Analysis Same Structures vs Radical Change?

[Kane McGoodwin]

I remember both years vividly. The big difference between then and 2017:
--- we had Blight at the helm. He's a rabbit-out-of-the-hat genius.
--- the players who came in for Modra and Roo played their nuts off = better depth.

Your next point is spot-on:

At the start of 97 Blight played blokes out of "their position". At first it was confusing to me and probably them but it created the kind of flexibility you're talking about that the 2018 Crows need.
(Re: Ellen
Apparently Blighty had remembered a game years ago, when he watched Ellen dob 1.1 for South Adelaide on a windy day. The move was inspired.

The blokes who replaced Gov and Smith in 2017 had no such impact.
Look also at:
http://www.aflplayers.com.au/article/how-shane-ellen-became-a-surprise-grand-final-hero/ )

Agree.

We shouldn't be looking to make excuses why we lost the flag, but we should be learning from it, so we do everything we possibly can to be even more ready next time... & that means having plenty of contingencies for when something probably doesn't go to plan.

 

[John Who]

P.S. (afterthought)
All that might change if we go top this year.
Pyke might even say to Sloane "Well done, thankya for the rabbits --- your service/record has been impeccable. If you wanna stay to try for another Flag, great. If you wanna go with a Flag under your belt, OK, we want you to stay, but all the best".

This was my point before, the Sloane debate would become moot if the whole team improves globally. His contract would no longer become the main talking point.
Also "team unity" is all in the mindset. Players need to learn to deal with the issue of players coming and leaving. No need to feel betrayed or hurt. The main thing is whether players can feel support for one another on the playing field. I have no doubts Sloane will give it his all this year regardless of what happens the year after.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

This was my point before, the Sloane debate would become moot if the whole team improves globally. His contract would no longer become the main talking point.
Also "team unity" is all in the mindset. Players need to learn to deal with the issue of players coming and leaving. No need to feel betrayed or hurt. The main thing is whether players can feel support for one another on the playing field. I have no doubts Sloane will give it his all this year regardless of what happens the year after.

If Sloane leaves, which imo is less than more likely, we must target another quality midfielder... so the sooner we know, even if kept secret from the public, the better to get in an early offer to another midfielder.

 

[GreyCrow]

A team that stays together with unity of purpose wins Flags (think: Hawthorn at their peak, where players took paycuts to keep the team together).
The will-he-won't-he speculation surrounding Dangerfield, then Lever/Cameron and now Sloane can disrupt the unity and cohesion of a team..

Buddy Franklin hurts your argument

I had a multi post thread topic on this very idea. But I couldnt fit the outlier that was Buddy into it. ie the idea that star players out of contract upset the team balance to a degree teams dont win the flag or make the GF.

Dustys speculation went right through to the start of Finals. Not sure that supports the argument either. Certainly re-signing gave the team a boost but they were on the march before that

 

[CrowBloke]

But I couldnt fit the outlier that was Buddy into it. ie the idea that star players out of contract upset the team balance to a degree teams dont win the flag or make the GF.

Interesting point. Can you tell me more please, maybe in a PM if it's too long to fit in here?
Hawthorn's 2014 Flag was after a very slow start, from memory. SuperCoach Clarkson is the man to thank after Buddy left.

1) Dustys speculation went right through to the start of Finals. Not sure that supports the argument either. Certainly re-signing gave the team a boost but 2) they were on the march before that

1) He might have timed it with his Manager and Coach to give the team a boost after they finished third, who knows?
Sydney were on a roll, too, but the Cats put them out leaving Richmond as the form team of the last 4 or 5 weeks. Not us.
2) yes for sure.
We piddled around in the last 2 minor Round games, resting players, losing to Sydney in a tight one then away to Weagles.
There might have been some complacency in the group, too, as in
"We've been so good that we can't get knocked out of top spot with 2 rounds to play. We can rest players. We can lose to WC. All we have to do is win three finals.
[later]
We've made the GF. We beat this mob by nearly 13 goals at home. They won't be able to turn that around. Not just that, with everything that's happened (deaths/ illness/ injuries) we deserve to win this Flag".
11 wins on the trot won't win #12, the GF --- ask NM in '98.
Finishing top doesn't guarantee a flag, either.
Pykey knew that getting to the GF wasn't enough but was either unable to get that across or the players were as disunited, and disorganised by injury, as I suspect. Richmond made it happen, on the day.

 

[Roovolution]

IMO 2018 will be won or lost in the heads of the players. Im pessimistic on that basis. ( i dont care what others think, if Rory hasn't signed by round 1 that will have an impact on the playing group as like us they will understand he is more gone than staying.

Go Crows.

