Analysis Same Structures vs Radical Change?

[WaynesWorld19]

You maybe right but as they say familiarity breeds contempt and I think Pyke is too smart to keep rolling the same plan out year after year. He will tweak it slightly to keep everyone* interested.

*players not fans.

I agree ....i have every confidence there will be changes ....how subtle or dramatic, we'll see

 

[hey shorty]

I think the same basic plan works fine but we need to be more flexible dependant on opponents. I have no issues backing in what we do but we have to realise what we do doesn't beat everyone.

It's also a shame we don't play at the MCG more than last season.

 

[Dc9798]

Grand Final day, we take our chances in the first 15 minutes of the 2/4 and we’re not even having this discussion.
Pre-season 2016/2017, we tweaked our game plan slightly, likewise again this pre-season.
The losses of Lever and Cameron (Keith, Doedee, Hampton, Milera etc) we have cover for. The loss of Smith however is the big one, if we can get his cover right, no reason why we won’t be up there again given we have the extra weapon, Gibbs, in the midfield.


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[1970crow]

Yet i haven't seen him critiqued ? ......you sure Graham wasn't on Mackay? , that would be more acceptable to Crows fans

Marty still thinks all Harry Taylor's goals were kicked against Keath. If Graham kicked 3 whilst resting in a pocket, Marty would still have those against Sloane.

 

[1970crow]

Over the season though, Otten played good football ......he shouldn't be defined by 1-2 games

He was largely carried. As a player that played a bit in defence, you'd think he'd poll better in losses. He finished outside the 22 in the b&f, polling disproportionately in wins.

 

[1970crow]

But this was my point re outside players & small forwards .......history shows that if you're not winning the ball at the coalface, these players struggle

It's not Betts, or Atkins, or Mackay .......too many looking at the stats & not looking at the cause of the problem .......in a scoring chain, it's often initiated by a tackle, a knock on, smart decision, or a contested mark

The thing i like about Lynch is that as a leadup forward ......he makes elite decisions with his disposals ....down the line, 45 degree kick, handball, that sets up scoring chains ......others simply continue to take the poorer / easy options ....this is where Matt Crouch has really gone to another level in decision making

Not convinced Lynch isn't a downhill skier. He's another that goes to water in our losses when he's not getting serviced by our mids. It's not as if he's a deep forward freezing to death down there, he's got plenty of licence to get around and impact. Yet he doesn't when we're struggling. I've posted it in the past, he's either a barometer or a downhill skier, not sure which, but he's certainly a passenger in our losses.

 

[1970crow]

No player should or Sloanes mid season slump would be criticised a great deal more considering what he is paid


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As concerned as I am about Sloane's and the coaches ability to counteract a hard tag, it's worth remembering that he's been ragged about 6 times in his career. Lots of the guns struggled with tags when it first started, it's not terminal yet.

 

[BunjiMac]

Need to fix our weakness, further harness our strengths and come with an element of surprise.

All the should result in a further evolution of our game plan.

The only weakness I've heard the club publicly speak about is the one I think is glaringly obvious, and that is how we become absolute pussies in the face of real pressure. How they fix that I'm not really sure.

I get the feeling Fogarty will play a bigger role than anyone could have anticipated. He will be a francou's pet favourite.

 

[Scorpus]

We need a way to win when things aren't going our way

 

[Jack is Back]

Wisely, the Maestro did not try to totally change our game plan in his first pre-season.

IMHO after the 2016 season he analysed what was and wasn’t working and focussed on the key areas (contested ball, transition from defence to attack). He likes our players to take the game on and make decisions based on what unfolds. Thank god, the days of Mick Malthouse formula footy is well behind us (kick the ball down the boundary line, create a stoppage, rinse and repeat.

At the start of last season the Maestro seemed to give the all clear to Talia, Hartigan and Lever to go for intercept marks . This suited Lever but less so Hartigan and Talia. Towards the end of the season we seemed to pull back a little in this area.

Our contested ball, notably our inside mid work was greatly improved prior to the GF but our outside mids still need to improve.

Good teams restricted our Joe the Gooses but we continued to move the ball quickly from turnovers and created a lot of goals by isolating forwards.

From the limited open training sessions so far in the pre-season we seem to be working on controlled ball movement. If a player is free we play on quickly, similar to 2016 and 2017. If nothing is on offer the players are holding the ball up and waiting for something to open up.

 

[Pugsley]

Will francou help Sloane deal with a tag he was pretty much like Sloane and learnt how to deal with it

I’m hoping francou can do that for Sloane


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He may be called Gibson.

