SANFL Round 20

[Crowman32]

McGregor was nothing special today. Kicked 3 goals and took a few marks but along away from warranting a return to the afl next week.

 

[AndrewJo]

Any word on Weekend's stats?

Also just on Welsh....disappointing. Not because he could be out, but because his replacement doesn't have the application to give us anything more.

anything more?? If Jericho does replace Welsh you know that he will get as many kicks as Welshy has done recently....and he can make his kicks count...
Are you Jericho bashing again??

 

[hey shorty]

Well the Blues had another win down at Alberton, probably stitching up 2nd spot. Chambers with 9 takes him to 88 for the season and will probably be the first Blue to kick 100 since Rick Davies ??

Just on Perrie I thought his first half was REASONABLE but he was utterly useless after that..... dunno what the fuss is about Alleway, he was lazy and slow. I was a bit disappointed in Bernies game, just doesnt get enough of it in dangerous areas for mine.

 

[hey shorty]

anything more?? If Jericho does replace Welsh you know that he will get as many kicks as Welshy has done recently....and he can make his kicks count...
Are you Jericho bashing again??

Since when ?? Usually when Welshy gets 6 kicks he kicks 3 goals, when Luke does the same he gets a goal and stuffs the others up. Im not 1 for player bashing but to say that is just stupid.

 

[Dandy_GO]

Since when ?? Usually when Welshy gets 6 kicks he kicks 3 goals, when Luke does the same he gets a goal and stuffs the others up. Im not 1 for player bashing but to say that is just stupid.

And his opponent gets plenty more kicks than him.
Welsh's defensive pressure has been fairly good this year. It doesn't look like we'll ever be able to say the same for Jericho.

 

[macca23]

I watched the second half. Vince did get a few touches but he didnt hurt the Roosters as much as he should have. Burnt the ball a bit and should have slotted a goal.

McGregor was the standout Crows player. He was superb today - great tackles, strong marks and kicked goals under pressure to help set up a win for the Eagles. Everytime Kenny got near the ball good things happened for the Eags. Showed Perrie how it should be done.

There appears to be a fair diversity of opinion on K-Mac's game today for WWT.

I'm more in your camp, for the reason that he made contest after contest besides his own disposals, which led to other scoring opportunities.

WWT would love to have K-Mac every week doing that for them.

Perrie wasn't quite as bad as some have portrayed him IMO either, although a lack of skills stands out whether it be Snaffle or AFL.

Vince read the ball well and did some vital things in the last few minutes which helped to win the game - a thinking footballer.

K-Mac and Vince didn't hurt their AFL chances - Perrie wouldn't have helped them IMO.

 

[jenny61_99]

You blokes are too bloody harsh on Jericho. Every game he has played for the Crows this year, he has improved on the previous. He's going in much harder for the ball than before and is contesting. Time you fellas got behind your players instead of bagging them unfairly. (I say unfairly because Jericho IS working harder than previously. If he was still playing "soft" then I'd say the criticism was warranted. However, he has actually stepped up and the club is rewarding him with selection so please, give the lad a break).

 

[Stiffy_18]

You blokes are too bloody harsh on Jericho. Every game he has played for the Crows this year, he has improved on the previous. He's going in much harder for the ball than before and is contesting. Time you fellas got behind your players instead of bagging them unfairly. (I say unfairly because Jericho IS working harder than previously. If he was still playing "soft" then I'd say the criticism was warranted. However, he has actually stepped up and the club is rewarding him with selection so please, give the lad a break).

Not going to happen because people you are talking about love to flog the dead horse and once they make up their mind on someone, nothing will change it over. Jericho could go on to kick 100 goals in a season, win the brownlow and people would still bag him just for the sake of it!

 

[jenny61_99]

Not going to happen because people you are talking about love to flog the dead horse and once they make up their mind on someone, nothing will change it over. Jericho could go on to kick 100 goals in a season, win the brownlow and people would still bag him just for the sake of it!

It's a pretty sad statement isn't it?

 

[Dandy_GO]

Not going to happen because people you are talking about love to flog the dead horse and once they make up their mind on someone, nothing will change it over. Jericho could go on to kick 100 goals in a season, win the brownlow and people would still bag him just for the sake of it!

Bull ****ing shit.
Many of us have recognised in several posts that Jericho has improved. Until he improves, however, the one area of his game which has always been his problem, which happens to be an area where even the least skilled player should be able to improve, I will continue to be critical of him. It's not for the sake of it and you know it. Show me how many tackles he made last week and I'll gladly show you 10 times that amount where he ran past a contest or failed to help out a teammate or lost a one on one because he didn't commit to the contest. He's almost 23, has been on our list for several seasons, and yet he still plays with very little heart and I'll never be a fan until that improves.