By Round 1 isn’t going to happen but I get your point.

 

[Roovolution]

Buddy Franklin hurts your argument

I had a multi post thread topic on this very idea. But I couldnt fit the outlier that was Buddy into it. ie the idea that star players out of contract upset the team balance to a degree teams dont win the flag or make the GF.

Dustys speculation went right through to the start of Finals. Not sure that supports the argument either. Certainly re-signing gave the team a boost but they were on the march before that

But we’ve already lost a heap of players and Sloaney is the heart and soul of this team. It’s different.

 

[Roovolution]

P.S. Not sure where to post this --- but regardless of 2018 structure/ gameplan Pyke's gotta get this bloke playing AFL asap.
Check out the pic of ripped E-Y here:
http://www.afc.com.au/news/2017-12-30/i-just-want-to-play-ellisyolmen

He certainly looks good in a guernesy but that doesn’t mean he’ll be much chop.

 

[Roovolution]

I agree that changes will in part be forced on us ......but Pyke has shown that he subscribes to the theory, familiarity = cohesive teamwork

With Gibbs & Gibson coming in, and having lost Smith & Lever .....i think the chances of a Laird move to the midfield is 0%

Yep, Pyke doesn’t strike me as the bold type.

 

[Maggsy]

Taking into account Injuries, trades and strategy, I would say;

OUT/Under pressure of Regular 22: Cameron, Lever, Smith(inj), Mackay, Seedsman, Otten.

IN/ Step up to Regular 22: Gibbs, Gibson, Milera, Doedee, Gallucci, Fogarty, Hampton.

But I would keep the same structure / game plan etc.

With Mackay, Seedsman and Otten, I'm sure they ALL play games this season, but they will need to prove their worth in the SANFL and maintain decent form to maintain a spot in the 22.

 

[Sanders]

Good teams put a ton of work into Lynch because we struggle because he struggles. That doesn't make him a downhill skier, but we need to be able to find another avenue like McGovern perhaps moving a bit further up the ground to counter when Lynch gets blanketed.

I agree

We go as he goes. Tex is a bit the same

Fine line between being a barometer and a down hill skier

 

[The Sloane Ranger]

Improvement requires some change whether that be structure, personnel or game plan, I expect a tweaking of all 3 areas

 

[craig crowing]

Our forward line worried me even though so highly rated and for most parts of season we scored highly.
if look back at player possessions from our forwards you will see how important Lynch was .
Haven't got actual stats but look at possessions of
Cameron
Betts
Jenkins
Walker
and even McGovern who were the mainstays of our forward line and put Otten and Milera in there and looks worse.
That is why I was happy losing Cameron even though was exciting we did not need another small forward who did not good possession numbers when already had Betts.
Obviously at this stage we can't say we have a player that this season that is going too help out in that area but have to say that good chance a Gallucci or more mature Milera or even Fogerty can do but more importantly not butcher the ball and can kick a goal when has opportunity.

 

[MRB37]

Yep, Pyke doesn’t strike me as the bold type.

I don't think he's not "bold", I don't think a coach would put in the high scoring, high risk gameplan we have if he wasn't. He just seems to have an extremely high level of faith and trust in himself, his systems and the players who he believes can carry it out, which is higher than some coaches might have. Last thing we need is another Sanderson who constantly second-guessed himself and his decisions.

It's not the worst thing, nor the best, but it may be something he needs to tweak too, he's not a massively experienced coach, certainly not in the head coaching role, so he'll still be making mistakes and learning from them. If you go too far in the opposite direction you end up like Luke Beveridge where he's making 5-6 changes multiple weeks in a row and you can't build up any sort of consistency or cohesion.

 

[LittleCrowBoy]

I think the GF result highlights the limitation of ANY structure.
It's football ....not chess.

Attitude = 60%
Skill = 40%
Structure = 10%
(Makes up the 110% required by stupid commentators

All things being equal structure can win you the game...but if you don't have the right attitude...you lose anyway.

I'm more concerned with our continued reliance on players who LACK killer instinct in big away finals - Mackay, Jenkins and to a lesser extent Atkins.

We won't be winning a premierirship anytime soon with these guys in the team - unless they grow a pair of balls and man up when it counts....who we replace the other positions with is mearly shifting deck chairs on the Titanic.

 

[blackadda]

P.S. Not sure where to post this --- but regardless of 2018 structure/ gameplan Pyke's gotta get this bloke playing AFL asap.
Check out the pic of ripped E-Y here:
http://www.afc.com.au/news/2017-12-30/i-just-want-to-play-ellisyolmen

Absolutely.. I really hope he makes the grade this year and establishes himself.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

 

[CrowBloke]

He certainly looks good in a guernesy but that doesn’t mean he’ll be much chop.

