parents allowed to force speed (eg ritalin or adderol) on 10 year olds, because they don't like the way they behave??

He tested positive on gameday - in that instance Cocaine is performance enhancing.

The story that has come out is that he used 3-4 days beforehand - but i doubt he can prove that.

What his lawyers will argue is that previous understanding was that cocaine is out of your system within 24-48 hours, so midweek use was always considered "safe" (in terms of avoiding ASADA punishment... especially if there is anything to that effext documented in the AFL workshops that players do around substance use issues) and they might try to argue that with the AFL illicit drugs policy, Murray only deserves a "strike".
They could also try to make the case that if the cocaine was detected after 3-4 days, say because of a new test, that should not be considered "performance enhancing" anymore, because it is highly doubtful that it still has a stimulating effect at that stage.

That is probably enough grey area that they could use extenuating circumstances to get Murray a suspension somewhere lower than the max 4years.

It is not enough grey area to get him off the charges. He tested positive to a PED on game day - that part is very cut and dry - he is guilty of that, and will face a lengthy suspension for it.

Other arguments about illicit drugs dont come into it.
 

jackcass

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Oct 8, 2007
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Bendigo
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Anyone else hearing it's a 12 month ban?

Would be a handy boost to the VFL side coming into finals (assuming we're in contention) if that's the case.
 

Darkyprotector

Premiership Player
Apr 10, 2017
4,871
2,379
AFL Club
Collingwood
Likely we’ll switch depending on the opposition, and potentially across games. Ideally we need all players capable of playing all styles in case we switch during games and to minimise changes from game to game.

As seen with Thomas players can come back from lengthy bans, but it will take time and there’s the chance someone might take the spot.

Sydney Swans 2018 game we played keeping s off and even on a postage stamp made them look feable

Horse installed outriders to stop it
Which then opened the corridor

Very much like basketball
Force the opposition to play the way you want and punish their weakness

With the new rules and our 13 midfielders either suits

The possession game ie sydney and last week or the high running thru the corridor quick hands style ( draw and release) hawthorn 2017 second half

Both if executed are winners

However we have 2 key components out and low levels of fitness due to a late start
 

Saintly Viewed

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Aug 10, 2015
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The forgotten man
Only bigfooty keeps the torch burning....

The player profile pictures haven’t even updated his photo, it’s still 2018.








(Ofcourse you could say that about all the player profile photos)
 
I’m hearing drawn and quartered on the G July 1st.
Eddie providing comments.
Exclusive to FoxFooty.
Is he going to toss the coin after being drawn and quartered?
 

Saintly Viewed

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Aug 10, 2015
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So Beamers in the Lions jumper?
That’s a good point.

It might even be a 2012 photo or whenever it was, or when they just do a photo shop.
 

Somebody

Premiership Player
Apr 12, 2007
3,617
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Somewhere
AFL Club
Collingwood
He tested positive on gameday - in that instance Cocaine is performance enhancing.

The story that has come out is that he used 3-4 days beforehand - but i doubt he can prove that.

What his lawyers will argue is that previous understanding was that cocaine is out of your system within 24-48 hours, so midweek use was always considered "safe" (in terms of avoiding ASADA punishment... especially if there is anything to that effext documented in the AFL workshops that players do around substance use issues) and they might try to argue that with the AFL illicit drugs policy, Murray only deserves a "strike".
They could also try to make the case that if the cocaine was detected after 3-4 days, say because of a new test, that should not be considered "performance enhancing" anymore, because it is highly doubtful that it still has a stimulating effect at that stage.

That is probably enough grey area that they could use extenuating circumstances to get Murray a suspension somewhere lower than the max 4years.

It is not enough grey area to get him off the charges. He tested positive to a PED on game day - that part is very cut and dry - he is guilty of that, and will face a lengthy suspension for it.

Other arguments about illicit drugs dont come into it.
OK game day test makes it harder. It doesn't prove he did it on gameday and I doubt he did. Never heard of cocaine being used for physical enhancement although commonly used for mental enhancement of course.
Since these tests are potentially so damaging to people, the tests should be better, ie show the actual level of the drug instead of just "positive" which could be a very low level. taht likley would involve that if someone tested positive, an immediate more accurate test woudl be doen as a follow up to get the actual blood level. From there it would be easy to tell if it was done that day or was just residual from days ago.
 
Jun 10, 2014
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OK game day test makes it harder. It doesn't prove he did it on gameday and I doubt he did. Never heard of cocaine being used for physical enhancement although commonly used for mental enhancement of course.
Since these tests are potentially so damaging to people, the tests should be better, ie show the actual level of the drug instead of just "positive" which could be a very low level. taht likley would involve that if someone tested positive, an immediate more accurate test woudl be doen as a follow up to get the actual blood level. From there it would be easy to tell if it was done that day or was just residual from days ago.

Performance enhancing isn’t the only criteria for including a substance on the banned list. Player safety and the very nebulous “spirit of sport” are also reasons to include a substance. For example cannabis and heroin are also on the in competition list.

Think the tests do come up with thresholds. That would likely be part of the current Murray matter - to argue it was taken earlier in the week, not intended to performance enhance, etc.

There has been speculation that cocaine may in the future have a threshold attached to it. But not yet. Interestingly, old buddy caffeine (Alex Watson!) is no longer on the banned list. But is on the Monitoring Program.

Negotiating between 9-15 months is still my mail. With some red tape garbage muddying the waters. That he has been allowed to train up in Echuca is interesting.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

Somebody

Premiership Player
Apr 12, 2007
3,617
1,046
Somewhere
AFL Club
Collingwood
Performance enhancing isn’t the only criteria for including a substance on the banned list. Player safety and the very nebulous “spirit of sport” are also reasons to include a substance. For example cannabis and heroin are also on the in competition list............


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
I think they are way overstepping their boundaries by including stuff like this. Their job should jsut be to prevent people having an unfair performance advantage with drugs. This additional moralistic/private crime fighting stuff is pretty Orwellian IMO. but noone else thinks so, so whatever. But then I even object to the afl imposing fines, that seems very anti civil rights to me.
 

Thatsmyname

Plausible deniability
Apr 16, 2019
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So the B sample would have come back ages ago and if it had cleared him they wouldn't have kept him out of football this long so he's clearly done for. What's the best sanction he can hope for?
 
Aug 7, 2008
1,328
839
Richmond
AFL Club
Collingwood
I think they are way overstepping their boundaries by including stuff like this. Their job should jsut be to prevent people having an unfair performance advantage with drugs. This additional moralistic/private crime fighting stuff is pretty Orwellian IMO. but noone else thinks so, so whatever. But then I even object to the afl imposing fines, that seems very anti civil rights to me.
While I agree with you, the cynic in me believes that WADA and ASADA and other similar organizations are only there to protect the sports from any liability in the future from health effects from using PEDs or other drugs. “Hey we told them that those things are banned and we tested for them and we signed up to WADA etc etc. so we can’t be sued”
 
So the B sample would have come back ages ago and if it had cleared him they wouldn't have kept him out of football this long so he's clearly done for. What's the best sanction he can hope for?

No idea. I thought it was meant to be a mandatory 4 years, but the fact it is going on for so long suggests to me that it's a very negotiable or debatable result. I'd love to see him in a Pies jumper again one day.
 
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