 

[ShadeyP]

We need to stop playing favorites and gifting guys games on overblown reputations .
Be ruthless yet also adventurous in finding different combinations so we build our squad throughout the year .
You need some surprises up your sleeve come September . We are deep this season coming , use it .
Simply put we have been way too predictable for way to long at selection and in gameplan .

 

[John Who]

We need to stop playing favorites and gifting guys games on overblown reputations .
Be ruthless yet also adventurous in finding different combinations so we build our squad throughout the year .
You need some surprises up your sleeve come September . We are deep this season coming , use it .
Simply put we have been way too predictable for way to long at selection and in gameplan .

Yeah we need something surprising in the Finals like the Ellen move in 97. Once we trailed by half-time in the GF, there was no real obvious changes that I could see for the second half.
Players obviously injured like Jenkins and his ribs, club to not pull that kind of stunt again. We wasted a few games on Jenkins for him to play like a bunny (ribs not quite resolved), where those could have been priceless games added on the rookies eg. Gooch, Milera etc.

 

[John Who]

IMO 2018 will be won or lost in the heads of the players. Im pessimistic on that basis. ( i dont care what others think, if Rory hasn't signed by round 1 that will have an impact on the playing group as like us they will understand he is more gone than staying.
Go Crows.

This is the unknown for us going into 2018 season. Team camaraderie/unity is very underrated in sport. I think it can go in one of two ways:
1. Sloane delayed contract talk detracts from team spirit
2. After the Cameron and Lever talks of leaving last year, the club has grown more mature and understand players coming and going are part and parcel of today's footy, and team unity to remain unaffected.

If everybody improves globally, then the Sloane contract will become less of an issue.

 

[mistylake]

I’m hoping they reviewed the flag that could not be.
Asses who serially underperformed when required and trains with an aim to replace the incumbents with gritty determined players for this years assault.
I hope someone has already had a word to a few that there are spots up for grabs “give it everything”.

 

[MRB37]

Not convinced Lynch isn't a downhill skier. He's another that goes to water in our losses when he's not getting serviced by our mids. It's not as if he's a deep forward freezing to death down there, he's got plenty of licence to get around and impact. Yet he doesn't when we're struggling. I've posted it in the past, he's either a barometer or a downhill skier, not sure which, but he's certainly a passenger in our losses.

Good teams put a ton of work into Lynch because we struggle because he struggles. That doesn't make him a downhill skier, but we need to be able to find another avenue like McGovern perhaps moving a bit further up the ground to counter when Lynch gets blanketed.

Anyway, it seems pretty simple to me. You take all the things that worked and look to keep doing them well, you take the areas you failed and look to improve them. Either by doing them better than you did previously (like how we spent last summer working on our contested ball skills), or finding a new way to do them. That doesn't need an entire overhaul of the gameplan, because it does work more often than not, you just need to find some new ways to do some parts of it.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

The one that has escaped criticism from the board is Betts Vlastuin was rated one of their best players and I know most would ask who Vlastuin is

But yeah bag JJ or Otten

But Betts has shown a lot while at Adelaide unfortunately not in the biggest game of his career


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Imo, the vast majority of our players should be looking hard at their performances on grand final day... As it wasn't just a few who performed poorly.

 

[Redleg Crow]

IMO 2018 will be won or lost in the heads of the players. Im pessimistic on that basis. ( i dont care what others think, if Rory hasn't signed by round 1 that will have an impact on the playing group as like us they will understand he is more gone than staying.

Go Crows.

It is a huge danger. It’s amazing how quickly a team can lose faith in each other

 

[GreyCrow]

I agree change is constant and to not change is to go backwards. But I dont agree on completely remodelling.

As noted , work on the things that worked well and work harder on the things that didnt. An interesting viewpoint of all our losses is we didnt lose the games physically but mentally. The North Melbourne Tassie game is the only one where a lack of coaching nous could be attributed to the loss. Selection of Otten at times was interesting but it didnt define our losses , just made highlighting Otten easier.

I think Jack is Back has pointed out a way forward , and ironically its by looking at the past, TEMPO footy comes to mind when I read JIBs post

mistylake has highlighted the fragile nature of some players and the need to be blunt with them. Downhill skiers or not the coaching group need to be ruthless at times in player assessment. The physical as well as the mental

This along with Kane McGoodwin and Redleg Crow highlighting the danger of the GF loss and how it can impact the group are what I would be tweaking.

 

[CrowBloke]

Imo, the vast majority of our players should be looking hard at their performances on grand final day... As it wasn't just a few who performed poorly.

