Injury Sandi out for eight weeks

[believe_it]

Last year I was all for keeping Griffin playing instead of Sandi when he came back from injury . Griffin always played well and the opposition seemed to have found a way to use Sandi to their own advantage. It was really annoying seeing them taking the clearances.

However when Sandi came back it was observable that work had been done by Fremantle to try and get back that advantage. He was back to the clear number one ruckman again in my opinion.

 

[IAMJUNGLEMUFFIN]

Someone mentioned before on the main board that you if look at the flipside of it, every tap that he wins is one that the opposition ruckman doesn't. Benefit in two folds, one he tries to give our players first opportunity and he quells the influence of the opposition ruckmen. Just look at the Richmond and North games. He dominated maric in the 1st half and demolished todd goldstein. Both very good ruckman, one maybe AA.

Yeah, main board/FFC board, posted by the only campaigner with a clue......... but hey, let's not split hairs.

Bigfooty: Plagiarism for idiots.

 

[kp junior]

Someone mentioned before on the main board that you if look at the flipside of it, every tap that he wins is one that the opposition ruckman doesn't. Benefit in two folds, one he tries to give our players first opportunity and he quells the influence of the opposition ruckmen. Just look at the Richmond and North games. He dominated maric in the 1st half and demolished todd goldstein. Both very good ruckman, one maybe AA.

And if the opposition base their gameplan around having a good ruckman that normally wins a good share of taps, well that gameplan cannot function v Sandilands. they have to switch to sharking Sandi's taps, sometimes with some success unfortuntely

 

[E Shed]

Last year I was all for keeping Griffin playing instead of Sandi when he came back from injury . Griffin always played well and the opposition seemed to have found a way to use Sandi to their own advantage. It was really annoying seeing them taking the clearances.

However when Sandi came back it was observable that work had been done by Fremantle to try and get back that advantage. He was back to the clear number one ruckman again in my opinion.

This is about it for me too. I think now that we finally have a decent midfield and coaching group for them he has become a major weapon again. All those years wasted rucking to our slow midget brigade . .
I'm pretty sure if he's available Ross will start him as number 1 every time and really thats all you need to know about how he's rated.

 

[Nodgey]

I've got a (eagle supporting) mate who thinks Sandi is rubbish - but moreso because he should be better than he is given his advantageous height.

And I kind of agree to a point. I think Sandi is clearly one of the top 3 rucks in the game and is a matchwinner on his day, but he isn't as good as he could be at times. His marking should be better, and his tap work needs to be improve. (But hey, who out there on an AFL list doesn't need to improve their game?)

FWIW I think Sandi has improved markedly under Lyon, Stone et al. Was demonstrable in that R22 game V North last year where he and Mundy were sublime.

 

[estibador]

I've got a (eagle supporting) mate who thinks Sandi is rubbish - but moreso because he should be better than he is given his advantageous height.

There's been a few other guys Sandi's height who've come and gone without making the slightest impact on the league, so it's not like his height is some automatic guarantee of dominance. Otherwise every team would have a ruckman his size. In fact it's actually a minor miracle that he's as athletic and coordinated as he is considering his height.

I think he uses his height pretty well around the ground, particularly as a reliable kick out target on the back flank (I just wish he would clunk marks that reliably in the forward line) but it's clear he's not a natural tap ruckman in the way guys like JLo and Clem were.

I actually think he's turned out better than I was expecting when he first came to the club. I thought he was just a big lump we were trying to turn into a blunt weapon, I never expected him to develop his marking, ball handling, clearance work and general skills up to the level he's at now.

 

[PapaJ]

I've got a (eagle supporting) mate who thinks Sandi is rubbish - but moreso because he should be better than he is given his advantageous height.

And I kind of agree to a point. I think Sandi is clearly one of the top 3 rucks in the game and is a matchwinner on his day, but he isn't as good as he could be at times. His marking should be better, and his tap work needs to be improve. (But hey, who out there on an AFL list doesn't need to improve their game?)

