SC Rucks Discussion Thread

[Strahany]

Neither, get two premiuim ruckman.

You have Sandy, Cox and Jolly to choose from.

My team is too locked elsewhere to afford any options other than this (or ones of practically identical price)

 

[ThePezDispenser]

My team is too locked elsewhere to afford any options other than this (or ones of practically identical price)

I'm sorry mate, but you need to start again.

All you are doing are wasted trades further down the track. Get the rucks set and then work from there.

 

[MightyMark]

Neither, get two premiuim ruckman.

You have Sandy, Cox and Jolly to choose from.

I agree with you about getting 2 premiums. You should pick your rucks at the start with the hope of leaving them for the year. But there are more then 3 premium rucks, what about Mumford or Jamar?

 

[ThePezDispenser]

Mummy - Ill pay that he's just someone I've never contemplated getting, but 80 point average for Jamar, doesn't make him a premium.

 

[MightyMark]

Mummy - Ill pay that he's just someone I've never contemplated getting, but 80 point average for Jamar, doesn't make him a premium.

I'll give you that 80 points is not a premium, but Jolly only managed to average 79 and you have listed him. I'll admit that Jolly has been up there longer than Jamar, but Jamar can get some good scores and is fairly consistent. The same could be said about Ryder who has averaged mid 80's for the past 2 seasons.
I would be confident going into the season having Jamar as my second ruck.

 

[ThePezDispenser]

I'll give you that 80 points is not a premium, but Jolly only managed to average 79 and you have listed him. I'll admit that Jolly has been up there longer than Jamar, but Jamar can get some good scores and is fairly consistent. The same could be said about Ryder who has averaged mid 80's for the past 2 seasons.
I would be confident going into the season having Jamar as my second ruck.

Yeah, but you won't

And Jolly averaged over 100 in the last part of the season when he got use to his role in the team.

 

[MightyMark]

Yeah, but you won't

And Jolly averaged over 100 in the last part of the season when he got use to his role in the team.

Haha, yeah that is true, there are better options than Jamar, and i wont be starting with him.
But my point is if you want a unique pick both Jamar and even Ryder seem to fly under the radar even though they averaged 81 and 85 last year respectively. Not premiums, but will get consistently good scores, and are both more than capable of topping the ton several times through out the year.
In the end Sandilands is the only Premium ruckman going into the season. Cox is capable of returning to premium form, but his run as a premium might be over. Jolly and Mumford are the others that are capable of becoming premiums, but niether have ever reached the hieghts of Cox or Sandilands. Jolly's highest average for a season is 92.9 and Mumfords is 92.6, which doesn't put them in premium status, but as far as ruckman go close enough. Far better options than McEvoy.

 

[Canyouhearthedrums]

Any love for Warnock? Was killing it towards the end of last year and has had his first full pre season in forever. Is good around the ground, takes a decent mark, wins alot of tapouts and will carry the load until Kreuzer is fit.

Downside is that he's awkwardly priced and probably needs to move into keeper category to be a good pick.

 

[Canyouhearthedrums]

I'm sorry mate, but you need to start again.

All you are doing are wasted trades further down the track. Get the rucks set and then work from there.

I don't agree with this. If you start 2 premium rucks, you'll be down a premium in another position and have to use a trade upgrading them. At the end of the day there is only so much money to go around.

Given the ruck position can be pretty volatile and people tend to come from nowhere, there is no harm starting with a second stringer and upgrading to this year's Mummy or whoever.

 

[Super Gusto]

I don't agree with this. If you start 2 premium rucks, you'll be down a premium in another position and have to use a trade upgrading them. At the end of the day there is only so much money to go around.

Given the ruck position can be pretty volatile and people tend to come from nowhere, there is no harm starting with a second stringer and upgrading to this year's Mummy or whoever.

Have to agree with Pez here. I've started with a second string ruck in the past and regretted it every time.

Basically if your rucks are right from the get go, then it's one less position you need to worry about. It's the first postion i focus on.

 

[MrChristo]

Basically if your rucks are right from the get go, then it's one less position you need to worry about. It's the first postion i focus on.

Why?

As the previous poster said, the upgrade you now "don't have to worry about" has just been moved to another area of your team.

Can't see at all how it saves a trade.

Obviously the bottom line total points, but still underlying is the old point/$.

At the end of the day if you can save $200k that costs you 20 points in the ruck (purely made up numbers of course), but that money makes up 30 points somewhere else then surely it's a win.