Of the Top 4 teams going into the 2017 finals we were the most disrupted, disunited and unsettled. We were not playing our best footy with a united, settled team at the biz end of the season.
All caused by the Lever/Cameron uncertainties, the Smith ACL, McGovern's injury, Betts' and Sloane's appendix ops and even the foot injury that Tex carried. Probably much more than we'll ever know about.
I have two strongest memories of the GF:
1) Betts one-on-one in the goalsquare with one arm held at length by both of his opponents' hands, no free kick. This was a tactic used by Richmond at some contests, but usually in a pack ie one of their blokes holding one of ours down by the arm to stop him from jumping/contesting. It was more subtle than blocking/ tunnelling/ or even a slight nudge to unbalance, and went largely unpunished. The dismay/confusion on Eddie's face was obvious.
2) cuts by Ch. 7 to the Crows' changerooms at half-time which showed our blokes sitting individually, slumped, not talking in groups, looking like a team does at the end of a lost game. I remember wondering why they weren't talking, planning, gee-ing each other up.

I think our lack of depth was exposed. The blokes who came in to replace injured players varied from useless to serviceable. We'll never know the extent of the disunity caused by the internal squabbling around Lever and Cameron. Richmond played like a settled team with a plan and singular purpose (pressure, pressure, pressure).
3 months later, I'm still in shock.
Much has been said above about Sloane's future plans.
I see nothing wrong with Pyke asking Sloane for a decision asap, so that he can plan ahead. We had the chance to trade Dangerfield to Melbourne for 2 first-round draft picks and should have done so as soon as he refused to say what his future plans were, even as predictable as they were. Dangerfield played hard, even winning the Gold Jacket, but it caused unsettling uncertainty and resentment, no question.
If Sloane plays the "I'll-wait-until-the-end-of-the-season" card, that's a strong indicator. I love Sloaney but we do not need another season of internal disunity and resentment surrounding one of our stars.

 

[John Who]

Of the Top 4 teams going into the 2017 finals we were the most disrupted, disunited and unsettled. We were not playing our best footy with a united, settled team at the biz end of the season.
All caused by the Lever/Cameron uncertainties, the Smith ACL, McGovern's injury, Betts' and Sloane's appendix ops and even the foot injury that Tex carried. Probably much more than we'll ever know about.
I have two strongest memories of the GF:
1) Betts one-on-one in the goalsquare with one arm held at length by both of his opponents' hands, no free kick. This was a tactic used by Richmond at some contests, but usually in a pack ie one of their blokes holding one of ours down by the arm to stop him from jumping/contesting. It was more subtle than blocking/ tunnelling/ or even a slight nudge to unbalance, and went largely unpunished. The dismay/confusion on Eddie's face was obvious.
2) cuts by Ch. 7 to the Crows' changerooms at half-time which showed our blokes sitting individually, slumped, not talking in groups, looking like a team does at the end of a lost game. I remember wondering why they weren't talking, planning, gee-ing each other up.

I think our lack of depth was exposed. The blokes who came in to replace injured players varied from useless to serviceable. We'll never know the extent of the disunity caused by the internal squabbling around Lever and Cameron. Richmond played like a settled team with a plan and singular purpose (pressure, pressure, pressure).
3 months later, I'm still in shock.
Much has been said above about Sloane's future plans.
I see nothing wrong with Pyke asking Sloane for a decision asap, so that he can plan ahead. We had the chance to trade Dangerfield to Melbourne for 2 first-round draft picks and should have done so as soon as he refused to say what his future plans were, even as predictable as they were. Dangerfield played hard, even winning the Gold Jacket, but it caused unsettling uncertainty and resentment, no question.
If Sloane plays the "I'll-wait-until-the-end-of-the-season" card, that's a strong indicator. I love Sloaney but we do not need another season of internal disunity and resentment surrounding one of our stars.

Sloane has the right to wait until during the season to decide his future. We might not like it as fans, but this is the nature of the game. Forcing Sloane to make a decision now is no different to a player forcing the club to make a decision on their contract extension (if it expires end of this year).

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Of the Top 4 teams going into the 2017 finals we were the most disrupted, disunited and unsettled. We were not playing our best footy with a united, settled team at the biz end of the season.
All caused by the Lever/Cameron uncertainties, the Smith ACL, McGovern's injury, Betts' and Sloane's appendix ops and even the foot injury that Tex carried. Probably much more than we'll ever know about.
I have two strongest memories of the GF:
1) Betts one-on-one in the goalsquare with one arm held at length by both of his opponents' hands, no free kick. This was a tactic used by Richmond at some contests, but usually in a pack ie one of their blokes holding one of ours down by the arm to stop him from jumping/contesting. It was more subtle than blocking/ tunnelling/ or even a slight nudge to unbalance, and went largely unpunished. The dismay/confusion on Eddie's face was obvious.
2) cuts by Ch. 7 to the Crows' changerooms at half-time which showed our blokes sitting individually, slumped, not talking in groups, looking like a team does at the end of a lost game. I remember wondering why they weren't talking, planning, gee-ing each other up.