FWIW I think Sandi has improved markedly under Lyon, Stone et al. Was demonstrable in that R22 game V North last year where he and Mundy were sublime.

As Esti said above, given his size it's amazing he's as good as he is actually.

It's a bit of curse really because we've not really seen the best of Sandi. The last three seasons or so have really seen him improve out of sight with his kicking, marking and general ball skills (relative to his size), but he just doesn't have the body to stay on the park for more than a few weeks (couple of months or so) at a time to really refine it. His kicking in particular has come a long long way and it's actually very good, for someone of that freaky body shape, it amazes me actually.


Edit: Realise nodgey that you weren't dissing his kicking in particular, just general rambling on my behalf.

 

[malpaso]

It's actually to our advantage to have Sandi rest often during the regular season, last year proved that after he came back in ripping form. The injury is a blessing in disguise for me, Griffin/Clarke can handle it. Clarke will monster it this year.

 

[Righteo]

Inb4 the "Griffin is better anyway" brigade.

Well, on the plus side, at least the better ruckman will now be getting the main gig...

Like clockwork, what an absolute twat.

 

[Righteo]

I like Muffin, but I still think Mems is a WC troll who comes on for some fun when he's bored.

Mems had the most positive post in this thread, he has gotten better recently.

 

[Righteo]

This is about it for me too. I think now that we finally have a decent midfield and coaching group for them he has become a major weapon again. All those years wasted rucking to our slow midget brigade . .
I'm pretty sure if he's available Ross will start him as number 1 every time and really thats all you need to know about how he's rated.

Will be interesting to see the effect Kirky might have this year in terms of our mids being more effective when it comes to sharking his taps, I wouldn't downplay his influence.

 

[tacopavlich]

I think the fact that Sandilands was recovering from turf toe during the early parts of 2012, and that he had a very interrupted run in 2011 is neglected by some people. Sandilands has been as good as he could be (marking and goal kicking aside) that his body and injury has allowed him to be. In 2010 when he had a good run, with a functioning midfield, he was instrumental to us making finals that year and finished high in the brownlow. Later in 2012 showed what a fit Sandilands can deliver. I feel like Sandilands has given everything he could that his body would allow, and would like him to be remembered this way after he retires.

 

[Big Animal]

Just throwin' it out there but:

Griffin is 27 this year
Zarke is 23
Hannath is 21
(and Moller's our baby ruck)

Sandi's injury has shown we might not have him for too many games and possibly not many/any after 2014. He is a weapon that I think should be kept in the sheath until close to finals time or big games. He obviously needs to be managed carefully the rest of his career and not risked on easy beats and travel (where possible i.e. obviously will need to travel some times - finals)

Zarke: 23, good age to step it up. Hasn't shown good ability forward but has shown his potential will likely be met in the middle playing ruck. He's got x-factor, a good jump, a light and accurate tap and good awareness of players arond him (from his bball days), and is athletic and can take a good mark/tackle around the ground. Decent kick. In Sandi's absence I think Zarke should be thrown in the deep end as our No. 1 ruck (maybe use Griff in early important games (e.g. round 1) but Zarke for Bulldogs etc. and so on. He is our future ruck and he has had limited opportunity the last couple of years. If he doesn't get it this year, I think he will look for greener pastures.

Griffin: worked through a few injuries the last couple of seasons. Not a star at AFL level (i.e. only 201cm, not a massive leap, doesn't seem to take contested marks well at AFL level) but works really hard and will always give best effort. Probably got a couple of years left in him until injuries take their toll. Should be back up ruck behind Sandi and Zarke.

Hannath: 21, 201cm. Not the tallest ruck out there at AFL level but has shown he can take contested marks in the forward line at SANFL level (and the intraclub - 4 goals), can kick goals, and is good athletically (for forward pressure). We've seen how quickly it can end for the aging stars and the spot next to Pav needs filling. I think we should develop Hannath as our FF/forward 50 ruck even if a Taberner etc. comes along too as another tall forward. This will take pressure of Pav as Hannath will take the tallest defender (or not, at the opponent's peril).