 

[jenny61_99]

Bull ****ing shit.
Many of us have recognised in several posts that Jericho has improved. Until he improves, however, the one area of his game which has always been his problem, which happens to be an area where even the least skilled player should be able to improve, I will continue to be critical of him. It's not for the sake of it and you know it. Show me how many tackles he made last week and I'll gladly show you 10 times that amount where he ran past a contest or failed to help out a teammate or lost a one on one because he didn't commit to the contest. He's almost 23, has been on our list for several seasons, and yet he still plays with very little heart and I'll never be a fan until that improves.

But DG - you can't just level this criticism at him. There are MANY players who don't lay effective tackles or apply defensive pressure throughout the game (particularly this year). There are several others that don't help their team mates out - in fact, very often this year, we've had serial offenders (including senior players) who constistantly put their team mates under enormous pressure by their actions (the quick handpasses to someone surrounded by opposition). And honestly, in that last game I saw Jericho do the things you say he lacks (contrary to the stats he laid at least one good tackle, and contested two strong marks). Ive said previously that I think he isn't quite fit (possible groin problem?) because he has lost that chase - although against the Kangas he did mow someone down. So yes, he still has deficiencies in his game - whether or not they can fix them is unknown at this stage, and only the coaching staff will have any real idea about that. My guess is, if they retain him on the list for 08, there is a fair chance they think they can.

The point I am trying to make though is more about the level of attack over this particular player (and there are a few other whipping boys that tend to be picked on) when the fact is, the weaknesses you dislike about him could be applied to many others in our team this year.

 

[crow87]

Bull ****ing shit.
Many of us have recognised in several posts that Jericho has improved. Until he improves, however, the one area of his game which has always been his problem, which happens to be an area where even the least skilled player should be able to improve, I will continue to be critical of him. It's not for the sake of it and you know it. Show me how many tackles he made last week and I'll gladly show you 10 times that amount where he ran past a contest or failed to help out a teammate or lost a one on one because he didn't commit to the contest. He's almost 23, has been on our list for several seasons, and yet he still plays with very little heart and I'll never be a fan until that improves.

Absolutely agree.

 

[Drummond]

Perrie: 3/10. Kicked two first quarter goals and set up another in a good first term. However North would have been better served playing with 17 men from the second quarter onwards as Perrie game them nothing. Couldn’t take a mark, couldn’t bend down, just had no impact. Needs to spend a long time in the SANFL, or the WAFL, if you catch my drift…

McGregor: 7/10. Started slowly but got better as the game wore on. Impressed with his defensive work and he would’ve had about 5 tackles. He kicked 3 goals and looked dangerous across half forward. Not a dominating performance but he did reasonably well when the ball came his way.

Vince: 6/10. Probably finished with about 20 possessions but IMO barely had an impact on the game. He didn’t hurt North with his disposal and his delivery into the forward line was rather average. Still racked up decent numbers but not a great day.

McIntyre: 2/10. Really struggling and his year has completely gone off the rails since the injury. Found the going very tough against Passador and he didn’t have too many possessions. A day to forget.

 

[jenny61_99]

Do you think Perrie is carrying an injury Drummond? Or has his time just gone?

 

[Dandy_GO]

But DG - you can't just level this criticism at him. There are MANY players who don't lay effective tackles or apply defensive pressure throughout the game (particularly this year). There are several others that don't help their team mates out - in fact, very often this year, we've had serial offenders (including senior players) who constistantly put their team mates under enormous pressure by their actions (the quick handpasses to someone surrounded by opposition). And honestly, in that last game I saw Jericho do the things you say he lacks (contrary to the stats he laid at least one good tackle, and contested two strong marks). Ive said previously that I think he isn't quite fit (possible groin problem?) because he has lost that chase - although against the Kangas he did mow someone down. So yes, he still has deficiencies in his game - whether or not they can fix them is unknown at this stage, and only the coaching staff will have any real idea about that. My guess is, if they retain him on the list for 08, there is a fair chance they think they can.

The point I am trying to make though is more about the level of attack over this particular player (and there are a few other whipping boys that tend to be picked on) when the fact is, the weaknesses you dislike about him could be applied to many others in our team this year.