 

[dlanod]

A better reason for going the premium ruck route is because for any upgrading trade, i.e. not injury or form-based, you need two cash cows, one to downgrade and one to upgrade. The one to upgrade needs to be in the position that you're bringing the premium in to.

Now, as an exercise for the reader, can you name any good ruck cash cows over the last three years that made $150-200k for this to be worthwhile? Now compare that limited list, if any, to the list of midfielders, defenders and forwards that fall into this list.

That's why I go for two premium rucks. Theoretically a midpriced ruck that rises $100k could work, but again you're making less money than picking a premium to start with and downgrading someone else to a real cash cow.

 

[ThePezDispenser]

At the end of the day if you can save $200k that costs you 20 points in the ruck (purely made up numbers of course), but that money makes up 30 points somewhere else then surely it's a win.

20 points lol

The difference between a premium ruckman and a sub 200k ruckman is about 60. Young ruckman don't score well simple as that. You are better off with the rookies in the midfield, backs and forwards who can actually make cash.

Exactly what dlanod explained.

But hey you lot seem to know what you're doing so why not go for the Warnock and David Hale combo that will save you 500k

 

[Kramer1]

Have to agree with Pez here. I've started with a second string ruck in the past and regretted it every time.

Basically if your rucks are right from the get go, then it's one less position you need to worry about. It's the first postion i focus on.

I have to back my fellow blue. Most years doesn't present the opportuntities in ruck that this year does. To have Petrie and Fraser available at not much more than rookie price is a huge bonus. Every year there is a premium ruck that crashes early on (Jolly last year) and it will be the same this year.

It's the strength of the bench rucks that make or break, not necessarily the starters.

 

[Kramer1]

20 points lol

But hey you lot seem to know what you're doing so why not go for the Warnock and David Hale combo that will save you 500k

On the contrary, you seem to be the only one on here that knows what you're doing as any opinion other than your own is lol-worthy.

We're lucky to have you.

 

[ThePezDispenser]

I have to back my fellow blue. Most years doesn't present the opportuntities in ruck that this year does. To have Petrie and Fraser available at not much more than rookie price is a huge bonus. Every year there is a premium ruck that crashes early on (Jolly last year) and it will be the same this year.

It's the strength of the bench rucks that make or break, not necessarily the starters.

Neither of them are viable 2nd ruck options. Before his suspension I was considering Pertie as a forward that I could move into my rucks if the need arises however now I can't see how i can carry someone who won't be there 2 of the first 3 rounds. I have till the start of Round 5 to pick him up at his original price if he is playing well.

And Fraser's injuries, in my opinion, are not worth the risk.

Plus every year has ruck opportunities - Last year was Tippett, Clark and Seaby - How did they go again?

 

[Hu$tler]

If Ryder can go from getting 10-15 hit outs a game to 20-25, he could be the man this year.

 

[Kramer1]

Neither of them are viable 2nd ruck options. Before his suspension I was considering Pertie as a forward that I could move into my rucks if the need arises however now I can't see how i can carry someone who won't be there 2 of the first 3 rounds. I have till the start of Round 5 to pick him up at his original price if he is playing well.

And Fraser's injuries, in my opinion, are not worth the risk.

Plus every year has ruck opportunities - Last year was Tippett, Clark and Seaby - How did they go again?

Of course they are. Petrie's suspension muddied the waters, but he has more use as a ruck than a forward, given some reasonably good options at a similar price points amongst forwards.

Fraser had a poor 2010 and thats what people will remember. On the injury front one doesn't need an injury free season to see benefit, just 8-10 solid games. A fresh start, an injury free pre-season (to date) and mortgage on the number one rucking position are certainly in his favour.

Anyone who went Tippett last year given his pre-season wasn't paying attention, Seaby fell to injury so can't really speculate, Clark was no bargain given his 2009, and as we all know beware the breakout year.

Sandi aside rucks are flaky. Good year to take a calculated risk IMO.

 

[Super Gusto]

Why?

As the previous poster said, the upgrade you now "don't have to worry about" has just been moved to another area of your team.

Can't see at all how it saves a trade.

Obviously the bottom line total points, but still underlying is the old point/$.

At the end of the day if you can save $200k that costs you 20 points in the ruck (purely made up numbers of course), but that money makes up 30 points somewhere else then surely it's a win.

Not fussed what you do mate. We'll find out at the end of the year what the best call was.

 

[GotTheGoodes]

...

But hey you lot seem to know what you're doing so why not go for the Warnock and David Hale combo that will save you 500k

On the contrary, you seem to be the only one on here that knows what you're doing as any opinion other than your own is lol-worthy.