If the above works (sure their will be some teething and learning) we will have a team of good young rucks/forwards for the next 5 years with the attributes needed for the way the game is going (with less players on the bench), we will have a good support (in Griffin) when we need backup or experience needed to fill in, and the Sandi weapon when he can get on the park (at the expense of Hannath).

Aside from the aging stars Pav, elvis, Sandi, MJ, we have a fairly young team having recruited mainly young players the last few years. Need to set the team up for the future, not just e.g. play Griff when Sandi's out and see Zak leave and go east.
Just my thoughts anyways

 

[jmadrox]

snip
Just my thoughts anyways

i was disappointed not to get the afro samurai as my buddy again this year. Hope he does step up and stays on in Purple for a few more years.

 

[free at last]

signing Clarke must be of huge importance now.
what sort of $$ would Clarke be asking for 300k-400k?

 

[theGav56]

It's actually to our advantage to have Sandi rest often during the regular season, last year proved that after he came back in ripping form. The injury is a blessing in disguise for me, Griffin/Clarke can handle it. Clarke will monster it this year.

Getting some games into Griffin and Clarke is a big plus.

 

[theGav56]

Zarke: 23, good age to step it up. Hasn't shown good ability forward but has shown his potential will likely be met in the middle playing ruck. He's got x-factor, a good jump, a light and accurate tap and good awareness of players arond him (from his bball days), and is athletic and can take a good mark/tackle around the ground. Decent kick. In Sandi's absence I think Zarke should be thrown in the deep end as our No. 1 ruck (maybe use Griff in early important games (e.g. round 1) but Zarke for Bulldogs etc. and so on. He is our future ruck and he has had limited opportunity the last couple of years. If he doesn't get it this year, I think he will look for greener pastures.

Sandilands has shown he is struggling injury wise, and his contract is up in 2014. Griffin has shown he is a decent journey man. Clarke has shown he is not actually ready to be a #1 ruck, nor a convincing forward as of season 2013.

How much greener do you think the pastures need to be? I think he is perfectly positioned in a professional sense. Simply based on Sandilands injury record he should be expecting a few games this year and a few more next year, while supported by a capable ruck in Griffin. If his form warrants it he can also force his way into a best 22 combo alongside Sandilands as their assets seems to compliment each other beautifully. Then after 2014 he can be annointed King in his own right.

We are cashed up. We have the structure for him to develop. We have a pretty defined succession plan. I really cannot see a better situation for him, and also cannot really see a club that is likely to offer him a better contract, situation and future.

 

[Big Animal]

Sandilands has shown he is struggling injury wise, and his contract is up in 2014. Griffin has shown he is a decent journey man. Clarke has shown he is not actually ready to be a #1 ruck, nor a convincing forward as of season 2013.

How much greener do you think the pastures need to be? I think he is perfectly positioned in a professional sense. Simply based on Sandilands injury record he should be expecting a few games this year and a few more next year, while supported by a capable ruck in Griffin. If his form warrants it he can also force his way into a best 22 combo alongside Sandilands as their assets seems to compliment each other beautifully. Then after 2014 he can be annointed King in his own right.

We are cashed up. We have the structure for him to develop. We have a pretty defined succession plan. I really cannot see a better situation for him, and also cannot really see a club that is likely to offer him a better contract, situation and future.

My point is I don't think Zarke can show he is ready to be a #1 ruck unless he gets thrown in the deep end. Playing him for a few games a year or partial games in this position will not make him suddenly ready in a couple of years time.

There are two main issues with ruckmen. They take a while to develop and they are generally injury prone, particularly as they get upwards of 27-28+. Therefore, their key years should be in that 23-28 zone. If Zarke doesn't really take over the key role until 25 or older, but has only played the position a few games a year, he will take time to meet his potential. By then, he will be 27 or so and training, preseasons and games will start to take its toll. That's not exactly what I call maximising his potential for the club.