Last season in our NAB cup game against Melbourne, he ran down Aaron Davey - it was impressive, showed that he can definately do it and I'd love to see more of it, but we rarely do. He has the ability and skill to be a great player, and he looks the goods on the training track, but he has not yet played a game where he's put the body on the line to an even close to satisfactory degree. I can't say that about any other bloke (bar those who haven't actually got a game yet) on our list. Perhaps I am at fault for having very little time for soft players, but I like to see every player give 100%, and Jericho clearly doesn't. It doesn't take skill or talent to go in hard - it just takes heart, desperation and pride in the jumper.
Yes there have been times other players in our team, including players who should know much better, have done the same sort of things that Jericho does, but none of them do it as regularly as Jericho. I can forgive a player for occassionally shirking a contest. I can't forgive a player for doing it 9 times out of 10.

 

[macca23]

Do you think Perrie is carrying an injury Drummond? Or has his time just gone?

 

[Drummond]

Do you think Perrie is carrying an injury Drummond? Or has his time just gone?

Well I will admit I’ve never been a Perrie fan, but surely his time is up.

Out of the AFL forwards in the game today (McGregor, White, Perrie), he was clearly the worst out there. After a good first term he was ineffective for the final 90 minutes. Once upon a time he could take a couple of decent marks but he didn’t look like holding onto any today. He looked dreadfully slow and his opponent, 19 year-old Zach Hier, comprehensively beat him. That doesn’t say much.

It’s time to move on as best days are well behind him.

 

[jenny61_99]

Last season in our NAB cup game against Melbourne, he ran down Aaron Davey - it was impressive, showed that he can definately do it and I'd love to see more of it, but we rarely do. He has the ability and skill to be a great player, and he looks the goods on the training track, but he has not yet played a game where he's put the body on the line to an even close to satisfactory degree. I can't say that about any other bloke (bar those who haven't actually got a game yet) on our list. Perhaps I am at fault for having very little time for soft players, but I like to see every player give 100%, and Jericho clearly doesn't. It doesn't take skill or talent to go in hard - it just takes heart, desperation and pride in the jumper.
Yes there have been times other players in our team, including players who should know much better, have done the same sort of things that Jericho does, but none of them do it as regularly as Jericho. I can forgive a player for occassionally shirking a contest. I can't forgive a player for doing it 9 times out of 10.

Are you telling me he shirked a contest 9 out of 10 times in his last couple of games because I beg to differ. I think people who don't like a particular player focus only on the negative things they do, and seem to gloss over the positives. I can guarantee if you applied the same level of scrutiny as you do to Jericho's games on other players performances in the team, you would be mightily surprised.

 

[Mego Red]

Not going to happen because people you are talking about love to flog the dead horse and once they make up their mind on someone, nothing will change it over. Jericho could go on to kick 100 goals in a season, win the brownlow and people would still bag him just for the sake of it!

It is symptomatic of some terrible analysis - I would probably be okay if someone gets an opinion in their mind and doesn't shake from it. But some folks on this board READ an opinion, decide to agree with it and won't move, no matter what.

 

[Drummond]

Are you telling me he shirked a contest 9 out of 10 times in his last couple of games because I beg to differ. I think people who don't like a particular player focus only on the negative things they do, and seem to gloss over the positives. I can guarantee if you applied the same level of scrutiny as you do to Jericho's games on other players performances in the team, you would be mightily surprised.

I disagree jenny. You say that we like to focus only on the negatives; well maybe you focus just on the positives? Yes even in the game against Geelong he didn’t go in hard enough. Look back at the first quarter, there were at least 3-4 contests where he allowed his opponent to gain possession because he wasn’t 100% committed to getting it himself. As I’ve said COUNTLESS times, he is fine with the ball as he has good skills, but it’s what happens without the ball that lets him down. Take a contest in the second quarter for example. It was near the boundary line, Jericho looked to be in control of the situation and he had a teammate not far away, and yet Mackie came in and knocked the ball over the line simply because he wanted it more.

Good skills, good overhead, but dreadful in a 1-on-1 contest. If he does indeed play tomorrow, do me a favour and look specifically at his game. Look at what happens when he doesn’t have the ball. Does he work his backside off to get it back? Does he chase? Is he prepared to take a hit by putting his body on the line? I think you’ll find the answer more often than not is NO.

 

[Dandy_GO]

Are you telling me he shirked a contest 9 out of 10 times in his last couple of games because I beg to differ. I think people who don't like a particular player focus only on the negative things they do, and seem to gloss over the positives. I can guarantee if you applied the same level of scrutiny as you do to Jericho's games on other players performances in the team, you would be mightily surprised.