He was well on his way to forcing a regular position in the best 22, then did a knee.
I'd play him, fully fit, in front of Mackay (who looks like a skinny, underfed boy by comparison), even Otten.

 

[LittleCrowBoy]

I'd suggest our regular season structure works fine.

In lower intensity games players like Mackay, Jenkins, Atkins and Otten look like world beaters....accountability is low as are the stakes.

But perhaps Blight was onto something that we have forgotten or just don't want to accept.
The GF is an away from home pressure cooker....the umpiring becomes erratic to say the least...and your talls get no help at all.

Using Jenkins during the season proper makes sense....playing him in the GF doesn't ...I know that seems unfair...but history showed we needed Modra to get us there...then a more mobile team to finish it off.

Blight had the guts to make these tough assessments.

My take is Jenkins, Mackay and Otten should not have played.

 

[mistylake]

I'd suggest our regular season structure works fine.

In lower intensity games players like Mackay, Jenkins, Atkins and Otten look like world beaters....accountability is low as are the stakes.

But perhaps Blight was onto something that we have forgotten or just don't want to accept.
The GF is an away from home pressure cooker....the umpiring becomes erratic to say the least...and your talls get no help at all.

Using Jenkins during the season proper makes sense....playing him in the GF doesn't ...I know that seems unfair...but history showed we needed Modra to get us there...then a more mobile team to finish it off.

Blight had the guts to make these tough assessments.

My take is Jenkins, Mackay and Otten should not have played.

I agree. If the players are in it for nothing more than the money now. We use them up, only to the value they are worth to us. Shirk the issue your out, fail to chase or spread your out.
Play to 100% capacity your in.
Play injured when you know it, because your working on your match tally and payments, your suspended.
Do it in finals your trade bait.

 

[Roovolution]

He was well on his way to forcing a regular position in the best 22, then did a knee.
I'd play him, fully fit, in front of Mackay (who looks like a skinny, underfed boy by comparison), even Otten.

McKay plays a rebounding role which CEY isn’t suited for. I’m no McKay fan but there’s quite a difference in pace between the two.

 

[Mismatched]

I remember both years vividly. The big difference between then and 2017:
--- we had Blight at the helm. He's a rabbit-out-of-the-hat genius.
--- the players who came in for Modra and Roo played their nuts off = better depth.

)

I’m not sure we had better depth, Aaron Keating managed a grand total of 0 disposals, 3 hitouts and 1 tackle in the GF. Plenty of guys played pretty average games. In fact we had 3 players combine for a total of 2 possessions thanks to Injuries. It’s wasnt depth so much as a the whole side playing an awesome team game with a few great cameos(eg Ellen and Bond) and a couple of superstars playing monster games(McLeod/Jarman), coupled with the genius of Blight. Our 22 entering the 2017 GF was far superior, on paper at least, across the ground than our 1997 side.

 

[John Who]

I’m not sure we had better depth, Aaron Keating managed a grand total of 0 disposals, 3 hitouts and 1 tackle in the GF. Plenty of guys played pretty average games. In fact we had 3 players combine for a total of 2 possessions thanks to Injuries. It’s wasnt depth so much as a the whole side playing an awesome team game with a few great cameos(eg Ellen and Bond) and a couple of superstars playing monster games(McLeod/Jarman), coupled with the genius of Blight. Our 22 entering the 2017 GF was far superior, on paper at least, across the ground than our 1997 side.

When it boils down to the meat of the issue, a champion team will nearly always trounce a team of champions!
Our aim should really be focusing on team unity and working harder, but in unison. The GF won in 97 and 98 were won more on team spirit rather than us being a better team. Aaron Keating, Clay Sampson, even Shane Ellen were some names that come to mind. None were household names and none have been remembered apart from their performances on GF day!

 

[CrowBloke]

If the players are in it for nothing more than the money now. We use them up, only to the value they are worth to us. Shirk the issue your out, fail to chase or spread your out.
Play to 100% capacity your in.
Play injured when you know it, because your working on your match tally and payments, your suspended.
Do it in finals your trade bait.

This!
Jeez I wish. Players would get the message quick-smart.

 

[CrowBloke]

Aaron Keating managed a grand total of 0 disposals, 3 hitouts and 1 tackle in the GF.

Keating didn't come in for Modra or Roo.
His job was to compete and unsettle opponent ruckmen.

 

[MRB37]

I don't think Atkins issue is a lack of killer instinct, just a complete inability to win the ball himself. He's 100% outside, when we don't win the midfield battle a guy like that is going to look largely invisible.