For the record:
Maric: cemented his spot in the ruck at 23 after the main guys (inc. Griffin) had injuries. Hasn't looked back
Leunberger: 24, key ruck now for Brisbane (when not injured)
Kreuzer 23: key ruckman when not injured
Mumford: 26, was 24 and key ruckman at Sydney when just missed final cut of AA (2010)
Cox: 24 in 2005 when became dominant ruck for WC and never looked back
and I could go on.

So, I don't think leaving Zarke out of the centre ruck position until he is older is going to help him or the team. If he's thrown in the deep end and shows nothing during the next two years, he probably will never really cut it anyways.

 

[PurpleGreenRed]

I've got a (eagle supporting) mate who thinks Sandi is rubbish - but moreso because he should be better than he is given his advantageous height.

And I kind of agree to a point. I think Sandi is clearly one of the top 3 rucks in the game and is a matchwinner on his day, but he isn't as good as he could be at times. His marking should be better, and his tap work needs to be improve. (But hey, who out there on an AFL list doesn't need to improve their game?)

FWIW I think Sandi has improved markedly under Lyon, Stone et al. Was demonstrable in that R22 game V North last year where he and Mundy were sublime.

His marking is a LOT better than it was 7 years ago. We've never had the quality of midfield to use him. When we play against other teams generally everyone watches Sandi. You have midfielders from both sides watching him assuming he's gonna win the tap out...hence the discrepancy between hit outs/to advantage.

 

[theGav56]

My point is I don't think Zarke can show he is ready to be a #1 ruck unless he gets thrown in the deep end. Playing him for a few games a year or partial games in this position will not make him suddenly ready in a couple of years time.

Yeah I got your point....

We live in an era where there is typically a #1 ruck followed by some pinch-hitters or ruckman/forward.

Which team do you see him being guaranteed the #1 ruck in 2014?

 

[free at last]

Yeah I got your point....

We live in an era where there is typically a #1 ruck followed by some pinch-hitters or ruckman/forward.

Which team do you see him being guaranteed the #1 ruck in 2014?

Bulldogs and GWS..

 

[theGav56]

Bulldogs and GWS..

Personally I think Minson is doing ok and I think Clarke would need to bide his time there or work in tandem, which something they are grooming Ayce Cordy for. Would not be an automatic for mine, but may potentially displace Minson. I struggle to see a move to WB being a massive threat. He would be far better biding his time for another year at Freo and potentially being the #1 ruck in our team, with our midfield.

Actually i think he could be a good fit at the Giants, however Giles performed well in 2012. Again I cannot actually see GWS guaranteeing him the #1 ruck role, but maybe.

 

[Clems Knee]

There's a nice little article featuring Paul Salmon in the slimes. Basically says Sandi can keep going for years.

 

[free at last]

Personally I think Minson is doing ok and I think Clarke would need to bide his time there or work in tandem, which something they are grooming Ayce Cordy for. Would not be an automatic for mine, but may potentially displace Minson. I struggle to see a move to WB being a massive threat. He would be far better biding his time for another year at Freo and potentially being the #1 ruck in our team, with our midfield.

Actually i think he could be a good fit at the Giants, however Giles performed well in 2012. Again I cannot actually see GWS guaranteeing him the #1 ruck role, but maybe.

With sandi out for maybe the first month of the season proper you'd expect Clarke and griffo to be going extra hard to maintain their spot for when sandi returns.

 

[freoextra]

With sandi out for maybe the first month of the season proper you'd expect Clarke and griffo to be going extra hard to maintain their spot for when sandi returns.

Can't work out why Sandi's prognosis is 8 weeks, it is a partial tear (25%) of one of 3 tendons. M Marsh ripped of the bone and was back in 13 weeks!