Yes I am. Besides one effort leading to a nice pass to a teammate and two decent marks, he was piss poor against Geelong. I wish I had a copy of the game because I could make a video of the countless times he ran past a contest, failed to help a teammate out, ran away from the ball, ran away from the man, lost a one on one contest due to not putting his body on the line, lost us a two on one contest due to not putting his body on the line, tackled at arms length etc. etc.
I DO notice these things in ALL our players - I suppose it's my nature as a football viewer to notice them, perhaps because I've always considered going in hard to be the most important thing in football, and it really really sticks out for me when someone fails to do it. As I said, I have seen it from other players, but I see it from Jericho far, far, far too often and it dissappoints me every time.
I don't bag him because he's Jericho, I bag him because he doesn't play with any heart. I've never bagged popular whipping boys Perrie or Burton, for instance, because they've always done their best. That's the one non-negotiable I expect from all our players and until Jericho does it, I'll be unhappy every time I see him selected.

 

[macca23]

I don't bag him because he's Jericho, I bag him because he doesn't play with any heart. I've never bagged popular whipping boys Perrie or Burton, for instance, because they've always done their best. That's the one non-negotiable I expect from all our players and until Jericho does it, I'll be unhappy every time I see him selected.

Shhhh. Don't you know it's fashionable at the moment to say there's nothing wrong with Jericho, imagine that he has this great work ethic and that he is unfairly treated by the selectors, and then bag anybody who is unhappy with his work rate???

I'm the same as you - the one non-negotiable is putting your body on the line in the hard contests for the team.

While Jericho has improved a little - as has his game - he stands out as being comfortably our worst player in this area.

If he ever made the grade in this department, he could well be a player of significance for us. Until that happens you're totally justified in your comments IMO.

 

[jenny61_99]

I disagree jenny. You say that we like to focus only on the negatives; well maybe you focus just on the positives? Yes even in the game against Geelong he didn’t go in hard enough. Look back at the first quarter, there were at least 3-4 contests where he allowed his opponent to gain possession because he wasn’t 100% committed to getting it himself. As I’ve said COUNTLESS times, he is fine with the ball as he has good skills, but it’s what happens without the ball that lets him down. Take a contest in the second quarter for example. It was near the boundary line, Jericho looked to be in control of the situation and he had a teammate not far away, and yet Mackie came in and knocked the ball over the line simply because he wanted it more.

Good skills, good overhead, but dreadful in a 1-on-1 contest. If he does indeed play tomorrow, do me a favour and look specifically at his game. Look at what happens when he doesn’t have the ball. Does he work his backside off to get it back? Does he chase? Is he prepared to take a hit by putting his body on the line? I think you’ll find the answer more often than not is NO.

I am not saying (and never have said) he has no faults. My only argument has been that he appears to be doing something about them and is performing much better than he has previously. It may not be good enough in the end, but only the coach will know that.

Do me a favour, and apply the same scrutiny to everyone else! I think you will be surprised at how flawed many of our players are. When we are playing well, we "overlook" these flaws, when we are not, they are clear as day. Fact is, we don't ever apply this level of scrutiny to players we love and enjoy watching.

It's too easy to lable a player as "soft" - and much harder for that player to earn the right to remove that lable.

 

[Drummond]

I am not saying (and never have said) he has no faults. My only argument has been that he appears to be doing something about them and is performing much better than he has previously. It may not be good enough in the end, but only the coach will know that.

It’s a myth that he’s performing much better than he has previously. Just because he’s getting an AFL game here and there doesn’t mean he’s suddenly a superior player. He's still soft and he still goes into contests half hearted, this certainly hasn't improved. Even in the SANFL he doesn't commit himself at the contest nearly as much as he should.

Do me a favour, and apply the same scrutiny to everyone else! I think you will be surprised at how flawed many of our players are. When we are playing well, we "overlook" these flaws, when we are not, they are clear as day. Fact is, we don't ever apply this level of scrutiny to players we love and enjoy watching.

As has been said above, there are many players in our team with flaws. Heck, everyone in the league has flaws. But even the most mediocre players on our list at least give 100% every time they step on the park. They’ll put their body on the line to win the 1%’s, that’s where Jericho is sorely lacking.

Take this post from a Norwood fan for example, probably hates the Crows for all I know…

Hopefully Jericho plays and with a little bit of fire in his guts!

You’ll find it’s pretty much common knowledge he’s soft. But you're never going to agree because you’re set in your ways that he’s not soft.

 

[- PC -]

You’ll find it’s pretty much common knowledge he’s soft. But you're never going to agree because you’re set in your ways that he’s not soft.

And you will be forever set in your ways that he is soft. If he starts laying tackles etc you will still dismiss him

Oh and yes I do have issues with his lack of body, but he is in the side and while he contributes in other ways then I will keep silent. It was when he wasnt even getting the ball that my voice was loud