I think our lack of depth was exposed. The blokes who came in to replace injured players varied from useless to serviceable. We'll never know the extent of the disunity caused by the internal squabbling around Lever and Cameron. Richmond played like a settled team with a plan and singular purpose (pressure, pressure, pressure).
3 months later, I'm still in shock.
Much has been said above about Sloane's future plans.
I see nothing wrong with Pyke asking Sloane for a decision asap, so that he can plan ahead. We had the chance to trade Dangerfield to Melbourne for 2 first-round draft picks and should have done so as soon as he refused to say what his future plans were, even as predictable as they were. Dangerfield played hard, even winning the Gold Jacket, but it caused unsettling uncertainty and resentment, no question.
If Sloane plays the "I'll-wait-until-the-end-of-the-season" card, that's a strong indicator. I love Sloaney but we do not need another season of internal disunity and resentment surrounding one of our stars.

We were more unsettled going into the finals in 97 & 98. We lost the likes of Modra & Roo. We were more settled going into 2017 than 1997!

Also, the likes of GWS & Cats also had issues, so it's not like we were the most unsettled.

The key is planning for different scenarios, so that we have contingencies for when things don't go to plan. We should be using more of our depth during the year & trying players in different positions, so that we have the flexibility to cover the loss of any player. Sometimes you actually discover a player who is more suited to another position.

I was disappointed the coaching staff didn't mix it up more at half time... not that I think it would have made any difference, given we had gone in too tall & had 3 early injuries, making us susceptible to being outrun by Richmond.

 

[CrowBloke]

We might not like it as fans

It doesn't matter what we, the fans, like or dislike. The inner circle of the Club does not make decisions on what the fans might like or dislike.
I'm talking about what the players like/dislike. A team that stays together with unity of purpose wins Flags (think: Hawthorn at their peak, where players took paycuts to keep the team together).
The will-he-won't-he speculation surrounding Dangerfield, then Lever/Cameron and now Sloane can disrupt the unity and cohesion of a team. Look at Richmond --- they were lifted and united by Dusty's re-signing and further inspired by his Brownlow and peer-voted MVP wins. Knowing that you have the best (or most in-form) player in the league in your side must be an inspiration, especially to the Tigers' younger players.
Conversely, Pyke had to patch up a team that suffered untimely injuries to some of its best players, and try to unite the team against the Lever/Cameron resentment.

Forcing Sloane to make a decision now is no different to a player forcing the club to make a decision on their contract extension

I get your point but I wasn't talking about "forcing" in either case.
Nothing wrong with Pykey going to Sloane and saying, "So, waddaya reckon? You staying or going?". I expect that Walsh asked PD the same thing. It's a fair question.
Pyke can then make plans based on his answer. eg If Sloane is going, and wants it kept quiet, OK, Pyke can then give some game time to a potential replacement for 2019.

In the case of Dangerfield, Walsh had the chance to trade him since he would've asked that question before Trade week. Maybe Pyke has had the same chance; we'll never know. I just think it'd give the boys a lift if Sloane committed for another 2 years.

 

[CrowBloke]

P.S. (afterthought)
All that might change if we go top this year.
Pyke might even say to Sloane "Well done, thankya for the rabbits --- your service/record has been impeccable. If you wanna stay to try for another Flag, great. If you wanna go with a Flag under your belt, OK, we want you to stay, but all the best".

 

[CrowBloke]

We were more unsettled going into the finals in 97 & 98. We lost the likes of Modra & Roo. We were more settled going into 2017 than 1997!

I remember both years vividly. The big difference between then and 2017:
--- we had Blight at the helm. He's a rabbit-out-of-the-hat genius.
--- the players who came in for Modra and Roo played their nuts off = better depth.

Your next point is spot-on:

The key is planning for different scenarios, so that we have contingencies for when things don't go to plan. We should be using more of our depth during the year & trying players in different positions, so that we have the flexibility to cover the loss of any player.

At the start of 97 Blight played blokes out of "their position". At first it was confusing to me and probably them but it created the kind of flexibility you're talking about that the 2018 Crows need.
(Re: Ellen
Apparently Blighty had remembered a game years ago, when he watched Ellen dob 1.1 for South Adelaide on a windy day. The move was inspired.

The blokes who replaced Gov and Smith in 2017 had no such impact.
Look also at:
http://www.aflplayers.com.au/article/how-shane-ellen-became-a-surprise-grand-final-hero/ )