We're lucky to have you.

Keep it civilised please lads, I hate having to scroll through your b*tching to find the informed, logical opinions. It's a discussion not an argument.

 

[MrChristo]

20 points lol

The difference between a premium ruckman and a sub 200k ruckman is about 60. Young ruckman don't score well simple as that. You are better off with the rookies in the midfield, backs and forwards who can actually make cash.

Exactly what dlanod explained.

At no stage did anyone mention starting a sub 200k ruckman...

...and you're not really suggesting that Mumford/Cox will average 60+ more than a couple of guys around the 300 mark are you...

A better reason for going the premium ruck route is because for any upgrading trade, i.e. not injury or form-based, you need two cash cows, one to downgrade and one to upgrade. The one to upgrade needs to be in the position that you're bringing the premium in to.

Now, as an exercise for the reader, can you name any good ruck cash cows over the last three years that made $150-200k for this to be worthwhile? Now compare that limited list, if any, to the list of midfielders, defenders and forwards that fall into this list.

That's why I go for two premium rucks. Theoretically a midpriced ruck that rises $100k could work, but again you're making less money than picking a premium to start with and downgrading someone else to a real cash cow.


What dlanod seems to me to be saying is a bit irrelevant (no offense!)...because to upgrade a ruckman, the cow (obviously) doesn't have to be a ruck as well.
Do I care how many cash cow ruckman there have been? Nope.
If you start two 'premium' ruckmen, do the bench ruckmen still not count?

Even if we discount the bench rucks (which is a fair point, that I certainly don't disagree with), someone with only 1 premium ruck has still got 9 perfectly good cows the same as you do...
...and very likely one more keeper forward/back/mid that they don't have to worry about upgrading like you do.
[And just on your last point...you are discounting the prospect of the Premium losing money early...theoretically of course. ]

And SDR223, just to be clear, I don't give a toss what you do either, but I'm sure you'll forgive me for presenting a few different logical arguments/options rather than simply telling someone their team is shite and they should just start again.
(But thanks for your input.)

 

[ThePezDispenser]

Bit cranky, buddy?

Mumford and Cox may not average 60 more, however Sandilands and Cox would average 60 more than the Hales, Warnocks etc

It's pretty simple it come down to the scoring power of a rookie outside of the ruck compared to a rookie in your rucks. The rookie ouside the rucks is always going to average more, therefore you will score more.

 

[MrChristo]

No. Not one little bit. Like I said, I'd rather throw out some things for people to think about rather than belting them with a stick.

The 'problem' with what you're saying is that you're assuming it over the whole season...

I'm not at all suggessting Sandilands won't av. 100+ by rd. 22 (Still, your 60+ is rediculous...just to highlight, if you take out Sandilands, the next 10 ruckmen all av'd with 13 of each other...(inc. Mumford, McIntosh, Bradley who were all super cheap...plus half the world was on Naitanui of course), but as I said, you seem to be discounting the fact that the value of premiums may actually fall...therefore compensating for the lack of 'rookie growth'.

 

[larrikan]

FRASER ALERT!!!

I'll preface this by saying Josh Fraser was a great servant for the Collingwood FC....BUT
everyone needs to get their facts straight. Fraser has a CHRONIC knee injury. Collingwood recruited Jolly because we knew Fraser was a game to game risk. Then a fit Fraser did not do anything outstanding in the VFL to force his way back. He was average when fit in the VFL last year. Fraser was a cheap option for GC and a great mentor for some outstanding young talls. You are asking for trouble using him for R2 and risking and wasting money on R3/R4.

 

[Ed D]

What dlanod seems to me to be saying is a bit irrelevant (no offense!)...because to upgrade a ruckman, the cow (obviously) doesn't have to be a ruck as well.
Do I care how many cash cow ruckman there have been? Nope.
If you start two 'premium' ruckmen, do the bench ruckmen still not count?

I think you missed dlanod's point. If you cash in a cash cow to upgrade a mid price ruck, you're likely to not be getting as much value as upgrading in another area because the ruck you're upgrading won't have risen as much.

For example, you have a $250k ruckman vs a $250k forward. Your mid price ruck say goes up $80k to be $330k and your forward goes up $150k to be $400k. To upgrade your ruck to a premium you're going to need say $200k. To upgrade your forward you're only going to need $100k. That's the difference dlanod is talking about. So not the cash cow used to upgrade, but the actual player you are upgrading.

Mid priced rucks generally don't move up as much as players in other positions which is why picking premium rucks is a safer option.